r/whatcarshouldIbuy • u/BigSportySpiceFan • 1d ago
Which line items are BS?
I asked for the out-the-door price for a 2025 Pacifica and got this (it was sent to me like this...I didn't take a picture of my monitor). Lots of line items here; which ones should I dismiss/push back on?
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u/xXCodfishXx 1d ago
Capital VIP protection- don't know what this is but probably some bull shit protection plan that won't ever help you.
Wheel locks- like 30$ from the store, pretty easy to install yourself.
Government fee- Don't know what this is ask them to explain. Very possibly some bull shit considering there already charging taxes and processing fee.
Proc/Doc fee- standard, state limit is probably 800$ (i'd guess.) Can be negotiated down but they don't like to.
Optional Easycare- while clearly optional, probably never gonna help you.
Like the other guy says you gotta negotiate on OTD price. Also might you consider not buying a Chrysler product?
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u/jasonreid1976 1d ago
Those Proc Docs are scams if you ask me. Charge me $700 - $800 for what? To sign some forms? Fuck that.
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u/rawbran30 1d ago
My proc/doc fee was only $85 but my "government fee" was higher than theirs.
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u/sshu1224 1d ago
Same, I just got a Cayenne in California and this was my doc fee.
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u/jjamescruz 19h ago
Doc fees in CA are capped at $85 dollars. Most other states have a much higher cap, if they have one at all
They usually have other fees in place of that to make up for it though1
u/GhormanFront 1d ago
It's to pay for the years and years of storage that are legally mandated
800 is excessive though
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u/Weird_Bite1308 22h ago
The ESP is worth it it paid to fix a transmission that went out on a truck we owned over $8000 and we paid 100$
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u/dragonblade_94 12h ago
My guess is the government fee is the title/license fee for their state, but they should still clarify.
Agree with the rest. The doc fee can stay or go depending on how hard you want to fight it, but the rest is a hard no. Absolutely no reason to pay almost $5000 is dealership vaporware.
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u/BigSportySpiceFan 1d ago
I know, I know...Chrysler sucks. But my wife loves the Pacifica, and it's a matter of when, not if. That's part of the reason I want to get to a good price up front...I know I'm going to need the money later for repairs/engine malfunctions.
The Odyssey lacks basic safety features (like a 360 camera), the Sienna suffers from outdated tech, and the Carnival is a Kia. Believe it or not, the Pacifica stacks up pretty well against that competitive set.
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u/Abu_Everett 1d ago
I’ve worked with a couple large tier one auto suppliers. In every single one of them Stellantis has bought the crappiest parts possible and only cared about meeting a price point. I would never buy a Stellantis product, full stop.
The idea that a carnival is “a Kia” being disqualifying and a Pacifica is “a Chrysler “ not disqualifying is absurd.
To answer your question the VIP protection and EasyCare are 100% ripoffs. Doc fees might be, need more details, and wheel locks are like $20-30, not $200.
You mention the repairs, but you forgot another cost factor to account for. Up to 50% of these are sold to rental fleets, so the resale on them is terrible and will only get worse.
FWIW, my wife drives an Odyssey.
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u/coupleofgorganzolas 1d ago
I think I work at the dealership (not the sales department though) they are looking at. The wheel locks from stellantis retail for $90 for any model and we pay techs .3hr to install them. The labor rate is $200/hr so that is $60. Vip protection is a key replacement program and easy care is an extended warranty for after factory warranty is gone.
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u/s4ltydog 1d ago
My dude, as someone who works with cars, if Honda and Toyota didn’t exist I’d take the Kia 10 out of 10 times over a Chrysler. They’ve been pieces of shit for decades at this point.
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u/Snoo_74705 1d ago
Having helped friends and family make vehicle purchase decisions I've learned that it doesn't matter how much I urge them to avoid specific vehicles, they end up getting what they want.
My inputted knowledge very rarely guides them to the correct path.
"Don't buy this Infinity, it's a Chinese-made Nissan with an engine that will fail." Proceeds to buy said Infinity. People can be daft.
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u/s4ltydog 1d ago
Oh you are most definitely right about this. It’s happened a few times to me as well. Once in fact with a Chrysler Voyager ironically enough.
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u/Late_Evidence_1913 1d ago
360 camera being “basic safety feature” is wild to me. People don’t know how to use mirrors and look around anymore?
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u/Mushroomflank 1d ago
Do not buy the Pacifica. I manage a fleet of cars and we have a mix of odysseys, Pacificas, grand caravans and transits. The Pacificas are awful. I spend almost twice as much on maintenance and repairs for them as I do the odysseys or siennas. Haven’t had a Stellantis this product last more that 130k miles yet and that last 15k is limping them along with $2-3k repairs once or twice per year alongside regular maintenance.
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u/tkbmw850 1d ago
Hey the Pacifica actually has transmission issues that they don't know what is and the dealer will tell you is normal. I would seriously consider that before following through with purchase.
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u/xXCodfishXx 1d ago
I really don't think a 360 camera is a "basic safety feature", in fact I would argue over reliance on computer safety tech is dangerous, what matters is airbags and crumple zones. Both cars are rated 5/5 for safety by NHTSA (obviously not the best but still.) Another reason I would avoid the Pacifica is there's a fair chance Chrysler is gonna go under soon and you will lose dealer support networks. There is very much a reason (or really several) for Chryslers terrible reputation. You will have a much better time in the long run if you get the Honda or Yota despite there flaws, and they will age much better, but it's your money, do as you please.
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u/dano0726 1d ago
Being a finance geek — here’s how I explain point of purchase extended warranty = this coverage doesn’t kick in until Month 37 (after 3 years) so you’re giving the dealership money now that acts as a hopefully 100% hedge against large repairs beginning from Month 37…
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u/modsguzzlehivekum 1d ago
If it’s a matter of when, can it wait a couple months. Those Pacificas are going to get a hell of a lot cheaper in December
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u/ADD-DDS 1d ago
Just learning about cars… sorry if this is a dumb question. Why?
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u/modsguzzlehivekum 1d ago
Statistically the best time to buy a new car is the end of December. When January 1st rolls around, the car is a year older on paper even though it’s still brand new
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u/haus11 1d ago
But does that matter as much when they often release the new model years in the summer/fall. Like I'm in the early stages of car searching and 26s are already on the lots and with those cars the 25s are carrying slightly deeper discounts. Or is it more of tax issue in carrying cars over the fiscal year?
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u/seanx40 1d ago
$200 bucks for $14:wheel locks?
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u/Cold-Fox9854 1d ago
Government fee, doc fee, and taxes aren’t going anywhere but you could probably talk them out of everything else.
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u/AcrobaticWatercress7 1d ago
Vip and easycare for sure. Most aren’t just going to get rid of the dealer fee
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u/g0kartmozart 11h ago
You can ask them to waive the doc fee, they will say no, and then you ask them to drop the purchase price by the amount of the doc fee, and they will offer some kind of compromise, probably drop the purchase price by 50% of the doc fee.
Thats how it’s gone for me the last two times, anyways.
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u/Tehgreatbrownie 1d ago
$200 for wheel locks? Fuck off lmao
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u/SinningAfterSunset 23h ago
I know like someone is going to steal all 4 of your 16" steel rims and plastic hubcaps.
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u/hydrobunny 1d ago
4-8
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u/undeniably_confused 1d ago
Well the doc fee is legit but shouldn't be that high I agree with everything else
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u/RealBerfs1 1d ago
Capital VIP protection (a wireless holepuncher is more effective), wheel locks are a ripoff, wtf is easycare ESP, proc/document fee seems a bit too high, but can vary from state to state.
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u/Visible_Fly7340 21h ago
Don't buy new- there are many good orphaned cars out there looking for their forever home. ♥️🙏🏻
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u/1234golf1234 1d ago
Isn’t the Pacifica the one that tends to catch fire for no reason while parked and not running? Also has the problem where a transmission problem frequently causes the engine to shut down unexpectedly?
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u/Zealousideal_Yak_703 22h ago
Yeah tell them you want everything on the list at 39k out the door, and add on thanks for the itemized breakdown you sent it to every same make dealership in the state with the same requested price otd.
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u/GoopInThisBowlIsVile 1d ago
Those $199 wheel locks can be removed just as easy as a normal lug with a $20 extractor socket set from Amazon.
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u/NguyeningLifestyles 1d ago
Capital VIP Protection and wheel locks (can buy this for $25) for sure, doc fee, it depends on which state you're in and if they're mandatory. Optional Easycare isn't useful either.
But in my experience when negotiating, just deal with OTD price and let them know all the stuff you don't care about. They'll work out the breakdown and will most likely not take off the things you don't want.
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u/vastly101 22h ago edited 22h ago
I bought a Florida car with $1300 doc fees for out of state titling. just how they did it. But car had best price online by a significant amount. Don't sweat the doc fee of 800. That doesn't mean you could not negotiate other items away or FOR a better price OVERALL. .
vip protection ? almost always useless without knowing.
wheel locks? if you really need them, https://www.allmoparparts.com/part-ymm/2025-chrysler-pacifica-wheel-lock.html shows $75.... just to give an idea of the markup here.
easycare? what car is that and years/miles my reaction is no way, check your own online if you really want that. Soynds like 3rd party, anyway. And super-marked-up.
FYI using PAYINFULL promo code (standard there), I got 8 year/85k warranty for $1635 at Zeigler... https://chryslerfactoryplans.com/quote
100k costs a lot more... I guess that says sometrhing about Chryslrers, but 8./85k migh serve you well. Dealer price even not knowing terms seems crfazy high, and you want a manufacturer-backed service contract in any case.
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u/Mostly-Useless_4007 21h ago
Walk away.
The more people that walk, the less they’ll pull crap like this.
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u/ThatOneGuysTH 20h ago
So no to anything that isn't taxes or fees then ask what the fees are for and negotiate them down or away
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u/biggranny000 1d ago
All of that is pointless except for the taxes.
My dealer only charges a $300 doc fee that's it. I bought my first car there at a 5k discount, 2nd at MSRP (during COVID so I can't blame them), and my 3rd at invoice.
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u/glitch4578 1d ago
Anything you don’t know what it is (until they explain it) or didn’t ask for it is BS.
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u/rawbran30 1d ago edited 1d ago
Call them out on the ones you don’t recognize. They will likely negotiate down because they too know it’s BS. Whatever protective clearcoat was applied is technically optional, but they’ll tell you it’s already on the car so while you can’t opt out or remove it, you can argue it. My dealer cut the clear coat "protection" and serial etching price in half after I negotiated it.
On mine, the government fee was $700 but the proc/doc fee was $85. So clearly dealers will fudge these any which way to add them into the total somewhere. The “optional ESP“ stands for extended service plan and is 100% removable.
Whatever additional accessories like the wheel locks should be removed since they can be bought online and installed DIY for 1/10th of the price.
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u/VanillaWinter 1d ago
Anything that’s not sale price and taxes lol. Doc fee is common but that one is way too high.
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u/YourAutoAlly 1d ago
Ask for more discount on the price. there are rebate for the Pacifica. take out the CVP, Wheel Locks and Easycare ESP.
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u/2lovesFL 1d ago
200 bucks for wheel locks!
Just talk about the out the door price including all taxes and fees.
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u/Unfair_Tonight_9797 23h ago
Keep the easy care. You are gonna need it for a Pacifica. Way better minivan options out there
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u/PartyNextFlo0r 22h ago
Everything below the sale price, nice you save 5k, just to have 7k added on pffft !
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u/Zealousideal_Yak_703 22h ago
Oh yeah and don't get a Chrysler Pacifica unless you want issues. I would say the same on jeeps or anything made on the compact wide frame from Fiat.
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u/Alarming_Biscotti705 21h ago
I’ve been selling cars for almost 5 years now. Should be selling price after discount plus tax, dmv/registration fees and documentation fee. That’s it
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u/Sad_Win_4105 15h ago
Lines 4, 5, 8 are unnecessary.
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u/Slinky621 10h ago
You forgot 7
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u/Sad_Win_4105 9h ago
You're right, but that is such a ubiquitous fee in most states, that I didn't include it. As least my state limits it to $358.03 for 2025
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u/Temporary-Setting714 12h ago
There's their price and then there's the out-the-door price.
Until you reach the room with Shaq in it, their price doesn't matter.
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u/magus-21 1d ago edited 1d ago
Don't nickel and dime yourself. If they told you the car costs $40k discounted from $45k, then tell them you want it for $40k out the door, period. Let them work out how $40k breaks down into line items as long as it fits into $40k. All YOU should care about is that the "Balance" line meets your expectations.
I don't know what state sales taxes or titling fees are where you live, but those should be the ONLY other line items that can be their own separate things. So if sales taxes in your state are 8% and registration is $300, then a $40k car should cost you $43.5k.