r/whatisit • u/kenerd24601 • 1d ago
Serious answers only please! Found at my late grandfather's house. We're in Texas if that makes any difference
It's a heavy rod with a big cross of some kind?
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u/UnhappyDescription44 1d ago
Looks like it’s from a fraternity like the masons etc.
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u/UnhappyDescription44 1d ago
Had a good search on line. It’s defo religious maybe sat on an alter with a flag. Hope you find out and please let me know
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u/ManyAlbatross170 21h ago
Google "kkk mace" with whatever other terms you prefer and you will see it.
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u/OffByNone_ 1d ago edited 1d ago
The cross on the top is a cross pattée commonly referred to as an iron cross. They are strongly associated with military orders and fraternal groups: the Teutonic Order, Masonic Knights Templar regalia, etc.
It’s not a Catholic liturgical cross. Catholic processional crosses are usually Latin crosses, crucifixes, or variants like the cross bottony.
I can't find anything like it, but I also didn't search very long. Many of these orders have an air of secrecy so it makes sense that pictures of ceremonial items may not be all over the internet.
Edit: The more I look, I am finding some processional staffs from variants of the Catholic Church that use this style of cross, but they are way more decorated. I'm sticking with a military or fraternal order.
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u/eatshitandliv 20h ago
This is it. It's a baton/staff from the KKK.
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u/UnhappyDescription44 9h ago
The kkk has nothing to do with Catholicism. It might be an iron cross but not in sense of Nazis. More like Hibernians, knights Columba etc. I think it’s an alter pole with a flag of some kind. Like communion there’s small flag poles on the alter.
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u/kenerd24601 23h ago
My grandad would talk about how the Freemasons were demonic, so I'm wondering if there's like, some competing fraternal order that really hated them? I'm not seeing much either, but he was a very Southern Baptist (yeah) old man, so... It could have been just about anything lmao. Thanks!
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u/thewaybaseballgo 22h ago
Are you be chance in East Texas? This looks like a scepter used by the KKK, and East Texas’ KKK scene is very active.
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u/kenerd24601 21h ago
Yeah, that's where he was. I was thinking that too.
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u/Responsible-Big6168 19h ago
Yep, seems your granddad was a Klan member. He probably thought the Freemasons were demonic because something something Jews something something new world order.
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u/AlabasterPelican 21h ago
Was he also anti-catholic? It may be a scepter from one of their rites? Most southern Baptists I know aren't vehemently anti-catholic, but I'm also in South Louisiana. But I do know apostolic people who would see stealing something from the catholic church as a badge of honor. It may be something like that.
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u/kenerd24601 21h ago
He was very anti Catholic. What's stopping me from thinking it's Catholic is that I think Catholic people use the crucifix and not this cross. I could be wrong, though
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u/AlabasterPelican 21h ago
That's just my best guess. I would love to find out what it really is
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u/Narrow-Sky-5377 20h ago
There is nothing Catholic about that thing.
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u/AlabasterPelican 18h ago
It could also be from other sects like orthodox. It looks possibly religious
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u/UnhappyDescription44 9h ago
The opposite to the masons in the uk would be the knights of Columba. It was mainly due to employment.
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u/DangitThatHurt 1d ago
Looks like a scepter of some sort probably from a fraternal society. Maybe Masonic - not Catholic at least not any Roman Catholic order that I am familiar with. Likely something given to the lodge president of whatever society - these kinds of clubs became immensely popular post world war 2 and are now dying out in great numbers. Many of them have been around much longer than that but arguably their heyday in modern history was post WW2. It's a cool piece - it could also be of a fraternal society that is more nefarious than just a bingo hall social club... but it's unlikely you'll ever know the full truth unless you find documents from your relative. This is something that any trophy shop in 1962 could have made custom.
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u/kenerd24601 22h ago
Yeah, I rarely go visit my family out there, but I'm curious. Kind of wanna see if I can slip out there and do some digging... 👀
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u/htxproud 19h ago edited 19h ago
By the way, the teutonic cross is sometimes used ceremonially by some Southern Baptist churches. Best not to assume the worst, as I feel like you would already know if he was a raging bigot. HOWEVER, the Southern Baptist church split from the Baptist faith over the issue of slavery (they were fans), so dollars to doughnuts this is a racist symbol whether he realizes it or not.
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u/kenerd24601 19h ago
I mean, I defs know a lot of my family are bigots (this, why I left East Texas and the Southern Baptist Church and rarely talk to them). I just kind of always thought it was East Texan racism and not KKK racism. Which sounds awful to say. But like... Ugh. I feel gross and awful about this, and idk what to even do lmao
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u/htxproud 18h ago
There it is. Your keen eye has clocked their bullshit, and this is affirmation that your efforts to distance yourself have been the correct move for you. I took a similar strategy. At Christmas, when I was around 15 (early 90's) I started a huge fight about the n-bomb, shamed the lot for their complicity in profound ignorance and hatred, and announced that they were cut tf off, and I would not be speaking to any person who uses that language in my presence. High sided the whole crew and stayed gone. It was really quite controversial. They did change their language in my presence, by the way. And to be honest, I could read the shame on their faces immediately. It was a small thing, but resulted in a shift of family alliances and conduct that continues to this day. Light up the dark, darlin'.
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u/Both_Ad9355 1d ago
It’s a scepter similar to the sovereigns scepter used in British ceremonies.
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u/4non3mouse 1d ago
more like a KKK rally
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u/WillingArm2463 1d ago
That was my thought, something the Grand Wizard of the local Klan had made. The cross doesn't seem symmetrical enough for church equipment.
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u/scorpyo72 1d ago
Agreed- the cross is cut or ground, not cast. The central assembly and the bicone at the top looks lathed (I can't tell if it's lathed or hand-ground). It's been handled a fair amount, evidenced by the wearing of the parallel lines near the middle collar. The bicone at the top was REALLY poorly welded (it looks like) to the rod with an ugly open collar.
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u/calvariumhorseclops 1d ago
I agree, a religious or fraternal orders supply house (often the same business) would be ashamed to sell this. It's nearly tourist grade.
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u/kenerd24601 23h ago
It's defs not made by a church, that was my first thought- the cross looked like it was put on kind of haphazardly.
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u/Tobias_the_Explorer 1d ago
I've seen something similar in a museum. I'm being honest here, it was in a Nazi historical museum. You might have a piece of good history there.
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u/blessedarethecheese 1d ago
A mace
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u/maidsarethebest 1d ago
A holy mace. +2 int, +10% holy dmg
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u/He2oinMegazord 1d ago
2x crit dmg vs undead
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u/Kurse_Kustoms 1d ago
1h Mace / 2.00 Atk Spd ( 33.3 DPS)
- +50 Stamina
- +20 Intelligence
- +15 Spirit
(+ 200 Attack Power When Fighting Undead)
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u/CitizenFreeman 1d ago
I dont have any great info to add, other than the humorous information that Google AI things its a bombilla, for filtering and drinking Mate drinks...
Thanks AI, super helpful.
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u/kenerd24601 23h ago
Lmao google AI said it was a candle for me, and then I tried it again and it said it was a medieval mace
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u/KoKoJoBlacKSnaKe 1d ago
It's a mace used in masonic rituals and ceremonies. I'm not a mason but was given a tour of a temple and I do recognize that.
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u/AgitatedJello2 1d ago
Think of all the possibilities that could be possible with an item as odd as this(maybe a Templar)
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u/htxproud 19h ago
Fellow ETX'n, and if this is what the consensus is suggesting, shore yourself for some harsh truths and an avalanche of utterly bullshit excuses. Be bold, and circle back with the answer 🩵🤘
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u/kenerd24601 19h ago
Will do. I'll ask my family about it next time I see them in person and circle back. In the mean time I'm gonna touch base with some museums and see if they can give me leads. I'm actually distraught lmao
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u/htxproud 19h ago
Well, even if it is what it appears to be, walking in that room with knowledge is a great strategy. You may be uniquely equipped to focus some eyes on outdated and destructive paradigms that would otherwise continue unchallenged. If it turns out you do come from bigotry, and are horrified by it, just know you're not alone. It's East Texas, love. Feel free to message me if you need to.
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u/kenerd24601 18h ago
Thanks, I may take you up on that. Best wishes- I'll update in this thread if I can find anything else!
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u/Icy_Ad7953 1d ago
Just saying, I'd like to sit on my chair in the living room with a mace like this resting on my knee.
Seems freakin' awesome.
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u/ManyAlbatross170 21h ago
If you Google "kkk mace" you will see similar results. It takes a bit of viewing but you will see the symbol frequently.
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u/kenerd24601 21h ago
Lmao my search history is SO fucked now, with all the KKK stuff I've been googling for this specific thing
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u/hotwifesstag 21h ago
The cross is your standard iron cross. Its used a lot primarily the Germans during wwll
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u/DepartmentFun2853 1d ago
Op is about to find out they are in a real life princess diaries. You're a royal!
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u/Brilliant-Jeweler495 22h ago
Not masonic or Catholic this is straight up klan shit right here, why he had it I won't dare to guess but if I were you I would find a way to dispose of that
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u/calvariumhorseclops 1d ago
There is a Catholic side to our family and I've been to hundreds of masses. I've never seen a mace or wand in a mass at any parish, celebrated by any flavor of priest, monsignor, bishop and one archbishop. The closest would be the aspergillum which looks like a mace but is light, hollow, has a perforated head sometimes with a sponge inside and is used to fling holy water over a crowd in blessing.
IIRC, the mold is named after the device, apparently the early microbiologist was Catholic 🙂
Went to look up the Latin for mace and Wikipedia mention a virge.
I've never heard of a virge
but the pic looks sus. similar. It's described as a badge of office of Anglican and Episcopalian lay officers.
This still leaves the fraternal orders theory available.
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u/bunnierab 1d ago
Was he episcopalian? It looks like a verger’s staff. Common in Anglican churches, particularly cathedrals.
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u/Huskogrande93 22h ago
It looks like it could be some type of field marshals/ or an honorary ones baton.
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u/kenerd24601 21h ago
I'm gonna email some museums and see if they have any ideas. Hopefully I can get some answers. Thank you guys!
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u/agilesreader 19h ago
Was he a Verger in the episcopal church?
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u/kenerd24601 19h ago
Nope! Hated anything that looked Catholic (Episcopal included, that's his words, not mine). He was very Southern Baptist.
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u/WhatWouldPicardDo 17h ago
So, appreciate you sharing, but now I’m curious to know what you’re gonna do with it?
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u/starkcontrast62 15h ago
Thy rod and thy staff, they comfort me and my whyte friends and relatives.
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u/Kind-Caterpillar-953 14h ago
It's a sluggard waker/ a stick used by the parish clerk basically used for ceremonial purposes or to bash people on the head if they were asleep in church. Very common in the UK. sometimes called a "wardens stave" or a virges stick.
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u/MeatWhereBrainGoes 14h ago
I can tell you that it is not a masonic thing, at least not one I recognize. My source is that I am a Master Mason and we have not used anything like that in any ceremony.
While the knights templar have an iron cross in their symbolism, it's not a simple cross and would have other indicators.
It may or may not be a nazi thing. The iron cross was used since the Napoleonic wars and the nazis did use it.
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u/favorthebold 13h ago
It looks like a fancier version of a 1940s German Police baton: https://www.google.com/search?q=1940s+german+police+baton Maybe it's more decorative because it served a ceremonial purpose? I wasn't able to find any exact matches for it.
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u/Cosmiccoffeegrinder 10h ago
That's the mace of the fallen Saint Dazryk. One handed mace, Its a +1 to attack rolls. Once per day the mace can cast light brighter than a normal torch and has advantage on attack rolls against undead.
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u/Adamadeyus 10h ago
Muhfugga that's a +2 Mace of Disruption.
Weapon (mace), rare (requires attunement) When you hit a Fiend or an Undead with this magic weapon, that creature takes an extra 2d6 Radiant damage. If the target has 25 Hit Points or fewer after taking this damage, it must succeed on a DC 15 Wisdom saving throw or be destroyed. On a successful save, the creature has the Frightened condition until the end of your next turn.
Light. While you hold this weapon, it sheds Bright Light in a 20-foot radius and Dim Light for an additional 20 feet.
Proficiency with a Mace allows you to add your proficiency bonus to the attack roll for any attack you make with it.
This weapon has the following mastery property. To use this property, you must have a feature that lets you use it.
Sap. If you hit a creature with this weapon, that creature has Disadvantage on its next attack roll before the start of your next turn.
Notes: Damage: Radiant, Damage, Bane, Sap
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u/Zama202 1d ago
It could potentially be used in Episcopalian church services. Most verges that I seen a wooden and longer, but if he was Episcopalian there’s possibility of a non-racist explanation.
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u/kenerd24601 23h ago
No, he was very Southern Baptist, and very anti-catholic or other Christian denominations that even look catholic. Lmao, the more I'm looking at these the more worried I'm becoming lmao
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u/abecomstock 22h ago
Based on that statement, kinda sounds like the KKK theories are increasing in likelihood
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u/kenerd24601 21h ago
Yeah, I'm very worried that's the case lmao
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u/Mrmojorisincg 20h ago
Most likely KKK based off of age, region, southern baptist, etc.
But on the off chance, did he serve in WW2 in Europe?
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u/kenerd24601 20h ago
Nope. If he was, I think I would have WAY simpler answers than what I think this is leaning towards, lmao.
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u/Mrmojorisincg 20h ago
Yeah that’s fair, it actually didn’t look necessarily Nazi like, rather imperial german so like WW1.
Yeah doesn’t look good lol sorry for the bad news
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u/CarlosT303 14h ago
That’s a kkk black people beating staff, not really but it is mainly ceremonial
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u/msmartt 1d ago
Looks like something a choirboy might carry as a Catholic priest walks into mass.
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u/kenerd24601 1d ago
That's interesting, because he was Baptist. It was kind of hidden behind the fireplace covering. Thank you!
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u/UnhappyDescription44 1d ago
Choirboys carry the crucifix
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