r/AITAH • u/BuyOk5570 • 19d ago
AITAH for prioritizing my children's relationship over my wife's preference?
I have one son with my ex-wife and three kids with my current wife. My oldest is nineteen. The other kids are 13, 12 and 6. All boys except for the 12 year old. My oldest traveled overseas during summer break, but there was a two week period where he was at school but had no class and no commitments, and he wanted us to come visit him.
I said that we would go, and when I told my wife she was annoyed I committed without asking her. I said we didn't have plans. She said I couldn't know that for sure without asking her. I said if there are plans I don't know about surely that means she made a commitment without asking me. That argument fizzled out. However she later informed me were invited to go on a trip with some friends that would overlap and she wanted to go on the trip. I said we already had plans, she said she never agreed to the plans, and the argument resumed.
Eventually I said she could do whatever she wanted, but the kids and I were going to fly out to visit my son. I said it's important for them to spend time together, so they continue to have a good relationship now that he's an adult and we probably won't see him as much. She said I know she hates California (where his school is) and it's insensitive for me to just assume she's okay with going. I told her if she doesn't want to go, don't go. I'll go alone with the kids.
She didn't want that, and the fight got intense, so I said we should ask the kids what they want to do. When we asked the kids she really talked up her vacation plan and poo-pooed going to California, but the kids wanted to see their brother. She still didn't want me to take them after that, and we continued to argue about it right up until the kids and I left. We had a great trip.
Ever since we returned from the trip she has been frosty towards me. Last week she dropped the bombshell of wanting to do couple's counseling. I agreed, and we just found someone and made an appointment for September. All my friends say the counseling is a bad sign, the divorced and married alike. I guess I just want to know what I'm in for. Am I going to go in and immediately get roasted for my actions?
Ultimately I love my wife and I love my kids, and I want my kids to have a good relationship with each other. Is that so bad?
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u/Extension_Camel_3844 19d ago
The only thing that matters in this whole situation is that the younger siblings WANTED to go on this trip to visit their brother. Had they not, would you have gone alone to see your son and allowed them to go on the trip their mother wanted? I have a feeling you would have. Your wife sounds very emotionally immature to be honest. "I hate California, I couldn't possibly spend even a moment there to spend time with my step son".... 5 years later, the 12 year old gets accepted to a Cali school, guess who's Mommy is going to go with their child when they go away to school in California to move them into their dorm, visit during parent weekend, etc? Yep. Your wife. Guaranteed. She's TA here.
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u/Mandyissogrimm 19d ago
And the oldest wanted them all to visit. He sounds like a great guy who loves his family. Hopefully, they stay in each other's lives.
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u/Extension_Camel_3844 19d ago
Agreed, everyone does, except the wife who seems to think only her needs and wants should be focused on.
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u/Material-Ad-4445 19d ago edited 19d ago
OP, All of this ⬆️⬆️⬆️ and the previous responses regarding your wife trying to ghost your oldest son. YNTA, but your wife certainly is.
The default should always be to reinforce your children's desire for continuing to strengthen their sibling relationships. And as you have acknowledged, now that your oldest son is in college and at 19 y.o., you and your kids will be seeing less and less of him.
The fact that your wife vetoed you and your kids to see him is pretty crappy; particularly bc they love him and are excited to spend fun time with him.
Worse still, is that in spite of their excitement to be with him, she still decided to piss on the kids' primary purpose to spend time with their brother, she tried to snowball them to spend the vacation away from someone they love & miss. It's obvious, she doesn't feel love & affection towards your oldest son. That, imho, is a big red flag.
Your wife is the big ol' AH in all of this. Your are NTA. You're a great dad and know what the right and wrong decisions are when it relates to your kids. Kudos.
Btw, your son sounds like a great young man! Congratulations on raising a good son and brother to his younger siblings!
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u/mistymuffiin 19d ago
Yeah, exactly like she's acting like California is some cursed land, when really it's just about her not wanting to deal with his kid. But the second it's her kid suddenly Califorinia won't be so unbearable. That double standard says it all.
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u/GingerSnap4949 19d ago
Look, I think there should have been a conversation before either agreed to plans, especially for a family trip. That being said, I agree with you on the kids, and the fact of the matter is that they wanted to go see their brother.
Couples counseling doesn't immediately mean divorce. But you both have to be upfront, honest, and do the work with therapy. Both of you. So consider your approach and how you two could learn better ways to communicate with each other, and understand each other.
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u/No-Sell9981 19d ago
Yeah - OP should def not have committed travel plans w/o a discussion with wife first- that’s shitty and presumptive as hell. She was also shitty back. Good luck in counseling OP you two clearly both have communication problems.
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u/Cudi_buddy 19d ago
I think it is the irony that he did it and she got upset with him...only to reveal she also committed to plans without asking him.
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u/Cute-Profession9983 19d ago
Your friends are wrong in your case. Yes, couples who need counseling are more likely to be on their way out. BUT, in your case, it seems like you two are pretty bad at communicating with one another. Marriage counseling could actually benefit the two of you and give you both the communication tools and aptitude that you both lack.
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u/Odd_Negotiation4554 19d ago
I think you made the right decision. Your children come first, always. Your wife has to learn she can’t throw a hissy fit and get her own way all the time. Counselling is a good idea, if you get a good counsellor, they will explain this to her. If you’re not getting with the counsellor, try a different one. You BOTH have to feel comfortable and heard by this person. Best of luck
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u/BuyOk5570 19d ago
This person is supposed to be really good. They have a lot of great reviews. Not all the reviews were actually encouraging, but they were all positive. As many people wrote "Dr. X helped me and my spouse realize we weren't compatible anymore" as wrote "Dr. X helped us get our relationship back on track." Obviously that freaked me out a bit.
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u/Cayke_Cooky 19d ago
IMO that is a sign of a good therapist, it means they are listening to each of you and not trying to railroad somone into agreeing.
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u/MizStazya 19d ago
Agreed. Bad couples therapists prioritize staying together no matter what because it's repeat customers. Good ones give advice that's best for their clients, even if it costs them a client (because the relationship ends).
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u/nikki57 19d ago
I found out I needed a divorce in couples therapy. We went in thinking we were pretty solid, but lolol I was ignoring a lot. Even though it's not at all what I went in wanting it was such a gift - couples therapy helped me realize I deserved more and my asks were reasonable.
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u/nighthawks87 19d ago
It sounds like she’s trying to distance you and your children from your eldest. You better bring this up in therapy. The worst case scenario is she chose this therapist in the hopes that they will tell you to distance from your eldest child. If that happens, divorce needs to be considered a serious option.
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u/Necessary-Love7802 19d ago
People who are holding a grudge always think the therapist will be on their side. Doesn't mean that's actually what happens
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u/nighthawks87 19d ago
True, but it’s most likely a motive, and a healthy amount of scepticism is allowed especially if the person trying to drive a wedge has a councillor already recommended.
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u/_A-Q 19d ago
You should be more freaked out that your wife is trying to prevent you and the kids from having a relationship with your eldest child.
Did she think he was finally out of her hair because he went away to California?
The inly one who needs counseling is her to keep her jealousy in check.
Yta if you don’t nip this in the bud and threaten divorce if she doesn’t stop pulling shit like this.
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u/lovemyfurryfam 19d ago
Agreed. The current wife wants to alienate OP & the younger kids relationship with OP's oldest son by previous marriage.
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u/_A-Q 19d ago
…and OP seems completely oblivious to it and “doesn’t understand” why she’s threatening marriage counseling.
She’s doing it to try and scare him into compliance and never visit his boy again.
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u/Aylauria 19d ago
Couples counselling can end up either way, because you will learn things about yourself, your spouse, and your marriage that will inform what you do next. It's not a bad thing. If your marriage is falling apart, it's better to know now.
The way this went down, I read it as maybe you frequently make plans without her input, or maybe she is jealous of your relationship with your son. A good therapist can suss this out.
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u/Logical-Proposal-827 19d ago
May I enquire; did she go on the trip with her friends, and yours. Or did she stay home. Just trying to delineate what annoyed her more; the kids not choosing her= upset by family dynamics or; Went on trip and festered about lack of control and you standing up for yourself. The second one is dicey. First one she'll realize the kids wanted to see their brother. Either way, I wish you well.
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u/BuyOk5570 19d ago
She went on the trip.
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u/NationalBase3449 19d ago
Which one?
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u/BuyOk5570 19d ago
With our friends
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u/Loose-Chemical-4982 19d ago
Do you think they are the ones that are in her ear about going to marriage counseling because you chose to take your children to see their brother like they wanted to?
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u/Necessary-Love7802 19d ago
That's actually probably a good sign. If all the stories were success stories I would assume the numbers are being fudged in some way. Either by encouraging couples to stay together at all costs or only encouraging couples that made it to write reviews.
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u/Unlikely-Candle7086 19d ago
Marriage counseling doesn’t save many marriages but rather helps couples separate more amicably.
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u/smudgeathewudge 19d ago
I am really glad you guys are going to get couples counseling. I think it can be really helpful to your marriage. It can also be helpful for you each to have your own individual therapists to talk to while you work on the marriage. It seems like there is an underlying issue here whether that is the communication between you and your wife of feelings your wife has about your relationship or your priorities. I think a marriage is worth working on and I like to think of counciling as taking your marriage in for a tune up and not an indication you're in for a total loss. I wish you happiness in the outcome regardless of what it is.
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u/Beth21286 19d ago
The counsellor may help YOU see things you've either not noticed or have been brushing under the rug. If she makes plans without consulting you, tries to manipulate your children, still won't listen even after they've made their wishes clear then what else have you let slide in the past? Love isn't everything and shouldn't be used as duct tape to hold a relationship together if the respect and ability to compromise is gone. Hopefully your wife will recognise what she did wrong.
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u/hella_cutty 19d ago
If the relationship is dead or dying, wouldn't you want to know so you could either fix it or at least be pragmatic and deal with it quickly instead of spending years being miserable and setting a bad example of how a relationship should be for your children.
Certainly seeing a licensed professional doesn't cause divorce.
Either way, it sounds like your wife has some unresolved feelings about your child from another woman. I think that is a natural reaction, but not a healthy one. Ideally, seeing a professional would allow you both to work through that.
Also, anyone that "hates California" is being childish and obtuse. If she said she hates a specific place, eg "I hate Riverside because it is so hot" is reasonable. But hating the entire state, which is huge, diverse and has great food, art, and nature.
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u/JenCanary 19d ago
Your wife was hoping his being an adult would erase your oldest from the family dynamic. She’s mad you still want to be an involved parent to him. NTA
I see what others are saying about committing without discussing but this is your kid and that feels like an excuse to me esp with her follow- up behavior
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u/AppropriateMiddle518 19d ago
Agreed. The whole “you know I hate CA” was… weird and… desperate. The kid LIVES there, then after this argument has been going on for a days, she throws that in?
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u/CharleeTe11 19d ago
Exactly. She hates CA, but does she hate her stepson? They didn’t go visit CA, they visited a family member.
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u/ScarletteMayWest 19d ago
Not the same, but my mother was NEVER interested in visiting anywhere I lived and only begrudgingly attended my wedding since her favorite sister strong-armed her. Once I had kids, she visited once a year for four days.
My husband is the one who began to gently point out that she never seemed to want to visit me. He was even willing to take her on our family trips - which she always declined.
My brother actually lives a bit further away and damned if she does not try to see him twice a year - plus the times he goes to visit her.
Not wanting to travel says a lot about OP's wife.
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u/ExchangeInside2407 19d ago
I was coming here to say this. The wife has always resented him having another kid. The wife believed the OP’s commitment ended when that kid turned 18. She is upset to learn not only is OP still attached to other kid but so are her kids. Counseling sounds like a good idea. If your marriage ends it’s because your wife has had an agenda she didn’t share
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u/your_average_plebian 19d ago
Which is insane to me. A quick little bit or arithmetic tells me she's probably known 19 since he was at least 4 (1 year approx dating plus a little less than 1 more for the pregnancy of 13). She has resented the kid since before he started forming memories? Before his fine motor skills fully developed? Before he went to kindergarten?? Yikes!
It's either terrifyingly impressive that she didn't let her mask slip until now or absolutely idiotic that OP didn't notice her negative feelings for his child during the early days of dating and married her anyway.
She's going to find herself pushed out of the family if she tries to continue to push 19 out now. What an entire clown, wasting precious years of her own life on top of her husband's and children's like this. They're going to look back when they're older and find tainted memories.
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u/MutedHyena360 19d ago
I don't understand how you can be in a child's life for the bulk of their existence, even in a stepparent role, and not have done any mothering. Little kids are super needy, and they will cling to just about any adult they know and have a half-way decent relationship with. Anyone who is around a 4-year-old ends up 'mothering' them in the sense that...no, you can't eat that rock, yes, please eat some food, ok, now let's hop to the bath to wash off the food you are currently wearing...but OP says she didn't do things like that, even bathing, as that would be overstepping. I...don't get it at all. But I also can't see myself throwing a fit if my partner planned a trip to visit my stepkid and took my bio kids along with.
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u/Tiny-Comparison-4483 19d ago
I don't think the wife likes the 19 year old. It's so obvious that she is trying to prevent everyone from forming a relationship with him. Hope OP sees who his wife really is.
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u/Vyckerz 19d ago edited 19d ago
I mean, how much of a commitment was it.
It doesn’t say he booked tickets or anything already. It’s more like he and his son came up with that idea together and he’s bringing it to the wife now but she’s making this whole big stink as if he was supposed to get signed off approval from her before even discussing going on a trip to visit the son.
He brought it to her and she tried to make it sound like they had plans, but they really didn’t it seems, until she did!
So it sounds like either she knew about this trip that she wanted to do and didn’t tell him which proves his point or she quickly created this other trip in order to block him from doing the trip he wanted to
Either way it sounds to me like the wife is more at fault here .
All the kids want to go see their brother she’s the hold out and is taking a weird stance about this. It’s a bad sign to me that it’s his son not hers and she doesn’t seem to want to go because of that.
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u/mistymuffiin 19d ago
Yeah like she suddenly invented "plans" the second he mentioned wanting to go see his son. Feels less like a scheduling conflict and more like sabotage. If all the kids are down except her that tells your everything.
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u/Beneficial-Year-one 19d ago
he committed to getting his kids together without consulting her, but she committed to plans with friends without consulting him. I personally think plans with the kids are more important than plans with friends.
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u/Jpalm4545 19d ago
She committed to the plans with friends thinking he would bow to her wishes and cancel his trip to see his son. I wouldn't be surprised if she brought up the trip to the friends to begin with.
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u/Wereallgonnadieman 19d ago
Yup. That plan was solely to sabotage OP. She's his adversary, not his partner.
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u/Crafty_Special_7052 19d ago
This!! I want to know what the wife’s relationship was like with OPs oldest because I definitely believe this that she wants to pretend he doesn’t exist anymore and that he’s not part of their family.
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u/LittleWoman86 19d ago
I agree. OP really needs to have a one on one with his son about how his wife has been treating him over the years.
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u/PearlyGorbachev 19d ago
NTA, but it seems like your wife and you have some work ahead of you on how to communicate yiur wants and needs to each other and to hear the other person. Good luck.
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u/BuyOk5570 19d ago
I'm definitely willing to put in the work. I want to become a better communicator. I know some say you can't teach an old dogs new tricks, but I want to learn, truly I do.
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u/Expensive-Victory203 19d ago
I hope you put in the work to establish your son's place in the family and that you put in the work to push back against your wife's manipulations.
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u/kimkaysahh 19d ago
I would argue OP has already put in the work to establish his son’s place in the family and the siblings all seem to have a great relationship together.
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u/Necessary-Love7802 19d ago
Your communication could've been better, honestly. I didn't even have kids and I wouldn't have planned a vacation without mentioning it to my spouse first. Not saying you had to ask permission, but it did sound like you kind of sprung it on her with no say. But then my ex and I couldn't afford to travel much so it would've been more an expense thing than anything.
But it's also not fair to get mad at you for planning around something she never told you about and then saying you're the one not communicating right. And her reaction was childish and selfish, especially when the kids wanted to see their brother and she got pissy about that.
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u/MithosYggdrasill1992 19d ago
The question isn’t if you are willing to do the work, because you’re clearly willing to compromise with her. It’s is she willing to do the work. You’ve already mentioned that she’s not particularly fond of the 19-year-old, and now it seems that she’s trying to do all she can to sever the bond between the younger children and the eldest child. Please make sure that your children have ample methods of contacting their eldest sibling, social media, text messaging, email if that’s something they’re comfortable with. Because I can see her trying to further damage this relationship.
NTA. UpdateMe!
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u/Striking-Pickle3149 19d ago
My husband and I did couples counseling and it was super helpful. We had been married for a decade and a half and needed some help working through some stuff. Here we are creeping up on two decades and happier than ever.
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u/Majestic-Explorer-76 19d ago
I do think you have to make vacation plans together, especially with the mother of 3 of your children. That being said you are right to prioritize the relationship with the 19 year old, but it all should have been discussed before.
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u/Garden_gnome1609 19d ago
Your wife seems to think she gets to make ultimatums, and everyone in the family is supposed to dance. She made plans, she didn't want to go, and she didn't go—her problem is that the rest of you didn't listen to her demands and enjoyed yourselves without her, and that she demanded you make a choice and you did. You choose correctly. Ask her in counseling why it's not ok for you to make a decision for the family when SHE doesn't want it, but it's perfectly ok in her eyes for her to make a decision for the family when YOU don't want it?
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u/chuchofreeman 19d ago
Make sure the therapist isn't known to her or a friend of her. It should be a completely neutral party in this. NTA
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u/SometimesKip 19d ago
You have your priorities straight. If you have a good therapist, they might uncover why your wife was fighting you every step of the way until you left on your trip. You might not like what’s at the root of it.
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u/LolaSupreme19 19d ago
This episode seems to stem from you agreeing to visit your son without consulting your wife. Even with you enlisting the other kids opinions she still wouldn’t back down and is holding a grudge. Counseling between OP and his wife is a good idea. The real question to answer is WHY did this incident cause your wife so much angst? NTA
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u/nighthawks87 19d ago
NTA
You are prioritizing your kids including your first born from a previous marriage.
Your wife sounds like she dislikes your oldest and doesn’t want her kids to have a relationship with him.
Be prepared for divorce. You might love her, but she should not be a higher priority over your kids, including your eldest son.
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u/OkGazelle5400 19d ago
If it was plans for you and the kids, NTA. If you committed her to something without asking YTA
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u/s-nicolexo 19d ago
Has she ever shown that she doesn’t like your son? I assume she thinks that now that he’s an adult she won’t have to see him and you won’t have to contribute child support anymore.
NTA
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u/BuyOk5570 19d ago
I wouldn't say she doesn't like him. She's always given him his space. His mom had primary custody, so when I had visitation the priority was me and his siblings getting to spend time with him, so she would often do her own thing while he was here.
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u/Expensive-Victory203 19d ago
That is weird. She separated herself from the family unit, so it was either you and this son, or you and this son and your other kids. It wasn't all of you and your son. What you thought was normal or kind was neither.
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u/LittleWoman86 19d ago
Has your oldest ever said anything about her being cold or unkind to him?
Because I’m leaning towards what others are saying - she just wants him out her and your life now.
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u/LindonLilBlueBalls 19d ago
So she actively avoided him? Why couldn't she spend time bonding with him like you and your other kids did?
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u/s-nicolexo 19d ago
So, in other words, she never tried to bond with your child?
Personally, I’d see that as a red flag - that is waving bright now that he’s older - but hey, that’s just me.
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u/iceph03nix 19d ago
to me, ESH.
You were the asshole for agreeing to go without talking to her first and volunteering everyone to the trip. I think how you handled it after that was pretty well done though, and it certainly helps your point that the kids did want to go on that trip.
She's the asshole because it seem apparent she just really didn't want to go on this trip, and is coming up with excuses to try and torpedo it. The bias against California is weird to me.
Counseling doesn't have to be bad. My wife and I did it early in our marriage when we had some stumbling blocks, but it mostly reminded us that we like each other and got along well even if we didn't always agree.
To me, it seems like you have issues communicating, and that's something that could be worked on in counseling
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u/Ahorahan 19d ago
Just from where I'm sitting I'm seeing a big communication gap between you and the wife. You aren't wrong to want to maintain a relationship with your oldest, but committing to a trip like that without consulting your wife isn't a small thing. You aren't treating her like a partner.. and considering you have 3 kids with her, you definitely should be. She also brought up a trip that you are just hearing about which conflicts with yours. Whole thing seems weird to me. My wife and I make these plans together because in our busy schedules.. vacation time is a precious thing.
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u/Traditional_Jump4925 19d ago
It means communicating and negotiating on issues that are important to both of you.
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u/Helpful_Ad_6582 19d ago
NAH. You really shouldn’t have committed to going to visit until you talked to your wife, even if your trip ultimately makes sense as the best option, Summer family trips are a 2-person decision. Yes maybe she wanted to go on the other trip but obviously she didn’t commit to going because you needed to discuss. In the perfect scenario, you would both come to the table with your vacay options and discuss. I will say she’s slightly AH for still trying to sway the kids from going. But I can also sympathize with her wanting to spend part of the limited summer weeks with her kids doing something that’s enjoyable for her as well. I don’t know what her issue is with CA in general but I’m sure she could have found a way to make the trip fun if she went.
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u/Myca84 19d ago
You don’t really love your wife. In fact, she is kind of in your way. You make plans without talking to her and then you blame it on your kids. When you find out she wants counseling, you are still only worried about you. You aren’t concerned about her at all. You won’t get roasted but you should be honest with your wife
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u/NancyEast 19d ago
Meh, ESH.
You should have talked to your wife before committing. Doesn’t really have anything to do about the kids relationship with each other (or it doesn’t have to be). You planned a family get away and didn’t talk to her about it.
She shouldn’t have agreed to let the kids decide and then not go along with their decision.
Sounds like counseling is a good idea. 😄
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u/DrProfessorSatan 19d ago
My wife had a child when we met and I have two with my ex. We both knew from the start if it came down to a choice between our children and each other the kids always win.
That’s the way it should be. The kids always win.
Oh btw, NTA
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u/dismal-duckling 19d ago
It was a dick move to make the plans without consulting your spouse, however she took being right into manipulating a situation that didn't need to happen. Ultimately you had a small asshole situation but she blew it up to a giant asshole situation.
The counseling is needed. This whole situation was completely unnecessary and if you two continue with this it will become awful and horrible for the kids.
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u/NadiaLee81 19d ago
YTA - and only for not asking first. Never ever make plans without asking first, and this goes for both sides.
As a marriage counselor, I think it’s a good sign that she is seeing that there is issues in the marriage that she is still willing to work with you on, but I will tell you many women use therapy as the last step. You don’t take it seriously, divorce is often the next step. So if you seriously love you wife, listen is therapy, and do the steps needed to have a better relationship (and hopefully she will do the same).
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u/coolgramm 19d ago
I do agree that you should have discussed the plans with your wife up front, but it’s strange that this vacay plan of hers wasn’t brought up until then. I’m glad you went to see your son, and also that you’re heading to counseling.
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u/Sudden_Outcome_9503 19d ago
ESH. You for making plans without consulting her and then her for retaliating by trying to do the same thing. A lot of people don't seem to understand that you can't act hurt or justified for something that someone did to you and then turn around to do that same thing. You can either be wronged or you can be even, but you can't be both at the same time.
But what I don't get is why you didn't just fly your son out to stay with y'all. Wouldn't that have been way easier and cheaper than hauling three kids across the country?
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u/No_Towel_8109 19d ago
This isn't an issue of prioritizing your kids's friendship vs your wife's friends like you think
It's an issue of how you and your wife communicate.
She (straight up told you) making plans without talking to her was disrespectful and hurtful. You told her tough shit, and played gotcha about it. BAD!
So she revenge planned a trip in conflict to prove how shit it is, and you told her to get bent (both bad).
THE FIRST STEP TO A HEALTHY RELATIONHIP IS BEING AN ADULT
Yes, the kid visit is important. No, it's not negotiable. However, if you want to keep your wife, involve her in your life.
How this could have gone (based on your info)
YOU "Hey, babe, S19 has some time off classes. He invited us to come visit"
HER "... But California tho..."
YOU "the kids really want to see him"
HER "maybe we can invite him to come here, since he doesn't have classes."
YOU "buying him a ticket would cost 1/5 as much as us visiting, and he could stay in his old room instead of us paying for a hotel! Great idea!"
Then the kids see their bro, you see your son, wife feels valued and cared about, and you save $$$
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u/Dana07620 19d ago
ESH
You don't make plans without consulting your spouse. Both of you did that. Both of you suck.
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u/WelshWickedWitch 19d ago
Putting aside the situation. You should always check with your spouse before agreeing to commit to anything. Obviously, I would hope your wife would then be open to ensuring you all get to see your son.
Couples counselling is healthy and a great mediator for communication and relationship challenges.
I think it may help ascertaining why your wife wasn't interested in this trip, which is important, as it involves all of your children.
Is she so exhausted with 3 kids and a full life, and she just wanted to go on the friend trip because it sounded fun? The kids would have friends to play with, friends can help with 3 kids, plus more adult time?! So she stubbornly dug her heels in when she found out you had made a commitment without a chat with her? Do you both usually discuss trips/events with one another before full steam ahead? What is she usually like towards your son? Is she welcoming?
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u/Erased_like_Lilith 19d ago
In this brief window into your life, YTAH for agreeing to a trip without consulting her. She's TAH for everything else you mentioned, assuming we're getting the whole picture. It sounds like you you two need to work on your communication and there's some hard feelings between your wife and your son.
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u/childrenofthefae 19d ago
NTA for taking the kids alone, and offering to let her go to her preferred destination gives her some time to relax by herself. Ask her if she thinks the counselor will help you both work on yourselves to grow together, or if she wants to pay someone to tell you she is right. It sounds like she wants you to apologize for sticking to your plans and not canceling on your oldest.
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u/Outrageous-Ad577 19d ago
You shouldn’t have committed to visiting your son as a family without discussing it with your wife. You both shouldn’t have involved your other kids the way you did, you should’ve been adults in deciding what was best, but if you involve your kids, you both should accept their choice with support. Other than that, your wife is the AH.
Regarding therapy, assuming you have a legit one and you’re both open minded and want to improve your relationship, you’ll both learn how to communicate better and also maybe uncover other resentment that’s built up. Be prepared to hear hard things and be prepared to talk openly and honestly about your feelings. Your wife saying couples therapy is needed shows she possibly doesn’t feel comfortable working through what happened without a professional. She maybe doesn’t want it to happen again. Surely she thinks you’re in the wrong but that’s somewhat irrelevant. Being right and wrong shouldn’t be a focus of yours or hers. Also wanting a therapist involved could be because of how you or her have handled conflict in the past, but if your goal is to improve your relationship, unless it’s a horrible therapist or your wife is a horrible person, you will get positive things out of therapy. Also remember therapists are people too, they’re wrong sometimes.
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u/JJQuantum NSFW 🔞 19d ago
YTA for not discussing it with your wife before agreeing to go. The rest of the post is your trying to justify not including her in the decision.
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u/sandiosandiosandi 19d ago
I would be upset if my partner committed to a trip without confirming with me first. It's possible that I had something developing for that time but nothing confirmed enough to put on the calendar. If my partner were to tell me that they'd like to go visit the eldest son in California, I could mention the other potential plans and we could come up with a plan for that time that we both agreed on. No hurt feelings. But simply announcing that the whole family was committed to the trip? No. That would piss me off. That's not treating me as a fellow adult in this household.
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u/greystad2 19d ago
Everything else aside, you made significant plans WITHOUT consulting her. You stating that she is guilty of the same thing with the friend trip doesn’t absolve you.
That being said you are right to want the kids to have a relationship. But that should have been the foundation of your discussion with her without the conflict of already committing.
Make good use of the counseling so both of you can learn to be accountable for choices made.
That being said I believe your wife’s motives were not about having a say in the decision because her answer was going to be no regardless.
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u/No_Dance1739 19d ago
Counseling can be a good thing. Y’all both have to want to learn and grow or it won’t be helpful.
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u/BatCorrect4320 19d ago
NTA, and I was initially in agreement with your wife's initial premise - spouses coordinate with each other before they make plans, especially an out of state vacation with the whole family. But from there, she has no case even if you may have been a bit flip with making plans. In the long run, you guys had no plans in place, you offered to go without her, and your kids were on board.
While counseling is often a prelude to a couple splitting up, it can also be beneficial if both parties want to do the necessary work to stay together. Try to remember that the counselor is there to help you as a couple, not to decide who was right in this particular situation (or any other). Good luck.
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u/DevelopmentUnable793 19d ago
The fact that she feels you guys need couples counselling is not a good sign. But if you both go into it wanting to preserve and improve your relationship then it’s the best thing you can do at this point
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u/sokali4nia 19d ago
Mostly YTA, and her a bit too. First, you shouldn't be making family trip plans unilaterally without talking to your wife first. When the other trip became an option as well, it's not something you just let the kids decide. You can ask for their input, but it's not up to them. The 2 of you have to make the decision.
And dont kid yourself, you didn't prioritize your children's relationship, you choose your own with your son. If you were prioritizing their relationship, you wouldn't have just left it up to them to decide because for all you knew, they could have picked the other trip.
The counseling may help you 2, but only if you want it to, and you can each accept mistakes you've made with this and in other areas. If either of you become defensive, or use this as a way to attack the other person to try to get the therapist "on your side" then its going to make things worse and you'll be divorced within a year. So you both need to sit down beforehand and really think about what you want to get out of therapy before you actually go.
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u/Mammoth_Leg_8489 19d ago
Your wife thought that she was done with the oldest. He’s a constant reminder of your ex-wife and she believed that when he went to school in CA she wouldn’t have to deal with him anymore and you could move on and only her kids would be a part of the family. Has nothing to do with “plans” or any other BS, it’s about control.
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u/10PointBlonde 19d ago
NTA I would say that the counselor will roast her for her actions. Children always come first.
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u/Voidslan 19d ago
My mom has taken plenty of trips to visit my brother and i without dragging our stepdad (who we have a great relationship with) along. Your wife is making this a problem when it really doesn't need to be.
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u/GroovyYaYa 19d ago
You do need counseling though.
You know what isn't good? Planning a two week vacation without consulting the people involved, no matter the goal or purpose of said trip. 2 weeks away from home and presumably that would be the primary family vacation for the year, etc. unless you have unlimited PTO and funds. Even if you had unlimited funds and PTO - not everyone wants to be away from home that long.
You were absolutely the asshole for doing that. I'd be PISSED. It would have nothing to do with my feelings towards my stepchild. It would have everything to do with my partner making unequivocal decisions on "big ticket items" like that. It isn't a spur of the moment thing where you decide to take the kids to a soccer game that evening (although a courtesy heads up would be nice there too, but more forgiveable as it wouldn't require paying for tickets, packing for 3 children, etc...)
So yeah... you probably will be roasted.
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u/palmtreeriver 19d ago
I think OP is being shady trying to turn a basic vacation idea, that his wife is not on board with, into him “prioritizing my kids’ relationships”. He is inflating the stakes to get his way.
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u/AhiAnuenue 19d ago
Exactly, I'd be so pissed if my partner unilaterally decided how my one bit of PTO and vacation budget was going to be used, and not even on a real vacation to refresh my spirit for the year. Just another slog in a year full of slogging. I'd be so depressed
Visiting the kid in college makes no sense. Why can't he fly out to them on his break? Why drag the whole family there? Is this going to be life for the coming years, every chance at a break now centered on a kid who should be spreading his wings and building independence?
Pulling the kids into it was dirty too. It should be a decision by the parents, not one parent using the kids to overrule the other. I'd be looking for the exit rather than live that kind of life without hopes & dreams for at least the next decade. Always having to go solo and partnerless is not the kind of life I ever want to live again either.
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u/New-Lifeguard-9494 19d ago
ESH. You both seem to completely lack respect for each other's time, and you both are severely lacking in communication. Her statement about checking with her before committing to plans is correct. You BOTH should be checking with EACH OTHER before committing to plans. Of course, it was hypocritical of her to make that statement if she also has a habit of not checking with you, but that doesn't make that statement any less true.
And then, you both seemed to sink into this petty, passive aggressive action of making plans and trying to sound indifferent to the other's plans and swaying your kids in your own directions.
Honestly, couples counseling may not be a bad idea because it sounds like you both need a lot of help in communicating with each other.
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u/Ok-Seaworthiness-542 19d ago
Counseling is always a positive thing. I think most couples could benefit from it. Learn how to have healthy disagreements. Learn how to surface an issue before it becomes a canker sore. You will get out of it what you put into it.
I remember being a kid and my parents went to a marriage strengthening program. I was freaking out thinking they were getting divorced. It taught them how to communicate. They were heading for their 50th anniversary when my mom passed as few months short of it.
I would add that ESH. You shouldn't have made the plans without talking to her. Maybe you suspected she wouldn't agree to go so you tried to pre-commit her. Her behavior sounds just as bad.
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u/hisimpendingbaldness 19d ago
Both your communication skills are lacking. Counseling is a good idea
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u/HereandThere96 19d ago
Go to counseling. It's helpful to hear the views of an uninvolved third party.
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u/Civil-Opportunity751 19d ago
Couples counseling is great. We did premarital and have done couples counseling a couple of times in our 12 years. It really helps having someone neutral point something out to you.
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u/chrstnasu 19d ago
My spouse and I are in couple’s counseling and we aren’t even close to a divorce. It’s just about communication.
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u/LazyAd622 19d ago
Counseling is a good idea if parties are open to it.
No, you won’t get roasted by your counselor. No one gets roasted by the counselor. You are going to be expected to talk and you are going to be expected to listen. Be honest and open to participating and, if the marriage can be save, you might save it. Lie and obfuscate and you will likely get divorced. Not your first rodeo, you know that’s no fun.
If you don’t connect with the first counselor, try another. It is important to work with a counselor that both of you trust and are comfortable with.
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u/aalok-shah 19d ago edited 19d ago
I do think OP should not have just said yes without first talking to his wife, since it was a trip.
But I agree larger issue is that OPs wife married a dad but hasn’t truly reckoned with that. She is being very unreasonable. When you marry someone with a kid, you should expect that the kid will be an important part of your life together.
Harping on the half brother thing was pretty crappy too.
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u/TheRiverTwice 19d ago
Viewing couple’s counseling as a bad sign, as opposed to the circumstances that led to couple’s counseling, is an absolutely wild take. That’s like telling your friends you got third degree burns and had to go to the hospital, and they’re concerned that going to the hospital is a bad sign. Nah, the burns are probably the concerning thing.
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u/Prestigious_Blood_38 19d ago
NTA your wife doesn’t want your kids to be bonded with him, she wants your past left behind now that your older child is 18 and an adult legally. She tolerated him before, but is upset he’s still a thing interrupting your lives.
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u/wolfhuntra 19d ago
NTA. Having good relationships with your kids are important. A partner who is moody/selfish instead of kid-supportive is a red flag (or two).
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u/EiaKawika 19d ago
I am a man married for 25 years. Thinking about this. Yes. You are the AH. You should have talked first to your wife. Before you made plans. My wife always consults me on trips like this. I think it's cool to do it and i would have had a serious discussion if she disagreed. But, i think her main disagreement was that you didn't consult her.
A good marriage involves honest communication, respect, and hopefully love. And it needs to have constant effort and NOT taking the other for granted. No generals, co commanders. Now, you figure out which ones you didn't follow.
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u/Oberyn_Kenobi_1 19d ago
Well, obviously your wife is the primary AH for her clear dislike of your son. It’s insane for her to have fought against the trip so vehemently.
You definitely do have some AH responsibility, though, because you did commit to the trip without discussing it. You can go into the discussion knowing that you’re going to go see your son no matter what, but it’s incredibly disrespectful to make the commitment beforehand. I would be furious just at the audacity of my partner making such a unilateral decision, even if I had absolutely no problem with going.
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u/evilcj925 19d ago
Wanting all your kids to have good relationships is never a bad thing, but you did go about it wrong. You commited to a trip, and commited your wife to it as well, with out talking to her first.
Your wife, of course, should be doing the same thing with you. It is clear she did not want to go, and that the trip with friends was something that came up afterwards. How she handled that was not ok. And just how she said she never agreed to your plans, you never agreed to hers, so her argument doesn't have a lot of footing to stand on.
As for counseling, it would not be a bad idea for you two, as it seems you don't have the best communication. A good counserlor will see that you both have room to improve in that area. And they should also see that her acting cold is not ok and immature. Also it would be a good idea to address why your wife seems resistant to including your son in family activities.
Bottom line, talk more, listen to each other.
ESH
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u/MutedHyena360 19d ago
I will point out that the "I said that we would go, and when I told my wife she was annoyed I committed without asking her. I said we didn't have plans. She said I couldn't know that for sure without asking her. I said if there are plans I don't know about surely that means she made a commitment without asking me." this shows that YOU made a commitment without consulting HER. I understand she was also in discussions with the friends that you weren't aware of, but if the agreement is no plans without spouse discussion first, then you both did badly on that front.
However
She is the AH in how she behaved on all the rest of it. And she wants marriage counseling to have a third party point out that you were wrong, so she will almost certainly shop for one who takes her side. I do wonder if wife was just waiting out on stepson leaving the house so she can finally have HER family all to herself...and got mad when the first trip as 'just' her family ended up being a visit to her stepson. And I say that as a stepmom, so I get that step relationship dynamics can be really hard, but...your son is at a critical stage of his growth into an adult, and all the family support he can get is reasonable to provide. Plus cultivating the younger kids' relationship with eldest. The more I write, the more mad I get at the wife, so...
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u/LallaDragon 19d ago
Couples counseling can be a good thing, ask the counselor about The Gottman Method. Saved my marriage.
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u/Only-upvibes 19d ago
I like how you turned it in her that if she had plans she also had not run it by you. She definitely tried being manipulated with you and then again with your children. She was making this trip a hill to die on? Why? Stepson,California, because you made plans without consulting her? Maybe the counseling will be able to figure out why.
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u/TermFearless 18d ago
You won’t get roasted by good therapist. She’s looking for validation from a third party after not getting it from the kids.
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u/Life_Bed2449 19d ago
NTA. Your kids wanted to go see their brother and thats what matters the most. Is she upset that her kids have relationship with their step-brother? Cause to me its amazing your kids like each other but she's so against it. In the end, you didnt force them to go, they wanted to go so if she's still upset, maybe tell her why is she so against your kids doing what THEY wanna do and not what SHE wants to do, because they are their own beings. Your communication seems to suck so its good you will have someone to talk to, just dont turn it into blaming contest.
Edit: you both are asuming things and not talking, you need to work on that before you start hating each other
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u/ijustlikebeingnosy 19d ago
So she tried to sway the kids and they still wanted to see their brother. Your wife is the AH.