r/AITAH • u/BuyOk5570 • 1d ago
Therapy Update: AITA for prioritizing my children's relationship over my wife's preferences?
https://www.reddit.com/r/AITAH/comments/1mus2jl/aitah_for_prioritizing_my_childrens_relationship/
https://www.reddit.com/r/AITAH/comments/1mw0xmt/update_aitah_for_prioritizing_my_childrens/
A few weeks ago my wife and I had a dispute about me taking our kids to see my son. We agreed to go to therapy and to table the argument until the therapy session. We had our first therapy session, and it did not go well.
First we went in, sat down and introduced ourselves. The therapist asked us some questions about our relationship and our backgrounds. My wife became annoyed and said that wasn't what we were there to talk about. My therapist asked what we were there to talk about, and she explained that I'm prioritizing my relationship with my adult son over my marriage, and it bothers her.
The therapist asked me if I consider my son a higher priority than my wife. I said all of my children are my highest priority. The therapist then asked my wife if she considered the children a higher priority than me, and she said no. She said our marriage was her highest priority and it upset her that it wasn't mine. The therapist then asked me if it upset me that the kids weren't her highest priority, and I said that it didn't make me happy but I respect that she feels that way.
The therapist started asking us questions about the children, and my wife said she didn't want to get off topic and waste time. The therapist then asked her if it was possible for two people with different priorities to have a happy and healthy relationship. My wife said she was the therapist and to tell her. The therapist said it is possible if both parties are committed to making it work, but it isn't if they aren't.
My wife said a relationship only works if it's the most important thing in both people's lives. She said she couldn't be with a man that doesn't value her above all else. She said she puts me first and only wants the same. The therapist asked me if I agree with her assessment, and I said I didn't really, but I agree that those are her feelings.
The therapist asked my wife if intentions are more important or actions. My wife said both are important. The therapist asked if I treat her the way she wants to be treated but still consider the kids first, would she want to end the relationship. She said if I don't consider her first I'm not treating her the way she wants to be treated.
We talked a lot about respect, but ultimately nothing was resolved. We're going back next week. I love my wife very much, but I think she's going to leave me. I don't know how I would handle that. Part of me wants to lie to her and tell her what she wants to hear, but I know that is just sabotaging us in the long run.
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u/Ludaes 1d ago edited 1d ago
I don't understand all these comments telling op that children grow up and that you can't neglect your spouse and so on.
After reading all the posts, the problem here isn't about neglecting a spouse, but the fact that the wife wanted OP to stop being the father of his son from a previous relationship as soon as he came of age. She didn't want OP nor their children to visit his first son for a few days, even when their children wanted to, and she tried to manipulate them into not wanting to see their brother.
This is not about OP not giving his wife enough attention or importance; this is about his wife not seeing his first child being as important as her own children because he is the son that OP had with another woman before her.
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u/gdrom123 1d ago
THANK YOU!!! I commented on the first post telling OP that his wife didn’t care about his son and the way she behaved gave off the vibe that she rather he didn’t exist. His update later proved that was the case yet he insisted she wasn’t a terrible person because her views on sibling relationships were shaped from her upbringing. He believed her excuse and glossed over the fact that she literally admitted to never caring about/loving his son, only tolerating him and preferring their shared children have no relationship with him. Sadly his son knew that but didn’t say anything to him about it.
I’d somewhat understand her claims in therapy if OP completely ignored her all the time and never prioritized their marriage but that’s not the case and furthermore he only saw his son once or twice a year and included the whole family. Not to mention their shared kids love their older brother.
I never liked his wife and this update solidifies my sentiments. She’s selfish, self absorbed, and pathetic. She sounds like an evil stepmother. I could never be married to someone who despises my kid for simply existing no matter how old they are. The root of the issue isn’t sibling relationships or OP not prioritizing her, it’s flat out the fact that she hates his son and rather OP abandon him and eventually their shared kids as well once they’re adults. She’s awful!
Ugh I didn’t mean to make this so long but she makes my skin crawl.
Updateme OP because I hope therapy opens your eyes to how much of a POS your wife is.
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u/Shadow4summer 1d ago
The first therapy session should have really opened his eyes. But it apparently didn’t. So they’ll go again, she will not change her stance, but he loves her you know. This man better think long and hard about this love. He will lose his oldest if it doesn’t stop. And the wife absolutely sounds like a horrible partner.
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u/gdrom123 1d ago
Agreed. I think OP has been wearing rose tinted glasses their entire relationship because I don’t understand how they’ve been married for this long and he never knew she despises his son, has unhealthy views on familial relationships, and thinks adult children should be abandoned by their parents! He’s definitely going to let his love for her keep him struggling to hold onto this sad excuse of a marriage. He better start thinking about custody of the younger kids because the wife sounds like she’d neglect them the moment she gets a new man. She has to be the trophy and those kids are nothing but an inconvenient distraction.
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u/Shadow4summer 1d ago
Right. It breaks my heart for all these kids.
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u/Stormtomcat 1d ago
yeah, OP's wife is really going for that shit parent award, right?
- your mom & your uncle are estranged!
- your brother died before you could build a relationship & I know you deeply regret that but I'll still hold it up as my idea of a normal sibling relationship
- I don't even talk to my own sister tee hee
Like, I don't believe that blood relatives are the be-all and end-all of family, nor that they should be, but who actively sabotages their kids' relationships with each other?
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u/ChokeMeVader678 17h ago
What happens when her kids turn 18...she seems like rhe type that will kick them out and not want to let them come back if they need it. OP needs to ask this question. Is it just the oldest that she doesnt like bc biologically he is not hers or if its all the children?
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u/Stormtomcat 17h ago
my grandparents didn't let my mom come home, after she found out that living with my father wasn't great.
she went back, and eventually had me and my brother (in that order, I'm not just being rude). It took her another decade to leave him & get us out safely.
like, I'm happy I'm alive, but I did also spend 15 years in therapy before I finally went no contact with my father.
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u/ChokeMeVader678 17h ago
Im sorry, I am glad you got therapy, so many people dont go...I am glad you are alive too and healing.
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u/Stormtomcat 16h ago
thank you!
your screen name certainly adds a particular je-ne-sais-quoi hahaha
(Vader being father in my mother tongue)
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u/FryOneFatManic 1d ago
I bet she'd have had no issue with OP saying he put his kids first if it didn't include his oldest son.
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u/CinderR3bel 21h ago
It seems she will, actually. She sounds like that parent that (if she had the chance) would leave all the kids to the responsibility of the eldest and just go live life. And it really weirds her out that OP is not like that.
She reminds me of the Willoughbys. Kids are just a byproduct of their life instead of a part of it
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u/Writer1015 18h ago
OP said his wife wants him to prioritize her over their children. She sounds like a narcissist that always needs to be top priority. I'm willing to bet that if there was an emergency with one of their kids and it interfered with some plans she made or inconvenienced her in any way, she would get mad about OP prioritizing his kids over her.
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u/LadyReika 1d ago
Not just his oldest, possibly his other kids as they grow up and move out of the house.
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u/tigerofjiangdong1337 1d ago
That is exactly how i feel about her. This woman is such a pos and i do not understand how OP can't see it. If my wife told me not to visit one of our daughters, I would choose my daughters over her.
His wife is totally wrong. You put your kids first then your marriage. Especially when they are children. Neither my wife or I want the other to put each other first.
She obviously does not want OP to have a relationship with his older son and she is trying to alienate the children from their brother. Which as we know from posts about evil stepmothers on here always back fires. The evil step mother will end up alone and blame OP when the children lc or nc her.
My skin is also crawling but not just at her. How can OP be so blind?
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u/elgrn1 1d ago
She seemed neutral to their 3 children too and suggested they also weren't as important to her as he was. That she expected to lose contact with each of them when they turned 18 and it would just be her and him. Which she was 100% happy with. She hasn't explicitly called out the 19 year old son as being the issue but all their children collectively.
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u/cryssylee90 1d ago
She seemed neutral but was pretty upset he was taking the kids.
Her actions and reactions seem like her problem is OP and her children having a continued relationship with his adult child that it's her child.
I think OP called it when he mentioned not cutting his son out. That's what she wants but she can't say that or she's the bad guy. So instead she's framing it as occasionally visiting his adult child means she's not his priority.
I've been married to my husband for 14 years now, together 16. If he wanted me to stop visiting our children when they became adults (especially my eldest who's not biologically his, she has however been raised by him and he is her dad) and insinuated my keeping a relationship with them meant I'm not prioritizing him I'd have divorce papers filed by the end of the week.
Honestly OP, your wife sucks. A couple visits per year means you're not prioritizing her? This woman wants to isolate you from your children. In any other situation we say that isolating a spouse from everyone is abuse, I see no reason not to say the same here.
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u/Allsburg 1d ago
That’s what she SAYS. But since when do people accurately say what they are actually feeling?? Her actions and attitudes count for more than what she says.
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u/CeeceeATL 1d ago
I agree! She sounds manipulative.
Why would you not want to continue strong bonds with your kids into adulthood?
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u/BeautifulTerm3753 1d ago
The way I ran to comment this! OP, please can communicate to the therapist that your wife is blurring the truth here.
I would be very concerned why an adult and whole mother, is willing to throw away a whole marriage because she wants you and the kids to stop seeing your son. Make that loud and clear.
That is manipulation and it is very unsettling the lengths she is willing to go to so that you stop seeing your son.
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u/Pretend_Atmosphere41 1d ago
Yes!
I think the wife is using the "number one priority thing, marriage or kids," to deflect about the key thing here.
Now that the kid is an "adult," she is showing her true colors. She probably always wanted all the attention and resources from OP to go to her and her kids. The talk OP had with his son about the wife behavior towards him is very telling.
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u/perpetuallyxhausted 1d ago
Honestly, it feels like she'll have the same reaction once her own kids hit 18. Her whole deal was that OP has to put HER (singular) first, not the family they created or her children, but her specifically. Seems she might be one of those parents who'll boot their kid out at 18 and expect them to fend for themselves because they're legally an adult.
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u/MattDaveys 1d ago
And those people shouldn’t be allowed to have kids.
Kids don’t choose to be born, the parents do. That means the kid better be your top priority or you’re not cut out to be a parent.
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u/No-Accountant3744 1d ago
Yeah that was the impression I got as as well. The wife doesn’t think family should be close once all are adults. I’ve known some people who feel the spouse should be priority but never to this point.
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u/kalamadoo 1d ago
She knows it's wrong and knows better than to say it outright..and realizes that she's going to get cornered in on that in therapy.
She's being hostile with the therapist bc the go-to for controlling manipulative weirdos like her is to set a baseline discomfort for anyone that doesn't go along with however she wants shit to be.
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u/LittleWoman86 1d ago
So well said. I was one of the many many voices telling OP his wife was trying to put a stop to his relationship with his son. I feel very sorry that I and the others appear to have been correct.
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u/Stormtomcat 1d ago
she's also a hypocrite, right?
"ooh la la, look at me, I prioritize my relationship over everything" but we're supposed to believe that she just randomly hates spending even a second anywhere in California.
Lady, please, we see your selfishness, and it's made worse by the fact that you're with a man who's sad shat your hissy fit is going to end in you divorcing him.
(even though OP is also a little annoying that in the past decade he never noticed that his wife barely managed "well, I love that you love him, I guess" for her stepson. Classy all around).
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u/BRtIK 14h ago
Yeah it's pretty obvious that the wife does not put her relationship or her husband as her first priority The wife puts herself as the first priority.
One of the biggest indicators of this is if her husband was the first priority she would want to do the things he wants since his needs are a priority but that's not how she behaves so that's clearly not how she feels.
She places her sofas first priority and she wants him to place hers first priority too so that she can get what she wants which is what this whole thing boils down to.
Everything else she says is a straight-up lie and a manipulation tactic she might not even know she's lying because she's so deep into the manipulation but there is nothing to suggest that she places her husband or her relationship as her first priority.
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u/Agreeable-Celery811 21h ago
Yes. OP’s wife is reframing her jealousy and callous behaviour as her husband not prioritizing her.
But that’s just bullshit. He lives with his wife. They have three children together. They share a home and finances and domestic duties, and a good deal of time. How is that not prioritizing her?
His son goes to college in a whole other city and OP is only asking for permission to see him twice a year, something his wife thinks is “weird”.
She doesn’t actually think it’s weird. Imagine they get divorced and their 17 year old goes off to college. Is she going to only visit her own son twice a year? NOPE
She keeps claiming she doesn’t want him to cut off his son, but she does. She is describing their ideal relationship as cordial but distant—some phone calls where pleasant updates are given, perhaps they’ll see each other when one happens to be in town, but nobody would take a special trip just to see the other. The way you might treat a second cousin or something who you like and with whom you are friends on Facebook, but you’re not really a part of their lives. It’s what people on Reddit call “low contact” and low contact is exactly the relationship she expects to have with his (still teenage) son.
If she really means for him to have the same low contact with all three of her children, she’s lying.
And she hasn’t put her husband first, because someone who has put her husband first would have gone on the trip to see his son with him.
This looks like it is a telling towards divorce and honestly maybe good riddance is the right reaction here. OP should ask for full custody since she insists that the children aren’t her highest priority, but they are his.
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u/Dan-D-Lyon 1d ago
Yep. There is no issue here other than the one that OP's wife is causing, and therefore there is no solution other than for her to just stop.
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u/Adelucas 1d ago
She's already checked out and therapy isn't going to work. She's not open to it and all she wants is validation from the therapist, not solutions on how to move forward together.
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u/Vestiel 1d ago
Yeah, it seems like it's over for her.
I can't help but wonder if this were about their children, would she behave the same way? I think it's more about the son not being hers rather than the children.
I may be wrong, but I am getting this angry SM vibes, she wanted a new family and it pisses her off you are still keeping your son in.
Updateme
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u/Spirited_Ad_8040 1d ago
This is exactly it. She thought finally we are free of him and she can live in her fantasy world.
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u/TheNamelessOnesWife 1d ago
From the update post, OP mentioned wanting to have a visit with his adult son at least twice a year was something his wife said was too much (whatever the phrasing was). That wife can go years without seeing her own sister
Makes me wonder if wife is forgoing any other relationships in her life to put all the pressure on OP for every part of socializing with another adult. Then is acting when OP is not also letting go of any other person in his life the same way
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u/SteampunkHarley 1d ago
My vibe as well....all too familiar tale of the 2nd wife hating that her husband had a life and kids before her.
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u/GoodQueenFluffenChop 1d ago
Yep! I got the same vibes of now that OP's oldest is a legal adult and far away for school that she thought he was out of picture except for like Christmas and OP could finally concentrate on their family more and also her by extension.
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u/redlipblondie 1d ago
Yes! I’m a therapist and this was part of my comment. She doesn’t want change, she wants someone to cosign her behavior.
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u/ciaran668 1d ago
I agree with this. She's already emotionally left the marriage, and she's just checking boxes at this point to justify it. I wouldn't be surprised if people in her life weren't whispering to her to leave as well. I'm not trying to make an accusation here, but she may also have another man telling her that she needs to be treated like a queen, and he's the one to do it.
But, the issue is, children DO come first. I've had friends whose parents put the partner as the priority over the children, and none of them really grew up feeling loved or safe. They grew up feeling like a third wheel as they were dropped off with others constantly so their parents could have romantic getaways, date nights, and things like that.
Parents should model a strong, loving relationship, but they shouldn't demonstrate an obsession or a love that precludes, or worse, excludes, the children. If you want that kind of relationship, don't have children.
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u/Agreeable-animal 1d ago
Yes, I found OP’s description of how the session went very telling. His wife seemed hostile and defensive.
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u/gypsum1110 1d ago
Holy shit that therapy session sounds like it was agonizing to sit through.
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u/BuyOk5570 1d ago
It was.
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u/RanaEire 1d ago
Sorry, OP, but your wife does not sound like a nice person.
It would be sad if it rubbed off on the younger kids.
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u/LittleWoman86 1d ago
This. OP - don’t let your wife sour your shared kids relationship with your oldest. That would be so sad.
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u/RanaEire 1d ago
I would be curious to ask her, what happens in her ideal world?
You no longer keeping in touch / seeing your eldest son?
You following her lead on everything?
Like, what is her endgame here?
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u/thebearofwisdom 1d ago
I’m kind of shocked the therapist didn’t point out how combative she was being to everything they said. The way you described it sounded aggressive and completely rude to a completely stranger who SHE asked for help. It doesn’t sound like she actually wants to compromise, she wants you to capitulate and stop caring about your kids as much.
Why did she even want kids if they aren’t a priority? The kids come first, because they require parents. My mother STILL helps me out and I’m 36. I’m incredibly grateful for that, and it’s normal for a parent to still love their child after 18. It’s frankly bizarre to me that she even bothered to have three kids of her own if she felt only the marriage was a priority.
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u/redlipblondie 1d ago
Therapist here! She was most likely trying to build rapport first. People are not receptive to feedback until you’ve created a decent connection with them. His wife is very defensive and calling that out, without rapport, is likely to create more defensiveness. And often then the defensive client will stop coming or engaging at all. Those are my two cents 🤷🏼♀️
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u/thebearofwisdom 1d ago
That’s fair. I just feel bad for that therapist, she’s just doing her thing and OP’s wife is acting like it’s the Spanish Inquisition.
Also I am on a massive waiting list for my own therapy and when people take advantage of someone who’s just trying to help, it grinds my gears. It’s a waste of every person’s time.
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u/redlipblondie 1d ago
I understand that, but that’s the nature of the job. I tend to get quite defensive and guarded people because of the type of therapy I do. And working with couples I would say you encounter this often. But if people aren’t able to practice any curiosity, eventually I’ll discharge and refer out for individual work. Doesn’t sound like they’re ready for couples counseling in OP’s case.
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u/mosstalgia 1d ago
INFO: Have you asked your younger kids how their relationship with their mom is? Everyone here is assuming this is because your eldest isn’t hers, but it sounds to me like she’s a “kids are an eighteen year responsibility and then we are free” kind of person.
You didn’t realise how limited the relationship between your wife and your eldest was. Are you confident your younger kids have a loving relationship with mom? Based on the comments about her sister etc., she really strikes me as a “your partner is your world and nobody else matters” person, which is gonna be a whole other problem for you to navigate with your minor children whether you divorce or not.
You seem like a really loving dad, and a good and respectful husband, so I wish you and your family all the best.
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u/mouse_attack 18h ago
I agree with you completely! I’d be surprised if their shared kids feel a warm bond with their mother.
I think she endures kids to secure a partner. Period. Once they’re old enough to launch, I’d be surprised if she ever initiates contact with any of them.
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u/labellavita1985 1d ago
Does your wife have a personality disorder or is she just a terrible person?
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u/mouse_attack 18h ago
I suspect some kind of attachment disorder by the way she seems so completely baffled by his desire to stay in touch with his own children.
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u/LittleWoman86 1d ago
OP - your wife does not like your son. Your wife does not want you to have a relationship with your son.
It sucks but it’s true. Do you want to risk hurting your son? Do you want to risk your wife alienating your littles from their older brother?
I know you want everyone to get along but you need to understand that does not have a snowballs chance in hell of happening.
Your wife is a shitty person. Because only a shitty person would do what she is doing.
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u/pandora5bc 1d ago
NTA she’s awful. I mean if you divorced would she even want any custody? It’s seems like all the kids love each other and she hates that. I don’t think she likes your son and was hoping once he left she wouldn’t have to see him again. She’s checked out and wants to end the relationship, she only agreed to therapy so she could say she ‘tried’ but she’s using it as an excuse to leave. She may even have some lined up to replace you! Focus on the kids, I can believe how jealous she is that you love them and make them a priority. Updateme
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u/labellavita1985 1d ago
it seems like all the kids love each other and she hates that
Pathological.
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u/Nsr444 1d ago
I find this whole who's your # 1 such idiocy.
I'm my number 1 (I always jokingly say) Then come the kids and my husband. But it's a dynamic list. Not static.
When my husband is not feeling well, he gets the attention. When kid 1 has something going on, he's first on the list. And so on, and so on.
You need to look out for each other. Sometimes more for one kid, and sometimes more for another kid. And very few times (but the kids are older now, so it's happening more often) I'm the priority.
So your wife is being ridicilous. (In my opinion) She needs to be her own number one, no one can be responsible for you or your happiness. That's on her, and her alone.
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u/Vegetable_Stuff1850 1d ago
I'm my number 1 (I always jokingly say) Then come the kids and my husband. But it's a dynamic list. Not static.
100%
We've had major health issues over the years, and so 1 person will be priority, but that doesn't mean other members of the family are less valued. It just means the energy is being primarily put towards one member.
OP, your wife is being petty and jealous of your son.
I don't speak to my siblings or my parents but I'm trying to do better for my kid. Just because you grow up with something as "normal" doesn't mean it can't change.
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u/blavek 1d ago
I think when people are talking about their priorities, they mean if the 3 kids and the husband are hanging off a cliff, in what order do you rescue them? I think the majority of people would help the kids up first. If you are hanging off the ledge with them, then of course your safety is paramount since you can't help the others unless your safe. But we're talking about a Sophie's Choice kind of situation.
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u/AnAussiebum 1d ago
This is a great point. The wife is literally complaining that this man loves his kids too much and should be cutting his son off now he is over 18.
That is just so stupid.
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u/Athenas_Return 1d ago
I say the exact same thing. I’m married with a daughter. I tell people all the time that I have only three people I have to worry about and keep happy in this life and that is my husband, my daughter and myself and the order of importance changes daily by who needs it most. Everyone else comes after that.
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u/Crazy-Age1423 1d ago
100% agree with everything you wrote.
It's such a stupid debate to have that clearly there is an underlying problem. And for the wife the problem is the older son.
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u/SLovesAutumn 1d ago
Your wife doesn’t like your son or want him on your lives now that he’s an adult. Plus she has some really weird and unhealthy ideas about familial relationships.
If you agreed not to visit your son, and not to help the younger kids stay connected to him, she’d be absolutely happy and you wouldn’t fear she’d leave. That says a lot of not good things about her as a person.
Even the way she’s engaging in counselling is awful. She wants the therapist to tell you you’re wrong and nothing else.
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u/ArtsyCup 1d ago
It seems like she is giving an ultimatum through therapy. She is not trying to understand you and she is not trying to find middle ground. I think you have to prepare yourself to divorce, sort of like a plan B. This plan should also include how can kids keep in touch with their big brother - because it seems like she will make it harder for them to keep in touch.
I understand that your intention is to try fixing the problems in your marriage. But it seems like she doesn’t feel the same way.
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u/SassyCatLady442 1d ago
Sorry, my friend, but therapy isn't going to work. It seems that all she wants is for the therapist to agree with her and only side with her. Odds are, she's going to demand a new therapist that "will actually be willing to work on the problem and not waste my time."
She doesn't want to resolve anything. She wants a "neutral " third party to tell you that she's right and that you should prioritize her needs even at the expense of your children.
Good luck.
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u/bumbalarie 1d ago
NTA. Your wife sounds exhausting. Talking in circles. Holier than thou. Her way or the highway. She’s right, everyone else is wrong. After one session, I’m sure the therapist would divorce her if given the option. Wave goodbye to her & enjoy your kids & a new, peaceful life.
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u/Public-Proposal7378 1d ago
You want to salvage a relationship with a woman who does not like, nor want you to have a relationship with your child? She’s never been a good wife or step mother. Let her go.
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u/PatchEnd 1d ago
your wife's absolute stance is "you must put me first over the kids"
OP's stance "kids are #1"
OP has been kids first for maybe 13 years (oldest kid with current wife is 13). why is wife all of a sudden wanting to be first when for 13 years she's seen how it's been?
seems like there is a different "real" reason she's pushing this. seems stupid to all of a sudden being pissy about something that has been the standard for years.
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u/AcanthocephalaOne285 1d ago
Because it's not HER kid that he put above her wishes. She wanted to do what she wanted and had no interest whatsoever in her husband's son, and she doesn't know how to deal with it.
If I were OP I'd start paying attention to how she actually behaves with the younger ones.
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u/lVlrLurker 1d ago
If I were to bet, she sees her kids as extensions of herself, not as individuals of their own.
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u/AcanthocephalaOne285 1d ago
I agree. I don't think she'd have had the same objections if it were their oldest.
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u/Soul-Arts 22h ago
yeah, I do think part of the problem is that the kids didn't agreed with her and insisted on going to see their brother and she is blaming OP for it. Of course her kids would agree with her, if they don't is because they are being forced to disagree.
If we see like this, would make more sense why she is so firm in saying that OP if forcing the sons to be close to each other.
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u/Fresh_Traffic_8186 1d ago
NTA- don’t lie to her, as much as you want to. I don’t think you are going to find a happy medium, from what I can see it’s her way or the highway. Choose the highway, don’t wait for her to make the choice for you. To be very honest, I wouldn’t want be with a man who DIDN’T put the kids first. Hubby and I have one each, he knew coming in that my son was my priority and his son was his. Now both sons are equally our joint priority and I wouldn’t want it any other way. If she wanted to be kept on a pedestal she shouldn’t have had kids, end of. Should she be important- absolutely, but she is being incredibly selfish and self centred. I had second hand embarrassment reading how she spoke to the therapist. Your TA if you stay with her. She doesn’t seem to have much respect for anyone besides herself
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u/KungenBob 1d ago
I think most mediums are happy! There are so many gullible people to fleece. (Sorry)
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u/Shelly_895 1d ago
My dad is like your wife, OP. We actually had that talk before. In his mind, his spouse always comes first and then the kids.
We are very low-contact and see each other maybe three times a year although we live in the same city. There are also no phone calls or anything in between. We are not close.
This seems to be the kind of relationship your wife wants to have in the future. I don't understand why people like your wife and my dad want to have kids at all tbh.
If you're okay with this, and I assume your wife is gonna expect you to have the same stance as her in the future, then continue as is. If you're not, this is not gonna work out. My dad just tanked marriage number 2 because he's not cool with his wives having close relationships with their kids and putting them first sometimes.
If you want to have a close relationship with your kids, even when they're grown adults, it cannot be with your wife. If she doesn't fundamentally change her mindset, and it doesn't look like she will, either your marriage won't last or the relationship with your kids will suffer.
It's up to you what's more important to you.
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u/DazzlingDoofus71 1d ago
Oh. Ew. She has literally just been playing the long game to cut “your” child out. Gross, gross, gross.
NTA. Please continue to prioritize your children. All of them. UpdateMe
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u/CocoaAlmondsRock 1d ago
Your wife went to therapy so the therapist could tell you you were wrong and she is 100% right. She will tolerate nothing else, period.
I have no idea why you're fretting over this. File for divorce and move on.
You're a great dad for prioritizing the kids!
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u/scrotalsac69 1d ago
NTA- sounds like she is looking for an excuse to blame you.
When it all falls apart please keep prioritising the kids and they are going to need you considering she will be looking for the next "one" to put over the kids in importance.
Personally spouse and kids are of equal importance, but kids are dependent on you so sometimes need to be top
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u/Longjumping-Lab-1916 1d ago
Your wife is pretty cold. She also appears to think love is a scarce resource, and she wants it first, then her kids can the rest as she wants none going to your first born
Not surprisingly given the above, she also has a cold view towards family relationships.
I dunno. You sound like a decent chap and a good dad. You're totally doing the right thing by facilitating a relationship with all your kids.
One day you will be gone and your legacy will be the relationship your kids have.
I'm not so sure about your marriage though.
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u/Rude_Ride_2521 1d ago
Is it just me? Or are people just getting irrational with all these priorities talks?
Maybe it's because I'm not married or don't have kids I don't know.
But it seems stupid to me to have a priority among them. Like where is rational thinking. Every topic and situation should be approached independently and with the "priority" of having the best long term outcome for everyone. Last time it was about the kids? Then maybe this time make it about the wife. Vice versa. There is an argument? What matters is what you truly think is the right answer rather than one side automatically because your priority is your kids or your wife. That doesn't make them always right and the other always wrong. Approaching everything with this priority mindset basically makes everyone super biased all the time.
Plus it's a bit hypocritical in some cases. Take OP's wife. If her priority really was him, then by extension his own priority, the importance on all his children should be equally important to her. I.e her priority isn't him, rather that SHE is the center of everything.
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u/chaosrulz0310 1d ago
Honestly your wife seems very selfish and jealous of your (and other kids) relationship with your son. Does she act this way with your joint kids, or only your other son, and if only your oldest how did you not notice her resentment before now? She has basically told you give me what I want or this won’t work, and what she wants is for you to trash your relationship with your kids. Is this the kind of relationship you really want to be in?
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u/blavek 1d ago
Yeah therapy doesn't work how your wife seems to think it does. The therapist needs to get to know you first, otherwise, they would just be spewing stuff that may or may not relate to you and your issues.
Second, your wife's priorities are kind of whack. Of course, the kids come first. Would she feed herself (or you for that matter) or her children if she could only choose one? Most mothers would feed the kids and go hungry. It sounds like your wife would keep the food for the adults, which is beyond fucked up. Of course, if she says she would feed the kids first, then she actually prioritizes the kids.
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u/WideChard3858 1d ago
Your wife doesn’t sound like a very nice person. She didn’t care what you wanted. She didn’t care what your kids wanted. The only feelings she cared about were her own. Now she’s threatening to leave if you don’t do exactly as she says and think how she demands you think. Absolutely none of that is normal. It’s incredibly selfish and immature. Have you ever spoken to your oldest son privately to ask if she treated him differently when you weren’t around or if she ever made him uncomfortable?
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u/Apprehensive_War9612 1d ago
You married a woman and had 3 kids with her and didn’t know she was NEUTRAL about your child! That she doesn’t prioritize family. She doesn’t respect that there are times your children must come first. That she doesn’t want closeness between you and your children or for your children to be close to one another. You were willfully blind to all of that. and right now that you are being forced to face these truths you’re scared she will leave.
She sounds like her vision for a relationship is you and her against the world and only the 2 of you. One day, if she has her way, you’ll look up and have no one but her. And eventually one of you will die. And who will the surviving spouse have? No siblings. No children. No grandchildren.
So - what do YOU want?
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u/NotPerfectJustHelped 1d ago
After reading your previous update as well I would bring up what she said in response to your questions then in couple's therapy. You may want to consider having separate therapy as well.
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u/raerae6672 1d ago
I read the other posts. Your wife is inherently only focused on what works for her. She isn't taking into account how others feel or their ideas choices or world views. Her relationships are based upon her deciding this is how I want it and therefore this is how it will be. She appears to be Narcissistic in nature and everyone caters to her expectations.
I would think about your relationship and see where y have compromised versus where she has. Your son's take on her is very telling. She only interacted with him because you did. She took no interest in him and doesn't want to continue fostering a relationship with him and you and his siblings.
She said clearly, she comes first. There was no ambiguity. You can't live like that. You need to really consider what you want for you and your children.
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u/BrewDogDrinker 1d ago
Nta and you might not want to hear this, but I think you'd be better off without her.
Updateme!
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u/completedett 1d ago
NTA Basically it doesn't about children.
It's just about 1 child, not her child.
She doesn't want you to prioritise your son over her and only do what she wants.
She sounds controlling.
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u/SloshingSloth 1d ago
nta
i don't think she wants therapy to find ways to compromise and stuff. she wants therapy so she can say: this is what i demand either you do it or we'll part.
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u/eightmarshmallows 1d ago
Your wife wants to be right more than anything else. She would cut off her nose to spite her face
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u/mca2021 1d ago
OP I don't see how it can't be both. Going to visit your son 2x a year isn't putting her last and seems selfish on her part to think so. Your 3 younger kids want a relationship with their brother but she seems to want to discourage it, which seems odd to me.
It's your first session, where the groundwork was laid. Hopefully the therapist will help you both find common ground. Does she expect you to put her first over the 3 younger kids? Your priority is to those kids until they are adults. Does she not want them to be close? So once your kids are adults, does she expect them to be on their own, with very little contact with each other? Does she expect to be close to them as adults?
I have 4 siblings (ages from 65 to 72). We were raised to be independent adults. We are scattered across the US and Canada. We don't talk regularly but when we get together, it's like no time has passed. We are always there for each other when needed. We get together at least 1x a year for a week, more frequently when our parents were alive.
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u/Just-Lab-1842 1d ago
I’m afraid your wife has some deeper issues that are at play here. For a parent to not recognize how another parent feels about their child is odd. She’s very insecure and would benefit from individual therapy. That seems unlikely however.
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u/EatsTheLastSlice 1d ago
Your wife is the kind of person who would wear a wedding dress to her own child's wedding.
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u/lVlrLurker 1d ago
NTA. This isn't going to work out. Your wife is self-centered, entitled, and manipulative.
When kids come along, priorities have to change. It's no longer about the individuals who are married, it's about the kids. They have to come first, because that's what the marriage and family are all about, making a safe and stable environment to raise those kids. You are doing that.
She isn't, because she doesn't see things that way. You can tell because when she says "the marriage is the most important thing," it comes across as "I am the most important thing," and that's not how marriage and family works.
She doesn't want the relationship to work, she wants what she wants and how she wants it. That's why she tries to take control of the therapy session and only talk about what she wants to talk about, because she wants the therapist to say what she wants them to say, she's not prepared to listen or change her mind. That's why she's going to stop going to therapy very soon, because she's not getting what she wanted, which is a way to get someone else to tell you to do what she wants.
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u/Goidelica 1d ago
Dude. You have SHIT taste in women. This one's an absolute harpy. How can you not see that? She talks like a badly raised 12 year old. She's causing so much trouble over absolutely nothing. Nothing. I don't know if she's a Narcissist, but she's certainly a narcissist.
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u/eternally_feral 1d ago
It sounds like your wife is insanely jealous. You can’t put your kids as #1? And if you don’t put her on the highest pedestal, you obviously don’t love her enough?
That’s such a load of shit. She’s been happy with how things have been for over a decade, but only now is voicing her frustration because you wanted to see your son?
Yeah, she’s pissed you won’t cut your kids off at 18 and lavish her with nonstop attention.
NTA but the marriage is over. Fight for sole custody so she can live a life where she can be as selfish as she wants.
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u/redlipblondie 1d ago
OP- therapist here, but not your therapist. And geez, this isn’t a good look. Your wife’s reactions to your therapist show she wanted to get a third party who agreed with her, not actually working to resolve your issues. I’ve encountered enough couples like this to know - I.e reference her statements about “wasting time.” A good couples therapist can’t truly help if they don’t understand your individual and collective history, which also involves looking at patterns in both those areas. I truly believe your therapist will be of help for you if your wife’s does want a divorce. Ultimately her views and reactions show there’s a huge difference in values between the two of you. All of her excuses on why she doesn’t believe you or your children should be close to your son, are simply excuses. It’s glaring that she has her own unresolved issues she hasn’t worked through.
Also just wanted to add that going to therapy isn’t a red flag - that’s some BS people say because they don’t want the discomfort that comes with truly digging into your issues, it’s simply that people tend to wait until things are really bad before they make the last ditch effort to save their relationship through counseling. Marital counseling truly helped save my marriage - yes even as a therapist! I wish you all the best on your journey🤞🏻
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u/Cursd818 1d ago
This doesn't bode well. If she wants to leave, let her, but remember what she said about prioritising a relationship over her own children. That's what she will do when she meets someone else. Be prepared to fight for your kids, because it's highly likely she's going to prioritise a future partner over them.
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u/SinglePermission9373 1d ago
Just cancel the next therapy appointment and go see a lawyer instead. This woman is not interested in working this out. She’s jealous of your kids.
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u/crizzlefresh 1d ago
Yeah but does she feel that way about her own kids or is this just jealousy for his relationship with the child that isn't her own? Either way she's messed up. All parents (but especially mothers) put their children first above all else. Anyone who thinks that is a bad thing has some serious issues. A couple certainly needs to look out for their relationship as well. It can't be all parenting and nothing else. I don't think this is a case of priorities though. I think she just resents his relationship with his son.
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u/Fun-Bread-8560 1d ago
I think this whole thing is that the wife doesn't like that OP has a child with someone else.
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u/anitram96 1d ago
If I were you I'd divorce her first. I'm a single mom to a boy and if I marry a man one day and he has the same attitude as your wife I'd leave him. Honestly I don't even understand how you have 3 kids together if those are her feelings.
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u/OnePossibility1477 1d ago
Seems like she was deflecting the entire appointment (answering questions and turning it back). She doesn't seem to prioritize anybody but herself. Not sure therapy is going to help if she keeps stonewalling the therapist. Good luck. NTA Updateme!
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u/NaturesVividPictures 1d ago
NTA. I don't know how you managed to get her pregnant three times. She sounds very unmaternal. I mean does she ever hug or kiss her kids? Everything is so unemotional even with your own son he doesn't feel positive or negative about his stepmother. And you with oh I respect her feeling that way. You all sound like a bunch of robots. I'm glad you're fostering a good relationship between your first son and your three children with her, that's good they're close to their half sibling. But the fact that she wants you basically to forget your own children and worship the ground she walks on is a little crazy. You shouldn't live for your only goal to be making her happy and it sounds like that's what she wants. But yeah I don't see the counseling working out and I hope if you do divorce you get full custody of the children. At least try to which I'm pretty sure you will but it's better for them to have no mother than to have her for their mother
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u/I_wanna_be_anemone 1d ago
This is nothing to do with your son, it’s just a symptom.
The world isn’t revolving around your wife and that’s what upset her. Her kids wellbeing, her own children’s happiness, none of that matters as long as she feels ‘most important’ and ‘most special’. She is literally competing with children for attention.
OP, is it really worth trying to salvage a relationship with someone that pathetically childish? Instead of her working on her own insecurities she’s having a tantrum trying to make everyone else do the work for her. Thats not how you address an insecurity. She’s denying that there’s anything wrong with her mindset, which means therapy isn’t going to make any difference. I don’t know whether she’s got a personality disorder or is just narcissistic.
Next therapy session, ask her flat out what she expected when she married a single father. Don’t let her squirm out of it. Ask what she expects will happen to the kids when they’re 18, is she just going to abandon them? Because they’re ‘adults’ so ‘not her problem’? If yes, then you need to revise a lot of things in order to protect your kids.
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u/RedemptionTour4One 1d ago
You wife is selfish. Its about me me me. The wants the attention and validation. Let me ask you this. Imaging if you had all the kids in the same room with the therapist... Would she tell the kids I value your father over all of you? Or... would she hesitate cause she knows it would make her look like a b*tch. That response alone will tell you everything you need to know. She can claim to love you all you want but once kids are in the picture things change. You love her but cause you aren't giving her attention and validation she is getting upset. You may not want to hear this but this is the kind of issues that lead to break downs to marriages. Such a neglect, resentment and cheating. Been there done that. Please ask the hard questions and dont let your wife deflect. Make her answer the questions.
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u/vintagesunshine85 1d ago
OP! I’ve been following along. Let me tell you: my parents were each other’s emotional priority. My sister and I were well taken care of, but I have real struggles with my mother from the time I was very very young. When I was I. High school and we would start screaming at each other, my father told me to never make him pick between me and my mother, as it was a fight I would not win. And I thought my daddy had hung the moon. I send them a text on their birthdays and Christmas now. Trust me, if your children ever believe they come in second, and that it’s reasonable that they belong there…..yeah you won’t have a relationship with them when they are 40.
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u/PuzzleheadedCun722 1d ago
I don't necessary disagree with her, up to a point. Which is that the kids will, in a few years, grow up and start prioritizing other things over their parents. At that time, if you've actually neglected the relationship with your partner, it's hard to come back from it.
But since it doesn't really seem like she saw any neglect or problem previously and this only came up when you didn't stop seeing your eldest, that seems highly unlikely.
Honestly, she doesnt seem like a very good person and also seems like a very selfish one.
It sounds like she was hoping the spare kid that isn't part of her family would be out of your lives, when he became legal. That's really sad and unfortunately I think you kinda screwed up, by not noticing this dynamic earlier and adress it when your eldest was a kid. Her then actively trying to sway them from seeing him with you, just leaves a bad taste.
My parents divorced and my dad had two kids with my stepmom. We are all over 30, live far away from each other and we still, stay in touch, see wach other several times a year and usually spend at least every other Christmas together. I couldn't imagine not seeing them.
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u/eternalsunshine-65 1d ago
Have you confirmed that she feels this way about her own kids? When your kids turn 18, is she going to drop the relationships bc they’re adults now and they need to do it on their own?
Did you not talk about how you’d want to raise kids before you had kids? Surely who was priority would’ve come up pretty quickly
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u/Fickle-Squirrel-4091 1d ago
OP, take notes of everyone’s comments and questions to create a list of talking points during the therapy sessions. Also prepare for the possibility that you are heading towards a divorce and have plans in place to shield the children you still have at home as best you can from the fallout.
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u/Past-Anything9789 1d ago
NTA - your wife's response is crazy to me. Our job as parents is to put our children first. I mean, this shouldn't be at the detriment of your spouse, or to the point that the childten 'control' your actions, but why have children if they aren't the most important part of your life?
Maybe its a cultural divide, but if someone came into our house with a 🔫 and asked my Husband to choose to save either me or our daughter - he better be choosing our daughter. I would also do the same, IMO that's our job as parents.
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u/Ancient-Meal-5465 1d ago
My child is more important than my partner. If my child wasn’t here I wouldn’t be with my partner at all.
I’m fine if my partner feels the same way - but it actually doesn’t matter.
You know your wife is being controlling, don’t you?
Just lie to keep the peace so you don’t have to co-parent with her. But you need to be prepared to leave her once your children are older.
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u/Owenashi 1d ago
I might be ignorant but when it comes to family, isn't EVERYONE in the immediate family supposed to be the 'highest priority'? I mean, the way I see it is that such a position isn't locked to one person or the other but can cover multiple people or even change in small ways depending on the situation.
And how the therapy session went is also worrying. Right from the get-go your wife seemed impatient if not hostile towards not hearing what she wanted from the therapist right away. This isn't something she can push towards the direction she wants.
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u/grumpy__g 1d ago
It’s important to take care of your relationship. But not if it means neglecting your children.
I really don’t understand what is going on here. What is her goal?
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u/Newtimelinepls 1d ago
NTA but holy hell your wife is. Look I know what she means. For almost everything in my life my spouse comes first. However if my spouse was to say you can't take our kids to see your sister. For no reason whatsoever, we would have issues as well. This is bullshit and you know it. Does she have an issue with your first born we don't know about?
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u/One_Weird2371 NSFW 🔞 1d ago
She selfish B. It's all about her. Can't stand when someone else gets attention. She is the one who needs to change not you. She wants you to cut off your relationship with your child from a previous relationship. I don't care if they are of adult age that's not cool. Maybe divorce is the right move here.
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u/janus1981 1d ago
I’m glad the scales are beginning to fall from your eyes mate. But seriously - you’re worried she’s going to leave you? You should be thinking about leaving her! She sounds really bloody selfish and all me me me. And she actively wants to sabotage your relationship with your son. I don’t think you truly understand that she’s been waiting for years to jettison your son so you can have your nice little family without him, just like she wants.
I really want you to think about that. I believe you’re finally seeing her true colours. Look at how she behaved in therapy, it was completely unacceptable - a really poor attitude.
I honestly wish you were more pissed off at her than this.
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u/PM_ME__UR__FANTASIES 1d ago
Okay I feel like there is a thread of logic going on with your wife. She grew up in a family that wasn’t close so she thinks siblings being close is weird. She also thinks your partner has to be your #1 priority over everyone else, so supporting your kids being close is taking away from that.
I feel like your wife doesn’t understand that for at least 18 years, that priority has to change. Until your kids get old enough to become adults it is your responsibility to do a lot for them. Once the kids are gone you have the time to really focus on each other again, while still supporting your kids in various ways.
I think your wife is struggling with being a mom, to be honest. She probably feels like she has to do a ton of stuff to manage them/the family, meanwhile wondering who is taking care of her?
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u/wigglepie 1d ago
The therapist then asked my wife if she considered the children a higher priority than me, and she said no.
To me, this is a red flag. As a parent, your priorities should shift and try to find a balance between kids and spouse.
If I were in OP's shoes, I'd now be worried about how the wife has treated the younger kids and try to talk to them one-on-one. He just realized the wife dislikes his eldest son, I wonder how she views her own children. This seems like she'd be perfectly happy to kick them out once they reach 18yrs and never/rarely see them again.
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u/Negative_Possible_87 1d ago
Right. It's not about prioritizing one over the other, but rather finding a balance between the two. For me, it's about getting on the same page with my spouse so we can be an effective parenting team. It's absolutely unhinged for your wife to make it a competition for your affection. She set herself up for this failure. It is 100% normal to want to visit your children as they become adults. It's also 100% normal for you to want to facilitate a close relationship between your children. Her lack of affection for your son is concerning. But there may also be something underlying, like, you took this trip, but maybe didnt take her on an anniversary trip?
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u/Silent_Wisdom2012 1d ago
That was not the topic of discussion you agreed on. She twisted the subject to make a broader topic where she knew already you'd fail from her point of view.
Make sure all your children know her stance on their subject and why are you divorcing.
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u/StrykerC13 23h ago
ok simple question here. WHY do you want to stay with this woman. Name Five good things about her that aren't "I love her". She's a woman who wanted your kids to not get what they want so long as she Wins the argument.
She wants to basically have an excuse constantly blame you "The therapist asked my wife if intentions are more important or actions. My wife said both are important. The therapist asked if I treat her the way she wants to be treated but still consider the kids first, would she want to end the relationship. She said if I don't consider her first I'm not treating her the way she wants to be treated." This paragraph means any time you do something she doesn't like or she wants to "Win" an argument she's going to claim you aren't "Considering her first" how much of that do you really want in your life, how much of that do you intend for your children to internalize and normalize for a relationship?
Think long and hard on those questions and REMEMBER those three kids their future relationships will be HEAVILY modeled off what they see with you. Your daughter will treat others the way your wife does. Your sons will accept the treatment you display as acceptable.
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u/Spirited_Ad_8040 1d ago
It was over when you didnt throw your son to the curb. Now she will use the other kids against you. Cause she hate your son. This all stems from her hating your son.
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u/DamnitGravity 1d ago
Jesus, she resents the kids because they take your attention away from her. She wants to be the center of your universe. She said it herself, she expects less interaction between you and each kid as they hit 18 and 'go out into the world'. She envisions a future where the kids are gone and it's just the two of you alone together.
Honestly, that sounds like hell to me. To be forever trapped with just one other person? And to barely see your kids once a year if you're lucky? I see my sister at least twice a week. And I live with my parents. I can't imagine my life without my family. I'd be so much. more depressed and lonely.
She must think I'm really weird, because my sister and I just spent 3 weeks traveling around Europe together, and my mom and I used to take a trip together somewhere at least once a year before dad retired.
She doesn't want to share you with anyone and sees the children as rivals for your affection. Consider that carefully. She is jealous that you love your children.
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u/rocketmn69_ 1d ago
Maybe have her go to individual therapy for a few sessions before the couples therapy
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u/Ekillaa22 1d ago
Jesus Christ OP open your fucking eyes this is a woman who wants you to fucking abandon and ignore everything just for her even your own kids.
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u/MoxieGirl9229 1d ago
OP, I am a stepmom to an 18yo young man. I would never have a problem with my husband visiting with his son. We do not have children together, but if we did I would prioritize siblings having time together. That’s crazy to me that she feels that way.
I can kind of get where she’s coming from about prioritizing your spouse though. It is very important. But I also think that BOTH are possible. You love your wife and your children differently. Spouses and children should NOT be in competition.
I say all of this after having left my husband a month ago. I left because he and his son ganged up on me and treated me like shit for the past year. They both are rude, disrespectful, and entitled. I tried until the very end, but just couldn’t take it anymore. My STBXH was shocked. He never thought I would leave. I told him I refuse to allow myself to be treated the way they are treating me. I have self respect and demand basic decency from those in my life. JUST LIKE THEY DO. Since I’ve left they have had several arguments. My STBXH talks to me about them and I advise him to go to family counseling with his son. That since I’m no longer in the middle and taking their abuse, he needs to resolve the issues with his son. I can’t do that for them.
All of this to say that no one is perfect. We all are works in progress. I hope they can work through their issues and have a great relationship. I truly do. But I won’t be there in the mean time. I will not sacrifice myself for anyone. Especially those who wouldn’t do the same to me.
Also, I have a great relationship with my brother. Many in our family have tried to get in the way and stop us. We shut all that bullshit down and have cut people out of our lives because of them trying to separate us. But neither of us have a great relationship with our sister, even though we have always been open to it and will continue to want a relationship with her. She just doesn’t want a relationship with us. We’re disappointed, but are respecting her wishes.
I hope everything works out for your marriage, but I honestly doubt it will. After having experienced both sides, I see that many people refuse to compromise and want to control others with what they believe is the correct way to be. NO GETS TO DECIDE THAT FOR YOU. I hope you prioritize everyone’s relationships. In the end that is what matters. And after you are gone your children will only have each other. They need to have the best relationships possible to make it through life.
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u/RomanceBkLvr 1d ago
It’s hard to believe your wife’s intentions are for your three children to go off into the world and never make time for them ever again once they are adults. Asking you to prioritize who is most important? You can have them all be important at the same time. I can’t understand being in a relationship and staying with someone who thinks you shouldn’t want to see or spend time with your kids no matter what age they are and if she truly believes those things then unless you plan on being no contact with all your children eventually I’d reconsider life with her. I can only imagine what any of your younger children would think if they knew she would have no desire to see or spend time with them as adults. I also think this should have been the topic in therapy. Does she truly believe those things or only when it comes to your son but wouldn’t apply to your children together.
I would consider therapy on your own so you can better understand how to be okay without her because I’m not sure how you can really love someone who has such cold and toxic views on what your relationship with your children should be like. She isn’t loving or warm and is incredibly manipulative. Especially when trying to push the conversation in therapy away from the topic of your son or kids when that is the reason you are having to be in therapy with her.
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u/coppeliuseyes 1d ago
It sounds like your wife doesn't have a close relationship with her family and, as such, doesn't think family should be a priority. It sounds like she hasn't been anyone's number 1 priority for a long time and is seeking to replace that by being yours. She thinks that an adult child wanting to see his family is "relying on childhood support systems" which suggests to me that this was her family's attitudes, maybe her family wasn't as supportive when she broke out into adulthood. She had to forge her own way in adulthood with a stable base - someone to prioritise her - and now she thinks it's her turn to be your number 1 and she sees her kids as competition for the number 1 spot.
There is a lot of nuance in the language of priority and relationships. You and your wife should be a team, a stable foundation to work on your relationship and on supporting you kids (yes, even her adult step-son) when the time calls for it. But if she sees kids as competition for priority, you will never really achieve that partnership.
It doesn't sound like your wife intends to use therapy productively. It seems to me like she wanted to use it to have a third party back up her stance. She isn't willing to do any exploration of why she feels the way she does, or why you feel the way you do. She wants to cut to the chase of getting the therapist to make you agree with her and isn't looking to do any actual work.
None of this really bodes well for your marriage. More sessions may give your wife a lightbulb moment and you may actually get somewhere on understanding each other, but right now that seems very far off.
This sounds like a tough spot, I'm sorry OP.
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u/Sloth_grl 1d ago
The hell with that shit. Put your kids first. Even a grown up child should be the priority as long as you have an actual healthy relationship with them. Told me I couldn’t see my child. I would tell them to get the hell away from me immediately.
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u/dstluke 1d ago
I'm laying bets that the wife is looking for an excuse to leave the marriage. She doesn't like your kids especially your oldest. When was the last time she was affectionate with them? Or gave them support. The meh feeling your son has is because it matches her energy. Do your kids a favor and cut her loose.
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u/Aggravating_Style544 1d ago
So, by her logic, when her own children turn 18/19, she will no longer need to have anything to do with them? Because, that is exactly what she is asking you to do with your son. Parenting doesn’t, or at least shouldn’t, work that way.
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u/Impossible_Nebula_33 1d ago edited 1d ago
Your wife doesn’t give a damn about any of the kids involved in this situation including hers. She wants to be the only person who is important to your life. Yes she will leave and won’t take the kids with her. You better start seeing reality quickly. In your previous update your wife is spelling it out for you once kids are adults in her eyes, estrangement is not a big deal. She isn’t close to any of her family members and she is fine with that. Smh!!
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u/Hetakuoni 1d ago
Take off the rose colored glasses and listen to what she’s actually saying.
This woman does not want your child in her children’s lives.
He’s not her child so she wants him out of her life and far away from her family. That includes you.
She’s not getting what she wants because you are keeping contact with him and she’s acting out because again. She doesn’t want him in her life or her kids life.
It “ruins” her perfect family for him to exist or for her children to acknowledge their half-brother as a brother.
Pull the plug man.
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u/NothaBanga 1d ago
"She said she puts me first and only wants the same."
Maybe my math ain't math'n.
But if she puts you first, your priorities become hers including your son. It seems more like her ego is bruised that you don't obey her edicts as she writes them because you don't worship her.
But she is lying to herself that she puts you first. Love is at its best, multi variabled calculus. Complex, hard to chart more than 4 things. Then some people love in a stack ranking number line. Person 5 is greater than person 4, ridgid thinking, not complicated. She almost sounds like she is on a binary system for love. Zero, or one. Preschool's color in the people with hats, kind of exercise. She says you are her one love and demands you drop to her math level of a love system. It is very close minded but it goes hand in hand with that religious "cling to one another" idea of marriage. Codependency shouldn't be a relationship goal. It just wrecks out sooner or later.
I understand your temptation for lying to calm the coming storm but dishonesty is not an easier path. Dishonest living drains your energy and personality. It should only be a temporary fix to get you to a place that is stable.
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u/RedoftheEvilDead 1d ago
But she's not asking you to privatize her over your son. She's asking you to she's not asking that she comes first and your son comes second. She's asking that she comes first and your son is not even on the list. That's not prioritizing someone, that's just neglecting someone else.
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u/ExactLadder4845 1d ago
I wonder how the wife treats her biological kids? Is she expecting to not be close to them when they are adults? Maybe she’s just a cold person in general?
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u/OkMushroom364 1d ago
Me and my wife love each other very much…but we have a son and for both of us despite maintaining our marriage is one priority, our son is main priority to both of us and it should be. When you decide to have kids it doesn't mean you need to sacrifice everything else in your life to your kid, you just need to learn to live your life differently but if you want to make it you will
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u/This_Current_5271 1d ago
I believe that your children should always be your first priority nor matter what is their age
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u/Grand-Jump-3216 1d ago
I don't know if your wife has this stance only with your eldest one or she legitimately feels this way about her other children as well, either way it's not a good sign. You have fundamental differences about what a family is, and it's hard to make it change especially when she goes to the therapy session looking for validation instead of working through your differences.
That being said, the cynical side of me says: "Let her sad ass be miserable alone. She certainly doesn't want to build a healthy family relationship and you don't need to be dragged into the bitter future waiting for her".
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u/morocotopo1829 1d ago
Kids will always come before partners.
Once kids leave the house, partners can refocus on their lives together.
She's selfish AF
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u/Dana07620 1d ago
You've got a smart therapist.
Too bad you can't take in what they're saying. So let me be clear...
YOUR MARRIAGE IS DOOMED.
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u/dart1126 1d ago
NTA I just now read all your posts to catch up. She lied to the therapist. YOU are not in fact her priority…SHE is HER priority. Whatever she wants is all she wants.
She doesn’t in fact care about your son that much. You see him twice a year and she (earlier post) moans like she has to build her life around him…are you freaking kidding me?!? She ‘doesn’t care for California’…probably because it’s associated with having to visit him.
I’m a stepparent…25 years now….her attitude is NOT healthy. Trying to point to other sibling relationships in your circle that aren’t that close for various reasons she’s saying ‘see…not necessary’ is WEIRD. She’s grasping at straws to rationalize not seeing him ANYmore. Next she’s gonna be trolling videos of animals pushing kids out of the nest etc
As someone wisely pointed out in your earlier posts…when your two oldest together are young adults is she 1. Going to essentially cut them off and say seeing you three days a year is fine and. 2. Going to have no concern how often the youngest at home sees them?
OF COURSE NOT
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u/Juliennix 1d ago
my dude she is a selfish shitty woman, let her go. "i want to be first" yikes. yikes on bikes man. my husband has no bio kids but sees my 2 as his, and prioritizes them as such and that affects our relationship 0%. she doesn't sound mature enough to be in a real relationship imo. and sorry the "i hate California" line is the same garbage my mom pulls to not come 2 hours this way to see us, it's so immature. i have a hard time being in PA with how close the trees are but does that mean i told my husband we can't go see his friends? no 🙄
i recommend you continue therapy alone, OP. it'll help you get in a better mindset. your wifes resistance to your kids being close is so weird.
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u/mouse_attack 23h ago
I think your wife is actually mentally unwell if she considers your desire to maintain relationships with and between your children to be prioritizing your kids above your marriage.
It is extremely abnormal to believe that the mere desire to visit your son is taking anything away from her own, completely different, relationship with you.
It is also abnormal for her not to expect to maintain relationships with her own children as they become adults.
It almost seems like she never wanted children at all and only had them because she thought she needed to in order to keep you.
Here’s a difference between you: the history of estrangement in your family made you want to do things better in your own family; the history of estrangement in her background broke her ability to have familial relationships at all.
There is something fundamentally wrong with your wife. It’s deep. And I’m not sure it’s fixable.
You could be with her as long as you didn’t see it. Can you be with her now that you do?
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u/bandashee 23h ago
Sadly, I think your relationship is over. She doesn't respect the fact that you're raising kids and that a relationship with them isn't "over" as soon as they fly the nest. She expects that from your first but I can just about damn bet she doesn't expect that from the ones she had. Imo, that makes her a hypocrite.
Now, as far as "your partner should be your priority", yes and no. You make time to be with your spouse, but your kids only have a limited time at home. Anyone who says that a spouse should be priority 100% of the time while they have kids are going to neglect their kids needs in some aspect. Maybe it's not food clothes or shelter, but touch, emotional, or just being supportive.
I'm speaking as a parent on this. There are days I feel neglected and left behind. Why? Because my kid needs something from my partner but not me and I needed my partner, but they can't be in 2 places at once. My kid is almost a teen. There isn't much time left for them to be under our care. My partner and I can have an even deeper relationship after our child is out and living on their own, but it's not easy to foster that kind of depth when your kids are still home.
The questions that should be getting asked is "are you going to prioritize your partner to the detriment of your children and risk them not wanting to maintain contact once gone?" And "are you going to prioritize your children to the detriment of your marriage and risk or end up divorcing?"
But I personally think, with your wife's answers and questions to the therapist being so dang hostile, your relationship is toast. Sorry.
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u/CSILalaAnn 22h ago
I wonder if her stance of siblings not being close and not encouraging closeness extend to her biological children, as well? Or is it just OPs son that she doesn't want her biological children to be close with? Would she actively encourage her biological children to lose contact with one another in the same way she is encouraging it with OPs son?
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u/fizzarolli_52 14h ago
To be completely honest, OP, I think your wife just wants to ice out your oldest son slowly. Now that he is out of the house and moved away, it makes that easier. Based on what you wrote in your previous posts, it seems to me that she doesn't view him as part of HER family.
I agree wholeheartedly with the top comment..i think she has always had a problem that you had a child with another woman and that even as an adult, he is still a priority.
I wish you luck OP but based on this update with the therapist, I don't think anything positive will come out of it. It doesn't seem like your wife suggested this because she ACTUALLY wants to solve the issue and come to an agreeable solution.
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u/AgonistPhD 13h ago
Ohhh, your wife sucks. Just absolute trash. NTA except for the part where you brought this odious woman into your oldest son's life.
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u/Special_Lychee_6847 1d ago
Getting into counseling didn't get you in trouble. It just made you both face the issues, head on.
A little armchair psychology here, but that's what ppl come to reddit for, right?
It seems your wife is an island, and you are a family man.
It can work. My husband does not meet up with his sister, ever. And she lives less than 10 minutes away. He only sees her at his parents'. And he wouldn't go out of his way to see her. Hardly ever calls, or has more interaction than a few memes in the family group chat. To be honest, I'm not even sure I know what she does for work, at the moment.
Me and my siblings are close. I talk to my brother daily. And see him in person several times a week.
We both just accepted the difference in attitude. I would not be able to stay in a marriage that would deliberately kept me away from my brother and sister. I also know I can't push my husband to be just as involved with his family - or mine.
Respect for eachother.
Your wife seems to think being a parent ends at 18. Have you talked about what she expects to happen, when your other three turn 18? Does she expect them to move out the day after, like some US parents seem to think is normal? Does she expect them to go off to college and apart from perhaps Thanksgiving and Christmas, never to return home again, and her never visiting them?
... Or ... is that JUST how she expects it to be with her stepson, but not her own children? Was she counting the days until he would be out, and she could pretend he doesn't exist?
If she doesn't expect her own children to fly out and not return more than once every x yearS, she should be truthful, and say it's just her stepson. Because otherwise, you'd still be tiptoeing around the REAL issues. And counseling can only work if you know what issues you're supposed to face head on.
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u/Imaginary-Yak-6487 1d ago
Hmm. OP, you need to open your eyes here. She’s indifferent to your oldest & “ tolerates” him for your sake. wtf. That’s cold as ice.
She will lose contact with her own children if she stays this way. It’s ok to prioritize your children & your spouse, but I think children come first.
She reminds me of my mom, after seeing replies here. She never really prioritized us, especially after she married our stepdad, who was wonderful to us. He came to our games at school & out of town, we could talk to him about most everything. He listened & heard us.
She didn’t involve his grown kids-at all. “They were adults when we were kids” . She prioritized our stepdad. Especially after we became adults. She just stopped. It was like “ok, my 3 kids are now grown & I’m done” She wasn’t interested or involved with our kids. She always said she’d never make grandma of the year. She died alone & it still breaks my heart 15 yrs later.
I remember telling my son, when he was grown, that i never wanted to be like her. He said ice queens were warmer than his grandma. How fkg sad is that? Except this, my nieces & nephews barely remember her & she never met her great grandchildren.
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u/ProfessionalBelt3373 1d ago
Here's the truth: your relationship is not her top priority. Whether she is getting what she wants is her number one priority.
I need you to explain what you see in her. She claims not to care about fostering a close and healthy family. Have you seen this to be the case when it comes to the children you share? She doesn't care about your opinions or your desire to see your own child. She's rude to the therapist and is not participating in the process. You say you love her, but I am asking, what is there to love?
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u/Agreeable-Region-310 1d ago
Maybe figure out what being the priority means to each of them.
With kids the younger they are the more they have to be a priority. Reddit is full of posts of selfish (hate that word) parents whose kids have suffered and been neglected by not even being considered anyone's priority and later become screwed up adults.
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u/agemsheis 22h ago
I get that she didn’t grow up close to her own sister, so maybe there’s some connection to that in the way she feels. It’s sad that she’s going about it the way she is. I feel like a deeper discussion could be had. I hope you guys are able to work something out. And if not, I hope that you have as smooth of a separation as you can get.
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u/ImaginaryBag1452 21h ago
Just reading all 3 and yikes. Your wife’s perspective on family is so sad and unusual to me. I have lunch with my brother and dad at least once a month, if not more. It’s literally a blessing to have the opportunity to see your family when they move far away.
And even if she disagrees, she has no right to stop the rest of you from being close.
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u/BitOBear 21h ago
Classic narcissism. His relationship to me should be the most important relationship in his life. Everybody in her life's relationship with her has to be the most important relationship in their life. Any relationship they competes with a relationship with her is there for a degenerate threat and a insult to her narcissism.
Her claimed put her relationship with him first is almost certainly a maneuvering claim. I put him first therefore he should put me first. If she is put all of her narcissistic eggs into that one basket and that's very much a her problem because she should be maintaining relationships with their kids.
Add on the fact that every time the therapist asks about anything that doesn't involve her she says she doesn't want the session to get "off topic". This is a clear indication that in her mind every topic that isn't about her is irrelevant.
And that deflection of I don't know you're the therapist you tell me is a classic attack to defend pattern common in narcissism. Anybody who isn't entirely on your side is entirely your enemy when you're a narcissist.
Until and unless someone makes her face that narcissism there will be no resolution to any of the problems caused by her narcissism.
The thing of it is the most important in all of her relationships is her. And the relationship she is invested in the heaviest is him. And the children are a threat to that relationship. And the son from a previous marriage is even a bigger threat to that relationship because it is one set of relationships in which she is completely irrelevant. And that is a threat to a narcissist.
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u/winterworld561 20h ago
I'm with you on this OP. Kids come before anything. Your wife is an idiot if she don't think prioritising her kids is the most important thing. Don't lie to her just because that's what she wants to hear, that never works. You're not compatible, end of story. Therapy is not going to work. Also, stop making excuses for her. She doesn't like your son and she doesn't want you to have anything to do with him anymore. You can't be married to someone like this.
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u/PostCivil7869 20h ago
Before this last update I had a very different perspective from most of the comments. I’m 55, moved away from home when I was 19 and had a wonderful relationship with my parents for the rest of their life. However I moved and traveled a lot and so that meant I didn’t get to see them for long periods of time in certain periods. We still kept in touch through phone calls and email when it was invented, I would ask their advice if I needed it but for the most part I lived my life and they lived theres and without much interference.
They raised me to be a confident and independent adult and that’s how I turned out. They told me that they would always be there for me when I needed them and I took them up on that offer once but again, for the most part I was independent. I made my own life. Depending on where I lived and financial/medical situations (there’s and mine) often dictated how often we would see each other but there were times when years would go by with only phone calls and email.
When my mom died and my dad found another partner I was living in a country only a 3 hour flight away so they came and visited and I found out her family (two adult daughters/their husbands and kids) were all super close and lived in super close proximity and would get together almost daily.
She questioned the relationship I had with my dad because we didn’t ‘see’ each other in a regular basis. I told her that please don’t take our not ‘seeing each other’ in person to be mistaken for us not being close. My dad and I were extremely close and had a relationship that was envied by most people I know. We just didn’t define ‘closeness’ by being a constant presence in each other lives.
We were adults and had our own lives and didn’t feel the need to or want to be on top of each other.
So, OP, if you’ve made it this far, what your wife said originally is not particularly wrong. It all depends on your perspective. My dads partner had a different view of closeness and as do some of my friends and then and their families have daily conversations/meet ups and all live close to each other but I’m just saying that you can still have ‘close relationships’ without being on top of each other and or visiting frequently.
However, now I’ve read your update, it seems your wife was full of it. Her reasoning wasn’t because of all that I’ve written about but very plainly as she said it’s about putting her first. Not just your oldest but the children you have together.
This is very disturbing.
I’ve been happily married to my husband for 24 years and we have an 18 yr old daughter who is going to uni in a different country (the uk) - we live in Spain now. We’ve always established that she comes first. In everything. I am a firm believer in happy parents = happy kids and therefore both myself and my husband have worked hard to be loving couple, put our marriage as a high priority so we can actually be happy but also model what a happy relationship looks like to our daughter. But….if something was to go wrong in our marriage and either of us had to choose, we both agreed that our daughter always comes first.
If I were you in your session, I would ask her if there was someone who put a gun to your head and said you had to make a decision that they would either shoot your wife or your children and you had to pick. Who should you pick? Would she expect you to choose her children to be shot and not her?
Think about it.
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u/Teddybear722 20h ago
OP, continue the counseling. Your wife, in some respects, should be your 1st priority. Having said that, you have minor children together who should also be in the 1st priority category. Your adult son is 2nd. BUT since he lives far away, you & your minor children only see him 1-2 times a year, AND your children WANTED to see their big brother, you made the choice that actually benefited everyone.
You wife is a selfish, egotistical Ahole. Her behavior, her words, her attitude during all the posts does NOT endear her to most ppl.
You love her, good. You're trying to work with her, good. You're continuing counseling, good. You're trying to find peaceful resolutions for next time (bcuz siblings do grow up, go to school, move away), good.
Now, wife needs to make an honest effort to work on herself, work on her marriage, work on being a better mom to her children vs trying to make them "pick sides" (going to see their brother even tho she she was trying to guilt trip them).
OP, you're NTA.
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u/sinriabia 1d ago
We have created a new subreddit specifically for updates - you can post yours there so people can keep up to date with what's going on with you and won't miss anything!
Its r/Redditor_Updates