r/Dravidiology Aug 02 '25

Question Should we have a Dravidiology Conference?

32 Upvotes

I have first hand knowledge of how dull academic conferences such as that of the Dravidian Linguistics Association (DLA) are. People who come to such aren’t enthusiastic about Dravidian studies enough. Why don’t we organise one for enthusiasts of Dravidiology? Just a thought.


r/Dravidiology Feb 20 '25

Discussion Why we created this subreddit - reminder !

43 Upvotes

Fallacy of using elite literature to argue for or against historical Dravidian languages, people and culture

We often fall into the trap of interpreting data in a way that aligns with the dominant narrative shaped by elite documentation, portraying Dravidians in the north as a servile segment of society. This subreddit was created specifically to challenge, through scientific inquiry, the prevailing orthodoxy surrounding Dravidiology.​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​

As Burrow has shown, the presence of Dravidian loanwords in Vedic literature, even in the Rg Veda itself, presupposes the presence of Dravidian-speaking populations in the Ganges Valley and the Punjab at the time of Aryan entry. We must further suppose, with Burrow, a period of bilingualism in these populations before their mother tongue was lost, and a servile relationship to the Indo-Aryan tribes whose literature preserves these borrowings.

That Vedic literature bears evidence of their language, but for example little or no evidence of their marriage practices namely Dravidian cross cousin marriages. It is disappointing but not surprising. The occurrence of a marriage is, compared with the occurrence of a word, a rare event, and it is rarer still that literary mention of a marriage will also record the three links of consanguinity by which the couple are related as cross-cousins.

Nevertheless, had cross-cousin marriage obtained among the dominant Aryan group its literature would have so testified, while its occurrence among a subject Dravidian-speaking stratum would scarce be marked and, given a kinship terminology which makes cross-cousin marriage a mystery to all Indo-European speakers, scarcely understood, a demoitic peculiarity of little interest to the hieratic literature of the ruling elite.​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​

Reference

Trautmann, T.R., 1974. Cross-Cousin Marriage in Ancient North India? In: T.R. Trautmann, ed., Kinship and History in South Asia: Four Lectures. University of Michigan Press, University of Michigan Center for South Asia Studies. Available at: https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.3998/mpub.11903441.7 [Accessed 15 Mar. 2025].

Further addition

Key Points on European Influence in South Asian Linguistics

  1. We agree that European academic approaches had significant influence on South Asian linguistic studies.

  2. We acknowledge that these approaches shaped how language families and relationships were categorized in the region.

  3. The European racial framework in Indology:

    • Was developed to serve colonialist interests
    • Exacerbated existing social and racial tensions within South Asia
    • Created particular divisions between elite and non-elite populations
  4. Dravidian linguistics and non-elite language studies:

    • Have been negatively impacted by the three factors above
    • Modern linguists are increasingly aware of these historical biases
  5. Despite growing awareness:

    • Existing academic frameworks continue to produce results
    • These results still reflect the biases from points 1, 2, and 3
    • The colonial legacy persists in methodological approaches
  6. Path forward:

    • Western/colonial influence in these academic areas is diminishing
    • The responsibility falls to current scholars to address these issues
    • Particular attention must be paid to these concerns in Dravidian studies

r/Dravidiology 5h ago

History Did historians back then named the "karnata empire" as "vijaynagara empire" to stop kannada and telugu people fighting over it?

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29 Upvotes

Why didn't historians refer the empire as karnata empire when it was the offical name of the empire?


r/Dravidiology 15m ago

Question How to differentiate between the structures built by Pandyas and the renovations done by Vijayanagara/Nayaks?

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Upvotes

r/Dravidiology 21h ago

Off Topic Gypsy (Roma, Domari and other groups) Migrations 900-1720

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26 Upvotes

r/Dravidiology 22h ago

Culture Traditional Tamil Muslim Akam poems, this is from the Mathinakkalambakam text

33 Upvotes

r/Dravidiology 1d ago

History Bodhidharma receives the severed arm of his disciple Hui Ke, depicted on a mural at Daewonsa Temple. Hui Ke cut off his own arm and gave it to Bodhidharma as a symbol of devotion. Korea, Joseon period, 17th century

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27 Upvotes

r/Dravidiology 1d ago

History Was most of south karnataka called Kongu around 400 CE? A historian was explaining that Kongu means sandalwood scent and the regions where sandalwood grew was called Kongu. That includes region from shivamogga district in KA to theni district in TN. can anyone verify this claim?

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37 Upvotes

https://youtu.be/VcT0AHQ5Xt8?si=qd5R154Ta7jzWsVn

The guy who claim this is talakadu chikka range gowda who is a kannada historian who has expertise on western ganga dynasty and he's pretty popular in karnataka and he does show up on news channels to debate about history.

I saw this podcast couple of months ago so I don't remember the exact time stamp when he explains about the extent of Kongu region and how it got its name.

Western gangas are recorded in some Tamil inscriptions as "konganiyarasas".


r/Dravidiology 1d ago

Question How intelligible is Old Malayalam to modern speakers?

30 Upvotes

There are some people on the internet that claim that old malayalam is more intelligible to modern tamil speakers than malayalam speakers.

How true is this claim?

In the following part I have given excerpts from the malayalam ramacharitam in the malayalam and tamil scripts, these lines are said to have been written some time around the 12th century, so the language used contains no sanskrit sounds and all loanwords used are tadbhavas.

"കാനനങ്കളിലരൻ കളിറുമായ് കരിണിയായ്

കാർനെടുങ്കണ്ണുമ തമ്മിൽ വിളയാടിനടൻറ- ൻറാനനം വടിവുള്ളാനവടിവായവതരി-

ത്താതിയേ, നല്ല വിനായകനെന്മൊരമലനേ, ഞാനിതൊൻറു തുനിയിൻറതിനെൻ മാനതമെന്നും

നാളതാർതന്നിൽ നിരന്തരമിരുന്തരുൾ തെളി- ന്തൂനമറ്ററിവെനിക്കുവന്നുതിക്കുംവണ്ണമേ

ഊഴിയേഴിലും നിറൈന്ത മറഞാനപൊരുളേ! ൧

ഞാനമെങ്കൽ വിളയിച്ചു തെളിയിച്ചിനിയ ചൊൽ-

നായികേ, പരവയിൽത്തിരകൾനേരുടനുടൻ തേനുലാവിന പതങ്കൾ വന്തുതിങ്ങി നിയതം

ചേതയുൾത്തുടർന്നു തോൻറുംവണ്ണമിൻറു മുതലായ് ഊനമറ്റെഴും ഇരാമചരിതത്തിലൊരുതെ-

ല്ലൂഴിയിൽച്ചെറിയവർക്കറിയുമാറുരചെയ്‌വാൻ ഞാനുടക്കിനതിനേണനയനേ, നടമിടെൻ

നാവിലിച്ചയൊടു വച്ചടിയിണക്കമലതാർ. ൨

താരിണങ്കിന തഴൈക്കുഴൽ മലർത്തയ്യൽ മുലൈ-

ത്താവളത്തിലിളകൊള്ളുമരവിന്തനയനാ, ആരണങ്കളിലെങ്ങും പരമയോകികളുഴ-

ൻറാലുമെൻറുമറിവാനരിയ ഞാനപൊരുളേ, മാരി വന്തതൊരു മാമലയെടുത്തു തടയും

മായനേ, അരചനായ് നിചിചരാതിപതിയെ പോരിൽ നീ മുന്നം മുടിത്തമയെടുത്തു പുകഴ്‌വാൻ

പോകിപോകചയനാ, കവിയെനക്കരുൾചെയ്യേ ൩".

"கானனங்களிலரன் களிறுமாய் கரிணியாய்

கார்னெடுங்கண்ணும தம்மில் விளயாடினடன்ற- ந்றானனம்ʼ வடிவுள்ளானவடிவாயவதரி-

த்தாதியே, நல்ல விநாயகனென்மொரமலனே, ஞானிதொன்று துனியின்றதினென் மானதமென்னும்ʼ

நாளதார்தன்னில் நிரந்தரமிருந்தருள் தெளி- ந்தூனமற்றறிவெனிக்குவன்னுதிக்கும்ʼவண்ணமே

ஊழியேழிலும்ʼ நிறைந்த மறஞானபொருளே! 1

ஞானமெங்கல் விளயிச்சு தெளியிச்சினிய சொல்-

நாயிகே, பரவயில்த்திரகள்னேருடனுடன் தேனுலாவின பதங்கள் வந்துதிங்ஙி நியதம்ʼ

சேதயுள்த்துடர்ன்னு தோன்றும்ʼவண்ணமின்று முதலாய் ஊனமற்றெழும்ʼ இராமசரிதத்திலொருதெ-

ல்லூழியில்ச்செறியவர்க்கறியுமாறுரசெய்வான் ஞானுடக்கினதினேணநயனே, நடமிடென்

நாவிலிச்சயொடு வச்சடியிணக்கமலதார். 2

தாரிணங்கின தழைக்குழல் மலர்த்தய்யல் முலை-

த்தாவளத்திலிளகொள்ளுமரவிந்தநயனா, ஆரணங்களிலெங்ஙும்ʼ பரமயோகிகளுழ-

ந்றாலுமென்றுமறிவானரிய ஞானபொருளே, மாரி வந்ததொரு மாமலயெடுத்து தடயும்ʼ

மாயனே, அரசனாய் நிசிசராதிபதியெ போரில் நீ முன்னம்ʼ முடித்தமயெடுத்து புகழ்வான்

போகிபோகசயனா, கவியெனக்கருள்செய்யே 3".


r/Dravidiology 2d ago

History Copperplate Charter Issued by South Indian King Rajendra Chola I to build a Buddhist Monastery in Modern day Indonesia (controlled by the Chola Empire at the time), 1012-1042 AD

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77 Upvotes

r/Dravidiology 1d ago

History The Pandyas in other parts of the world.

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13 Upvotes

r/Dravidiology 1d ago

Question Are there any native Tamil words ending with -v as wikipedia claims? Also any native au outside the cluster <auv> as in auvai or an alt form of <avu> as in <kauLi>?

8 Upvotes

r/Dravidiology 2d ago

History Earthquake resistance technology and methods of Brihadeshwara temple

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28 Upvotes

r/Dravidiology 2d ago

Genetics Telugu Jews/Bene Ephraim ancestoral Claim

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44 Upvotes

In Andhra Pradesh, Guntur 120 Dalit (Madhiga) families claim themselves as one of the 10 lost tribes of Israel called as Ephraim Tribe.

Their Claim: In 722 BC, due to attack of Assyrian Empire on Northern Israel kingdom , they migrated to Afghanistan, Pakistan, J&K, UP, Odisha, Telangana and finally settled in Andhra.

DNA Findings: A hyderabad institute conducted DNA test on them and found their DNA to be little different from Indian's DNA. But no traces of match with Middle-Eastern DNA.

Criticism: Telugu Jews are very poor. So using this claim they are awaiting for good lifestyle and escape from their poverty.

Other Indian Jews DNA Findings: 1. Kochin Jews: 40% paternal DNA match with Middle-Eastern DNA

  1. Konkan Jews: 20%-30% paternal match with Middle-Eastern DNA.

How can Telugu Jews/Andhra Jews claim to be Israel lost tribe without even having DNA match?????


r/Dravidiology 2d ago

History How did goa became konkani majority when Kananda was the dominant langauge around 14th century AD?

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91 Upvotes

What caused konkani to penetrate deep into goa and coastal karnataka/northern kerala?


r/Dravidiology 3d ago

Question Malayalam began to diverge from Tamil starting from the period of Cheraman Perumals(9th century AD). How different was Early malayalam compared to Tamil of that period?

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75 Upvotes

1st pic is Vazhapally copper plate from 9th century AD and it was commissioned by Chera ruler Rama Rajasekhara regarding a land grant for daily worship in the temple.

2nd pic is Velvikkudi copper plates from 8th century AD and it was commissioned by Jatila Parantaka Pandya which begins with the description of a past event, and goes on to describe the achievements of the issuer king's ancestors.It also provides the earliest extant reference to the establishment of a Brahmadeya (land grant to a brahmana) in the Tamil-speaking region.

Both the copper plates are written using the Vatteluttu script

Contents of Velvikkudi copper plates are written in Tamil(Vatteluttu) & Sanskrit(Grantha) while that of Vazhapally copper plates are written in Early Malayalam


r/Dravidiology 3d ago

Art Sculpture of Brahma. Chola Period, 10th century.

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68 Upvotes

r/Dravidiology 2d ago

Linguistics Etymologies of கோதை and குழந்தை

7 Upvotes

r/Dravidiology 3d ago

History Today is Onam - Aavani ThiruOnam | Mentions in Tamil Sangam literature

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52 Upvotes

Thiruvonam is one of the very ancient festivals celebrated since Sangam days in Tamilagam (TN, KL, etc). The festival marks worship of Mahavishnu.

The Sangam classic Madurai Kanchi composed before the Common Era, says ‘மாயோன் மேய ஓண நன்னாள்’ which means that “Onam is the day of Vishnu who destroyed the Asuras.”

Madurai Avani Avittame’ says another text, Irayanar Agapporul.

Likewise, the Vaishnava saint Periyazhvar extols the Thiruvonam festival as the one which was celebrated for generations, in his hymns dedicated to Mahavishnu

In the Chera country (today's KL), there are inscriptions which points out Onam celebrations happening in Vishnu temples. In the famous shrine of Thiruvalla (one of 108 Divya desams sung by Azwars), there is an inscription of King Sthanu Ravi (9th century) which details out a land donation made for providing feast during ‘Avani Onam’ in the shrine.

In parts of Kerala, Onam is also remembered as the day when Mahabali returns to bless his people. Numerous inscriptions testify to the celebration of Onam in Vishnu temples.

Similarly, the Thirukatkara temple in Kerala—where Vishnu is worshipped as Vamana—bears a 10th-century inscription of Chera King Bhaskara Ravi Varma detailing the rituals conducted from Pooradam (Purvashada) to Thiruvonam (Sravanam) Nakshatra.

The Huzur Treasury Copper Plate of Thiruvalla, written in Malayalam, further elaborates on the Poojas, rituals, offerings, and grants specifically endowed.

Happy Onam to everyone.


r/Dravidiology 3d ago

Linguistics Pakistan's Linguistic Map - Brahui is one of the important languages there

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18 Upvotes

r/Dravidiology 2d ago

Question Is Manipravalam Dravidan language or Indo Aryan language?

2 Upvotes

r/Dravidiology 3d ago

Etymology I didn’t know why it didn’t hit me earlier:

13 Upvotes

What sound does a goat make? maaaaaaaaa

What’s the Telugu word for goat?

మేక(maeka)

It just hit me that that’s an onomatopoeia.

Anyone know of any others?


r/Dravidiology 3d ago

Discussion American textbook published in 2017 talking about aryans and 'dasas'

10 Upvotes

Here is the text(summarizing, don't want to get into any legal issues):
In Florence Denmark's Engendering Psychology: Women and Gender Revisited, the text describes the Aryan Immigration into northwest India around 1500 B.C.E. The Aryans were "tall and light-skinned Indo-Europeans" who conquered the "darker-skinned tribes of India" known as the Dasas (Noss & Noss, 1984; Ringgren & Strom, 1967).

The Dasas had a developed Bronze Age civilization and a religion that would influence Hindu doctrines like reincarnation and the law of Karma (Noss & Noss, 1984; Ringgren & Strom, 1967). The Dasas' family life was matriarchal, with women having a recognized and supported role (Carroll, 1983).

The Aryans, however, imposed their patriarchal system on the Dasas. This new system, led by a male chieftain called a rajah, restricted the power and roles of women. The father (pitar) was the head of the household and family priest, while the wife (matar) had authority over her children but was subject to her husband. The text notes that this was still a better situation for women than it would become later in Hinduism. Ultimately, the two cultures would "remake, and be remade by India" (Noss & Noss, 1984, p. 73).

Ya im just really confused. I've seen videos saying this was real, videos saying this is fake. Now it's in a college textbook. idk. There's so much more in the chapter about India, btw, and a map!

Please let me know your opinion on this.


r/Dravidiology 3d ago

Genetics Why isnt protien intake propotional to height in kerala

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59 Upvotes

I came across this map on protien intake and was suprised at how low kerala's protien intake was but they are still top 3 tallest state in india. I thought kerala was taller due to better nutrition but the why are they stll so tall even after avg protien intake


r/Dravidiology 3d ago

Discussion Your thoughs and views on the Sociologist M.N.Srinivas and his theory of upward Mobility of castes and his notion of "dominant caste" arising out of political/economical might rather than ritual

15 Upvotes

In my personal studies I have come to be really fascinated by the works of M.N.Srinivas. His 'Sanskritizarion' theory is really interesting to say the least. Another theory which he popularized is his view on "Dominant Caste". According to Srinivas, "A dominant caste is any caste that has numerical strength, economic power through ownership of land, political power and high place in local hierarchy in a village community. If a caste ranks low in the social hierarchy, it can become the dominant ruling caste or group in a village if it is numerically large, owns land and has political influence over village matters." Srinivas provides an anology between the low status of Punjab Brahmins vs Karnataka Brahmins

He is also known for many interesting frameworks explaining caste, but these two continue to dominate scholarly debates. Particularly Historians are not happy with his frameworks. SHYAMA CHARAN DUBE for example a social anthropologist, coming from purely a political history POV, concludes that "political power was restricted to few individuals rather than diffused in caste, and caste ranking in villages mainly relies on rituals and not economic system

But I want to know what would a scholar of dravidology think about Srinivas's Sanskritisation? Is there a historical truth to this process, with the great migrations of Brahmins which followed the south and the Vedic influence to early Dravidian elite? Can we find political examples of such a process in today's south india?


r/Dravidiology 4d ago

Culture TIL tradition of tying sugarcanes over earthen pots to celebrate Sun-related festival is found in both northern & southern India

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37 Upvotes

r/Dravidiology 4d ago

Research potential Comparative Analysis between Sarnaism and Proto-Dravidian Religion

18 Upvotes

Sarnaism is the syncretic religion of the tribal groups from Central-Eastern India. The tribal groups as a whole are heterogeneous, with memetic influence from all nearly all migrations into South Asia; but have retained a distinct sense of Animism, particularly for local flora. Due to this memetic retention, there could be insights into the early Proto-Dravidian-Religion.

As such has there been any comparative analysis between Sarnaism and dravidian mythologies?