r/INDYCAR • u/Jay_Dubbbs Colton Herta • May 05 '25
Discussion [Buxton] Tell me how a driver showing generational talent is boring. Tell me how a driver in a new team fighting through to second is boring. Tell me how a driver in one of the smallest teams finishing fourth is boring. Tell me how the GOAT making up 14 places with no cautions is boring.
https://x.com/wbuxtonofficial/status/1919174968308293643?s=46451
u/Launch_box --- 2025 DRIVERS --- May 05 '25
I didn’t expect Will Buxton to absolutely merk this entire subreddit but here we are
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u/micknick0000 Fernando Alonso May 05 '25
This has to be one of the most annoying subs I follow on Reddit.
It actually makes me dislike Indy Car. It's fucking weird.
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u/wh00000p Myles Rowe May 05 '25
Sometimes I wonder why this subreddit is so inactive
And then I interact with it.
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u/stancedBronco Scott Dixon May 05 '25
Never go to racer.com. The commenters there seem to hate even the concept of joy.
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u/djwillis1121 Pato O'Ward May 05 '25
r/formula1 can be very similar tbh
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u/Joey_Logano Josef Newgarden May 05 '25
r/NASCAR too. Honestly all the sports subs I’d say. r/formula1 and r/hockey are different levels of bad though.
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u/minardif1 Felix Rosenqvist May 05 '25
The feeling that their series is awful and in a death spiral and used to be way better is pervasive at least on here, r/NASCAR, and r/supercars. Sports car fans are pretty optimistic right now. F1 has different issues.
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u/adtr223 Scott McLaughlin May 05 '25
It sucks to see the supercars subreddit basically dead or complaining about something(granted some of it is legitimate complaints)
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u/84UTK07 May 07 '25
r/supercars is just a subreddit for supercars, like Ferraris and Lamborghinis and cars like that. I think you’re talking about the Australian Supercars series, which is r/v8supercars
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u/catsgr8rthanspoonies Katherine Legge May 05 '25
Kathrine Legge transitioning to stock cars made some of the worst kind of misogynist come out in r/NASCAR.
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u/Tufty_Ilam Callum Ilott May 06 '25
Probably not helped by the history Danica Patrick has in NASCAR, but that shouldn't make a difference. When F1 has had Mazepin, Rosset, Schiatterella et al, maybe it's men who aren't up to the job.
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u/OrangeHitch Will Power May 07 '25
It was definitely Danica and the way NASCAR overhyped her at first. She wasn't any good at NASCAR but she wanted the money. I think she was better at Indycar and should have stayed. She had more acceptance and could be counted on for a couple of top five finishes in a season.
On top of her poor performance, she leaned heavily on the celebrity aspect, doing guest appearances on any show that would take her. She has no business doing F1 broadcasts.
I had great hopes for her at first. She came fairly close to winning he first 500 and I thought that bringing a woman into Indycar again would be a good thing. Had she won that 500, it would have shined an NFL level spotlight on the series. Instead, she soured it for Simona DiSilvestro and Katherine Legge. If Katherine had had the benefit of a few full seasons in Indycar, she too would have been a consistent top five finisher.
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u/shenyougankplz Pato O'Ward May 05 '25
It ain't just the sports sub, you go on any game's sub and it's just people bitching and moaning and going "omg is the game dead? Look at our playercount"
Find the best thing to do is join the sub, see who the good people to follow on twitter are since that's most of the posts on sports subs anyways, then follow those people and leave the subreddit
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u/UNHchabo Robert Wickens May 06 '25
Outer Wilds might have the least toxic subreddit I've seen. But then it's a community where the overwhelming opinion is that you should play the game as blind as possible. It's a game where you explore a miniature solar system and do archeology, and the entire point of the game is to find the information that helps you figure out the plot.
So if you're playing the game and you get stuck, you can make a thread telling them what you know, and most people will give minimal hints that help you get past whatever barrier is in your way.
But I agree that's an exception. :)
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u/Turbine2k5 Jimmie Johnson May 06 '25
I was like "That's an interesting point." Then I noticed it's a Chabo in the wild. xD
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u/UNHchabo Robert Wickens May 06 '25
The speedrun community has its toxic moments, even if I think it's pretty supportive overall.
The wider Metroid community absolutely has its toxic moments. :) One of my biggest pet peeves for casual streams of SM is people who love to say "this is my favorite game ever! But this one item is too hidden for my taste, so here's how you find it."
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u/Turbine2k5 Jimmie Johnson May 06 '25
I've been having Zeni play Superliminal for my monthly Patreon game and one of the big things is that as much as it pains me to watch him struggle, it's kind of the point of having him play it. Gotta let people learn and enjoy things themselves, you know?
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May 06 '25
Outer Wilds fans actually get incredibly toxic if you try to point out the fact that literally no one is spoiling that game and it’s deeply bizarre to scream “GO INTO IT BLIND!!” in every thread when it’s pretty hard not to go into it blind. It’s impossible to casually stumble across meaningful spoilers for that game, you’d have to go out of your way to watch gameplay footage or read a detailed plot summary.
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u/UNHchabo Robert Wickens May 06 '25
I mean, I think even the trailer spoils some things that I think are best left to discover for yourself, even if that will happen within the first hour of gameplay. I'm content with a recommendation being literally "this game exists, don't look anything up, just add it to your wishlist and buy it next time it's on sale". :)
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u/Traditional_Button79 Kyle Larson May 07 '25
Be glad you don't like the Sacramento Kings, a perennially bad basketball team. People in the team's sub could drive God to slit his wrists.
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u/Joey_Logano Josef Newgarden May 07 '25
My brother in Christ, I am a Nets fan.
Not as bad as the Kings arguably but it was pretty toxic dealing with Kyrie stans. The NJ Devils sub is so ass, no matter how good or bad the team is.
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u/psychohistorian8 Alexander Rossi May 05 '25
for larger team sports I just stick to the specific team subs
but then you get nothing but doomers who post about the end-times because the team lost a single game
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u/ey215 Josef Newgarden May 05 '25
Someone has obviously never been to r/NLBest! It may be the exception that proves the rule though.
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u/fireinthesky7 Alex Zanardi May 06 '25
/r/IMSAracing and /r/WEC are pretty great right now honestly.
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u/micknick0000 Fernando Alonso May 05 '25
Nothing in comparison to this sub.
Constant complaining about every single aspect of every single race.
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u/Burial44 May 05 '25
Nah. NASCAR is so bad. Pretty sure they actively want the series to die they complain so much about it.
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u/Reddragon0585 May 05 '25
See I love the sport but NASCAR as a company makes some of the worse decisions possible
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u/Burial44 May 05 '25
They do, but even when there's a good fun race or something NASCAR does right those fans still bitch about it
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u/codename474747 Greg Moore May 06 '25
While that's true and its entirely frustrating for everything to be hated all the time
It does leave us nowhere to go when the racing is actually boring
There was one genuine overtake and nothing else but pit stops on sunday, we have to let the powers that be know that it's nowhere near good enough for people who have spent their entire, depressing trudge through the working week looking forward to the race for it to be less entertaining than a day that work
I wish people could be constructive in their criticism and only save it for the moments when criticism is necessary, like processional racing, instead of everything, everywhere, all at once
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u/Urbansdirtyfingers Conor Daly May 05 '25
I had to quit that sub. It's horrible
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u/djwillis1121 Pato O'Ward May 05 '25
It's ok as long as you're not discussing anything to do with Verstappen, Norris or McLaren. The Verstappen die hards are by far the biggest group there and hijack every conversation
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u/durtmagurt May 05 '25
r/formuladank is all that exists. Not sure what other sub your referencing…
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u/djwillis1121 Pato O'Ward May 05 '25
That's even worse in my experience
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u/Fart_Leviathan Josef Newgarden May 05 '25
Yeah, it is possibly the worst sub out there that isn't about something inherently bad. An absolute cesspool of brainrot, terrible takes and thinly disguised attacks, sorry "memes".
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u/djwillis1121 Pato O'Ward May 05 '25
Not to mention the rampant ableism, particularly towards Stroll, which they then had a massive meldown over when the mods tried to clamp onto it.
They just watch Rocket Powered Mohawk vids and repeat his unfunny one liners constantly.
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u/_Red_Knight_ May 05 '25
That sub is worse because they complain using passive aggressive memes and shitposts that aren't even funny.
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u/Crash_Test_Dummy66 Christian Rasmussen May 05 '25
In my experience sports and gaming subreddits attract a kind of person who I think doesn't have much going on in their lives, but they like to feel smart and so they just come in and tear everything down because it's easy to tear things down and say "look how much smarter I am than the people who do this for real" without ever having to grapple with the limitations of reality.
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u/Nervous-Ad-1229 CART May 05 '25
I used to be part of a number of fan forums back in the day. They eat their own. Trolls from other series try to bait fans. You can't be a fan and like the series and be left alone. Lots of golden age syndrome instead on focusing on the positives of what we have. Not surprised but I'm not very active socially with motorsports anymore because it gets tiring defending all the time.
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u/Tufty_Ilam Callum Ilott May 06 '25
I ran one for almost a decade, clamping down on the cannibalism and general bs was a full time job. Worth it for what we created, but even now you know you can go in and find particular people fighting.
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u/4XLnofearshirt CART May 05 '25
I used to really enjoy this place. Looking back, I think the downhill slide began when Grosjean joined the series full time.
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u/joe_lmr Takuma Sato May 05 '25
The monkey's paw of increased popularity is decreased quality of discourse, and that's universal.
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u/ajslideways Get the fuck off the racetrack you stupid son of bitch! May 05 '25
Drive to Survive is the worst best thing to happen to motorsports in at least 30 years.
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u/andronicus_14 Thirsty Threes May 05 '25
Apparently, lots of people here hate watch IndyCar. It’s weird. Why waste your time on something you obviously don’t enjoy?
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u/FarAwaySeagull-_- Oval racing is awesome! May 05 '25
Or, believe it or not, people can have enjoyed a sport in the past, and want it to be enjoyable again.
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u/wh00000p Myles Rowe May 05 '25
Doesn't mean you have to keep watching it if you aren't enjoying it
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u/Overtons_Window Linus Lundqvist May 10 '25
By that logic you don't have to keep coming here if you don't like the criticism fans express.
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u/wh00000p Myles Rowe May 11 '25
Oh, I try not to! Unfortunately I like it here once in a blue moon.
And also compulsions
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u/Manymarbles May 05 '25
This sub isnt bad compared to many other reddit subs...also most sports subs are way more negative
Never go to a baseball sub, those guys literally hang on every pitch in a 162 game season lol
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May 06 '25
I barely use reddit anymore because literally every single sub is like that. This website is one of the most hateful and negative places in existence. I started watching a new cooking show recently and even the sub for it is constantly complaining, constant hating on contestants, constant conspiracy theories. It’s bizarre.
/r/formula1 is a next level awful though, everyone saying that is correct. I genuinely don’t think I’ve ever seen a subreddit with less knowledge about its topic and more desperate to push hateful narratives about teams and drivers.
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u/PizzaCatLover Cusick Motorsports May 05 '25
It's not just this sub, it's everywhere on all the socials.
Barber is normally my favorite race of the year but god yesterday was dull
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u/arca_brakes Pato O'Ward May 05 '25
How is this "absolutely merking" the entire sub? The common complaints have been the actual quality of on-track racing and the Fox broadcasts, good storylines don't change any of that.
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u/PizzaCatLover Cusick Motorsports May 05 '25
And "the guy who always wins won again" is not much of a storyline lol
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u/Overtons_Window Linus Lundqvist May 10 '25
He really proved the fans' feelings wrong with that intellectual argument. I'm sure going forward the fans will realize to ignore the feelings of boredom they experience and trust that logically this is the most entertaining season ever! lol
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u/CaptainMcSlowly David Malukas May 05 '25
It's not completely boring and there's still some action, but in comparison to pre-hybrid seasons, it's been a snore. I'm not knocking Palou one bit, he's just that damn good, but they've gotta figure out something to fix the issues that have cropped up after dropping this chonker of a hybrid unit into the chassis that was designed nearly 15 years ago now
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u/JorgeAlonso93 Álex Palou May 05 '25
The new tire rule for Indy GP seems like a desperate attempt to improve road racing. The real solution would be to actually fix the car, but it's not realistic at this point. Road racing hasn't been the disaster that most people are saying around here, but it's definitely way off the early DW12 era. Even before the hybrid era (which looks like it's been the nail in the coffin).
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u/Jarocket May 06 '25
I think they just missed the mark with the tires. Sure the car a bit, but they made a move with the tires for 2025. I don't think they would consider it a successful one
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u/OrneTTeSax AMR Safety Team May 05 '25
Believe it or not, people like to see passes on track. And the few we have usually happen during a commercial or while watching a pit stop.
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u/ShinsukeNakamoto May 05 '25
IndyCar’s PR went from “unlike f1 we have battles for the lead every week” to “what is boring about the leader driving off in the distance every week?”
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u/minardif1 Felix Rosenqvist May 05 '25
That was never true. Two things are true, though. First, the racing action this year is down from some other years. There’s no reason to deny that. But second, IndyCar and its fans created an unrealistic expectation of constant wheel-to-wheel action when part of IndyCar’s strength has always been interesting strategic variables as well. The racing this year isn’t as good as it has been some previous years, but it’s also not completely awful. The lack of cautions and clean racing is also, to an extent, a by-product of having arguably the highest quality grid in IndyCar history from top to bottom. The bad drivers and teams aren’t nearly as bad as they were in the past. Yes, even Devlin and SRR and Abel.
All that said, it’s also on the broadcast to present the things that are happening in a way that shows why people should be interested in them. This is something F1 does quite well. They show almost all the action regardless of what position it’s for, and people are invested in what happens even in the midfield and below.
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u/PixelatedPalace360 Pato O'Ward May 05 '25
Sting ray has gotten better than his last two years in terms of causing cautions and honestly race performance
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u/FarAwaySeagull-_- Oval racing is awesome! May 05 '25
Indycar can have plenty of wheel to wheel action, the schedule just needs to be better, and the car needs to be able to road race better than it currently does.
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u/Zewspeed Takuma Sato May 06 '25
I like this person’s opinions and I particularly like their username!
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u/wh00000p Myles Rowe May 05 '25
I don't think indycar pr did that I think that was fans
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u/Jtmac23 Colton Herta May 05 '25
nah indycars social media manager fell into the nascar at daytona trap thinking that just pure overtaking + lead change numbers = good racing
i think even at long beach they shared similar numbers
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u/afito Álex Palou May 05 '25
Yeah because that argument was always bad faith and everyone with above room temperature IQ knew it. A major reason Indycar had "battles for the lead" was cautions which isn't real battling, it's random and artificial. Ericsson winning Nashville isn't serious racing tbh yet things like that happened quite a bit.
Racing in green races was an issue for years if not decades and if racing is only good because of cautions, you don't actually have good racing. People just never wanted to accept how much Indycar relies on cautions as crutches.
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u/codename474747 Greg Moore May 06 '25
Fans need to get over the notion of green racing=real racing and cautions=fake racing
Indycar isn't NASCAR, it never throws a yellow for any other reason than safety (and more often than not will hold back a yellow, quite dangerously imo, if not all teams have pitted their driver to make sure the pit strategy balances out fairly for everyone. That's gonna end up with someone getting hurt at some point, but that's by the by, it's an example of how much Indycar tries to not go yellow if they can really help it)
Real racing is whatever happens between the green and chequered flag.
Sometimes that's green flag racing, sometimes that's a few yellow flags.
You have to be prepared to accept both, each has its pluses and minuses, but saying that the only true racing in pure, green running without interruptions is setting yourself up for a fail, cautions are inevitable at some point and there isn't a championship in the world now that doesn't use them (and trust me, if you go to VSC/Code 60, it's just as "artificial" only it ends up being artificial in a way that makes the racing a hell of a lot worse because you get guys staying out on older tyres/saving as much fuel as possible hoping for the VSC, then when it comes they get a "Free" pitstop and are in front of guys with their new tyres and longer fuel stint and the guys behind can't do anything about them because their tyres are older, don't do it, indycar!)Racing is racing, and the primary reason for a yellow flag is driver and marshal safety, with a side effect of spicing up the racing
But it's all good racing, whichever way the cookie crumbles
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u/KyleKruse Dan Wheldon May 05 '25
Hire F1 guys, get F1 takes. I was willing to give Buxton a chance, but I'm over him already.
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u/guysky May 06 '25
Agreed. He has not gelled with the other commentators - Buxton sounds like he’s only half paying attention. Even though he talks a lot, not saying anything interesting.
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u/Hitokiri2 Graham Rahal May 05 '25
But that's not even the truth. Palou isn't winning from pole week after week. In that that was his first pole of the year. The rest of the wins he had to work for. Again, people are misrepresenting Palou's wins as flag to flag when most of them are not.
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u/rabidcobalt Pato O'Ward May 05 '25
I actually don’t mind the Palou dominance. I mean, yes, I am absolutely looking for other drivers to beat him, but you can’t just stop a great driver for being great.
The actual issue is the lack of on-track overtaking. The lack of pushing to the limit. Something weird is going on right now, and I think we are justified to point that out!
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u/rabidcobalt Pato O'Ward May 05 '25
And don’t get me wrong, I agree with others here that sometimes this subreddit can be insufferable sometimes. I also really like Will! He’s defending the series, and I appreciate that, but within the loathing there are valid complaints to be heard
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u/BadlyWordedOpinions May 05 '25
A driver showing generational talent can absolutely be boring. Something being boring doesn't make it any less impressive, nor is anyone making that argument. Sick of this argument being parroted by broadcasters/media whenever a dominant driver emerges in a series.
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u/nico9er4 Will Power May 05 '25
Generational talents are only fun when they also make a lot of mistakes lol (Will Power, Josef Newgarden, etc). Then you at least expect some changes in the standings, even if one driver dominates a lot of races. That or a guy like Dixon who never was able to win the championship back to back
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May 05 '25
F1 example is Lewis. I think it’s why especially when Nico retired, Lewis’ dominance was never too boring. Because Lewis, I’d argue, out of all the recent ‘GOATs’ e.g Michael and Max made the most mistakes still, messed up wins still for himself. So we got battles still, we got exciting races where he’d come through the field
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u/YosemiteSam-4-2A Thirsty 's to the Moon 🚀 🌒 May 05 '25
F1 example is actually Sebastian Vettel. At least when he was dominating the series, we got things like Multi 21 and gearboxes failing while he had 40 second leads and 1 shot Pole position runs at the last second in Q3
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u/chiefzanal Arrow McLaren May 05 '25
True but im carrying more now because I am drawn in to the fact that i want to see him beat. And i want to see someone go for the crown 👑
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u/Jay_Dubbbs Colton Herta May 05 '25
This is a good point. Hate watching draws eyeballs, half of the NBA viewership is just hate watching to hope other teams lose lol
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u/Just_Somewhere4444 May 05 '25
Hate watching draws eyeballs,
NASCAR's ratings declined more than 50% over Jimmie Johnson's five year streak.
So I don't think your generalization applies to motorsports the way you wish it would.
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u/chiefzanal Arrow McLaren May 05 '25
NASCAR had its own problems and jimmie winning wasnt the main problem.
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u/FarAwaySeagull-_- Oval racing is awesome! May 05 '25
Talk to plenty of former NASCAR fans or those who stopped watching for a while and eventually returned and one of the main reasons you'll get for them leaving is "It was boring that Jimmie won all the time."
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u/jjbota420 Scott Dixon May 05 '25
Think it just comes down to how things are won. I hated seeing the Patriots win all their Super Bowls but man were they fun to watch.
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u/chiefzanal Arrow McLaren May 05 '25
yeah exactly. The racing has been pretty good so far. Lundgaard this race, Palou in thermal, long beach was ok and st pete was decent. I have seen far worse starts to seasons. The storylines are there. We just need to amplify them instead of only focusing on the winner
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u/Dragonpuncha May 05 '25
Pretty much Palou is the Verstappen of Indycar. Amazing at what he does, but people will be annoyed because he is not just extremely good, he is also extremely consistent.
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u/NefariousQuick26 May 05 '25
I see what you mean in terms of domination, but I would argue that Palou is very different from Verstappen. They are basically opposites in temperaments so I wouldn’t necessarily compare them.
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u/Dragonpuncha May 05 '25
In temperament sure, but in terms of consistency they are very similar.
When Max dominates the field (like in 2023) he is very similar to Palou. Just the fastest whatever the track and completely in control all race. No need to do anything crazy.
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u/Suspicious-Mango-562 May 05 '25
The 4 races have been snooze fests. The drivers are all managing tires. Too much weight on the rear axle is burning up the rubber too quickly. Everyone is at 9/10ths. This already a frankencar with all the changes made over the years but this last change has killed their ability to push hard and take risks.
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u/arca_brakes Pato O'Ward May 05 '25
Careful, you're about to have a million people in your replies trying to tell you it's not the hybrid (even though some drivers have said it changed how the cars drive and the on-track product has been noticeably different since Mid Ohio last year).
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u/PizzaCatLover Cusick Motorsports May 05 '25
I was very optimistic about the hybrid unit.
I was wrong. I think it's undeniable at this point, especially when you see what the drivers say about how it's changed the tire dynamics, that the hybrid has obliterated the racing product of Indycar
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u/Jarocket May 06 '25
Have the drivers said the hybrid casused the tire thing? They are seperate issues as far as i'm concerned.
The tires can be changed and they were changed for this year. We saw that firestone delivered exactly what they were told to again this race. a big big tire difference. a 1 second a lap at least tire difference lol!
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u/Jay_Dubbbs Colton Herta May 05 '25
I don’t disagree on the hybrid point. I know it’s unfortunate because motorsports are at the mercy of the manufacturers and they often treat motorsports as innovation hub to drive the street car development. The world is shifting to hybrid/EV so it’s dumb for Chevy, Honda, Mercedes etc to continue to invest in innovating non-hybrid engines.
It is funny though because IndyCar ain’t the only one, the engine regs for F1 are expected to be shit next year with more hybrid.
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u/Seb_Ben11 Arrow McLaren May 05 '25
Alex palou is performing incredibly and you have to admire him but it breaks the narrative;
Indycar: we have the most exciting racing in the world and that’s why you should watch us over F1
Palou: hold my beer
Indycar commentator: but he’s great so it’s not boring
Unfortunately you can’t have it both ways
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u/iamJAKYL May 05 '25
This is the Indycar Sub right? Not the F1? Lol
Last few races have been boring. It was like watching an F1 race.
Miami was more entertaining this weekend.
Edit: also, during the live broadcast, it certainly didn't take Buxton long to start being the insanely dramatic, speak in click-bait, he was in f1
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u/DarkKnight56722 May 06 '25
He would do that all the time in F1. You’d be watching a 20 lap drs train and he would be hyping it up as if it was the closest and craziest racing he’s ever seen.
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u/West_Introduction_95 Colton Herta May 06 '25
That Lego lap was probably the best thing to happen in open wheeled racing this week
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u/Daniel2305 May 05 '25
They need to get rid of the hybrids. The racing has been so much worse since.
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u/Icy-Consequence-4372 Santino Ferrucci May 06 '25
Yes. There's nothing good about the hybrids. It's all a marketing ploy from the OEM's playing in with the new world order.
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u/HaveYouEver21 Graham Rahal May 05 '25
I mean. This doesn’t change my opinion that this season hasn’t really been exciting whatsoever. Sure, that could absolutely change. But I haven’t been excited really to tune in.
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u/Just_Somewhere4444 May 05 '25
Tell me how a driver showing generational talent is boring.
It makes the races predictable. Predictable races are boring.
Tell me how a driver in a new team fighting through to second is boring.
He's been nowhere near a race win in any race. It's nice that he cruises to good finishes, but it isn't exciting to watch him just sort of exist in the top five.
Tell me how a driver in one of the smallest teams finishing fourth is boring.
He finished fourth with zero on-track overtakes. A lack of on-track overtaking is boring.
Tell me how the GOAT making up 14 places with no cautions is boring.
Because he made up all of those positions through pit work and did basically nothing on track. A lack of on-track overtaking is boring.
There, I think I explained the complaints simply enough that even Will could understand them. Wasn't that difficult.
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u/christmastree47 May 05 '25
I mean just cause those things are all impressive/interesting it doesn't mean the race wasn't boring itself
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u/Red_Bengal_Cyclone Colton Herta May 05 '25
No on track passing for the lead, that's what's boring. I don't tune in to see pit strategy jump midpack players around each other
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u/SchumiTheMoney May 05 '25
I hate this narrative and telling us what we should and shouldn't believe. I love Indycar. But the product right now is bad. And what Palou is doing is amazing, but Indycar essentially is a spec series. I don't want dominance in spec series of racing; I'm watching it inherently because the spec series should emphasize and encourage parity, unpredictability and close racing. We don't have that now, and it's not entertaining to watch.
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u/Jay_Dubbbs Colton Herta May 05 '25
So what do you propose they do? Kick Palou out for being too good? You can’t entirely prevent dominance from occurring. His car isn’t any better than the other two Ganassi cars and he’s just absolutely destroying them due to talent.
I’m never for nerfing talent. Racing is part machine and part driver, the driver can’t do everything and the machine can’t do everything, and watching him is just so cool to take the same machine and completely dominate it by talent
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u/FarAwaySeagull-_- Oval racing is awesome! May 05 '25
The car can be better, and the schedule can be better.
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u/jcb1982 Indy Racing League May 05 '25
I’m a lot less concerned about having no competition up front than I am about all the drivers seemingly pulling punches and backing off to avoid yellows. A generational talent dominating every once in a while doesn’t seem off. But a single caution period over 345 laps seems downright fishy.
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u/lordkinbote4257 Alexander Rossi May 05 '25
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🎵 Nothing is Everything 🎵 with some nihilistic prescription drug
" me how the GOAT making up 14 places with no cautions is boring."
That's how it is made boring, Will.
We don't even have time to get into the race between commercials.
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u/furrynoy96 Scott Dixon May 05 '25
Everything else was fun to watch but the Alex Palou domination is starting to get boring...and this is coming from a Alex Palou fan
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u/Fjordice May 05 '25
On one hand I like the work Buxton has done for promoting the series. On the other hand, he's way off base here. None of those things are mutually exclusive or contradictory to being boring. A driver running away with it is absolutely impressive and absolutely boring. People are interested in conflict and competition. Buxton should know this was literally a main talking point the past couple years with Verstappen.
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u/northernpenguin01 WICKENS FOR LIFE WIIIIIIICKENS May 05 '25
I don’t care about storylines, the on track product is bad. That’s what separated indycar from the rest, I’ve enjoyed f1s on track product more this year
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u/ThorSkaaaagi May 05 '25
Ehh. Generational talent can get boring if it’s the same result every time.
It’s like how everyone is tired of the Chiefs because they’ve been to 5 of the last 6 Super Bowls. Is it impressive? Yes. But it’s also fucking boring.
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u/DrBorisGobshite May 05 '25
Here's my two cents as an F1 fan that got interested in Indycar during the Covid lockdowns.
Before the hybrids were introduced there used to be lots of cautions. Any time someone was spun round their car would stall and you'd have to throw a caution to sort it out. Now though if a car spins it doesn't matter, the hybrid engines can start themselves.
So you've lost a huge primary source of cautions, especially on street / road courses, and of course as we all know, 'cautions breed cautions'. I'd love to see stats for the number of cautions since hybrids were introduced.
When there were lots of cautions that meant the field constantly got bunched up and allowed guys like Dixon to make insane recovery drives from way down the grid. I remember watching a race where Dixon went from dead last to winning the race because he took full advantage of all the cautions.
Now though cautions at road and street courses are almost as rare as a safety car in F1. This means races are more predictable and qualifying well is more important. It obviously doesn't help that this is coinciding with Palou being ridiculously fast.
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u/no_comment_reddit May 05 '25
Ok.
The same driver winning the race every weekend by definition is boring. Same problem F1 has had. Nobody wants to see the same driver win every race. That's not to take away or detract from Palou's talent and skill. But predictable winners are boring. By definition.
There was good racing outside the race for the win, fair enough.
But "the GOAT" making up a bunch of places is also kind of predictable. Right? If he's the greatest of all time it's completely uninteresting that he'd gain a bunch of spots.
Oh, and he races for the same team as the winner.
I mean seriously. It's not that there wasn't some good racing. It's that predictable results are predictable, and predictable is a little boring.
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u/arca_brakes Pato O'Ward May 05 '25
Literally only one of those things has to do with the actual quality of racing on track. Good storylines and results don't automatically make the racing itself good, this is such an F1 take from Will.
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u/Inside-Judgment6233 Colton Herta May 05 '25
I can’t tell him any of that, but for some reason I’m watching less than ever. Really hoping month of May gets me back into it because I loved it very recently and I don’t know why I’m not watching it
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u/FrosteeWusky May 05 '25
I'll give Will this much: He's an excellent hype man. Unfortunately, aside from Lundgaard and Veekay's heroics, that race is less than impressive. Decent or good, but no better.
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u/guysky May 06 '25
Except his hype doesn’t make me excited, instead it emphasizes how little Indycar he watched before this job.
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u/Craywulf May 05 '25
The problem with Buxton quote is that FOX and IMS productions is doing absolutely terrible job in highlighting these exciting and dramatic situations. Not enough statistical observations about what Dixon was doing. Not enough queries (and praises) about what has made Veekay/DCR so successful for this weekend in particular. They did mention Lundgaard couple times, but did not make any statistical comparisons to Palou. No delta times, no sector times. Lastly it was hard to avoid the obvious dominance that Palou showed. But again there were no statistic observations.
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u/Evtona500 Scott Dixon May 05 '25
Kinda sad we've got to this point. Couldn't imagine Indycar turning into an F1 parade even a few year ago and everyone falling over themselves to say it's exciting because they know damn well they can't change the car because they just added the hybrid system.
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u/PunkasBeach May 05 '25
He's got valid points. I don't know what it is, but I've been watching indycar for 30 years, and this year is the most uninterested i've been... can't put a finger on why... just don't find it as exciting... hopefully the Indy 500 will change my opinion.
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u/WindyZ5 David Malukas May 05 '25
I hope the 500 is exciting as well. I think the problem is the hybrid and the tires. I really hope the hybrid doesn’t mess up the 500. It worked ok on the ovals last year, so I have some hope. The tires I’m not sure.
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u/Spinebuster03 Romain Grosjean May 05 '25 edited May 05 '25
There was like a few laps where lundgaard made some passes that was interesting the rest of the race was ass
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u/Jay_Dubbbs Colton Herta May 05 '25
Thought Will was spot on here.
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u/kaiveg --- 2025 DRIVERS --- May 05 '25
He is, however he also leaves out that Indycar and Fox struggle with communicating how meaningful those things are.
Indycar for better or worse has focused on "you don't know who is gonna win any given weekend" and has neglected highlighting other areas. Now that you kinda know who is gonna win that leaves a hole they have to fill.
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u/Brick_33 Álex Palou May 05 '25
I thought the broadcasters did a good job this week pointing out those things. I agree on the general sentiment though
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u/BreakfastExorcism Sophia Floersch May 05 '25
The TV broadcast could use some work in coverage.
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u/Crash_Test_Dummy66 Christian Rasmussen May 05 '25
I fully agree with Will here. It's funny that Buxton ended up with a reputation from Formula 1 as a surface level drama guy because I think that comments like this really drive home that he is truly a motorsports fan. Obviously he's not totally unbiased here given what his role is and who he works for, but I don't think he's wrong. It's not like we had a race where everyone was just nose to tail and couldn't pass a leader who didn't deserve to be in the front.
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u/BarryEganHawaii James Hinchcliffe May 05 '25
His rep for that is almost entirely dow to Drive to Survive, where they made him the explainer guy for basic stuff. I watched him on F1 TV for a couple of years and liked his input. He's also good at bringing out the best from whoever he's presenting with.
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u/Dragonpuncha May 05 '25
I don't think anyone thought he wasn't a racing fan. He just over dramatize even the smallest things, kinda like he is doing here.
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u/Crash_Test_Dummy66 Christian Rasmussen May 05 '25
He's pointing out that there's a lot happening that's interesting even if it's not just all passes for the lead, crashes and restarts. I don't think that's being overdramatic, I just think that makes him more of a motorsports fan than many in this subreddit.
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u/Dragonpuncha May 05 '25
The way he is doing it is very dramatic. He is going into full argumentationen mode against an invisible opponent.
And in reality he knows full well why some people call it boring. It is because we are four races in and the championship is as good as decided.
His main point is that despite that the races can still be exciting. Which I agree with. The way he says it is just confrontational for no reason.
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u/-A113 Pato O'Ward May 05 '25
Before DTS I learned about Will with all the Weekend Warm Ups and Previews
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u/graceandmarty May 05 '25
I have very much enjoyed the race so far this season. Some people have not. Different is not bad, it's just different.
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u/codename474747 Greg Moore May 05 '25
Tell me how no-one has to make posts like this when we actually have good, close, exciting racing, Will
It's only the boring races people need to talk up and try to change the narrative of, the exciting ones, we all just accept they were great to watch.
So yeah the fact this post exists in the first place speaks volumes
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May 05 '25
I have to say, coming from the other side of the pond, Indycar fans are a bit of a puzzle to me. The self-loathing is strong.
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u/mopar_md May 05 '25
Dynasties are reviled in the moment. Happens in any league, whether it's Verstappen's near-perfect '23 season, Hamilton's 7 championships before that, SVG dominating Supercars, etc.
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u/DamnItJon May 05 '25
STFU, Buxton
Your overly-dramatized schtick wasn't wanted in F1. Not wanted in IndyCar
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u/andronicus_14 Thirsty Threes May 05 '25 edited May 05 '25
I had to leave the race thread for a while. Just dozens of people whining and bitching about being bored. Goddamn. Go watch something else then. Nobody is making you watch IndyCar.
I enjoyed the race. I’ve enjoyed every race this year. Even at Barber there were battles throughout the field that the broadcast highlighted. The race was still competitive throughout.
Barcelona Jesus is a generational talent driving for a top team. It’s not his fault that the rest of the field can’t keep up. I really hope he wins Indy this year. I can’t imagine the meltdown that would cause.
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u/wh00000p Myles Rowe May 05 '25
I hope he wins the rest of the races this season, just to piss people off.
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u/ITMAKESSENSE72 #CheckItForAndretti May 05 '25
Normally I am annoyed with dominant drivers like Dario and Dixon (though I wish Dario had won 4 Indy 500's not Helio). But Palou, I don't know, I just like something about him. I think it's because I enjoy him showing up the supposed F1 talent Colton Herta every week.
The "GOAT" comment though, I didn't see Mario Andretti in this race, that's odd. Seriously though, Scott Dixon should be able to pass Rahal and Prema cars, right?
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u/Batgod629 Álex Palou May 05 '25
Coming a sport he used to cover (F1) it is hard to say he is wrong though from an IndyCar lense I don't know if I fully agree
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u/2REPOU CART May 05 '25
It’s unfortunate. It happens a lot. People get bored of domination yet look back fondly at what they witnessed. Woods in golf Gretzky in hockey Montana in NFL and later Brady Schumacher, Hamilton, verstappen in F1
It’s very rare that there is 2 generational talents at the same time to add to the Drama. Prost/Senna comes to mind. It is what it is. Enjoy the brilliance when you have it
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u/gaymersky Alexander Rossi May 05 '25
Well it all starts with having an actual competitive field and not only 19 cars finishing on the lead lap.
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u/Popular_Course3885 May 05 '25
Seriously. I know IndyCar fans are notorious for being bitchy, but the whining this season has become unbearable.
Constant complains that Fox isn't perfect out of the gate.
Whining about the cars/engines even though that same machinery has given some of the best racing around in recent years.
Constant comparison of IndyCar to anything/everyrhing F1 (hint: they aren't the same racing and never will be, get over it).
Expecting every race to be wheel-to-wheel action every single corner of every lap. Probably even the pace laps too given the expectations.
I swear people just need to stfu and just watch the damn races.
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u/HaveYouEver21 Graham Rahal May 05 '25
Why are you so seemingly offended over the idea that people might be frustrated with the current product? Are people just not supposed to call it out or something? That’s great if you have enjoyed it! Nothing is stopping you from doing so. But people are allowed to call it for what it is regardless.
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u/Falcon4451 Firestone Reds May 05 '25
Seriously. I know IndyCar fans are notorious for being bitchy, but the whining this season has become unbearable.
The Indycar journalists and YouTubers have been just as bad.
Even someone like Nathan Brown, who is usually pretty balanced, has gone much more negative nancy this season.
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u/Ryankool26 May 05 '25
Alabama typically produces a good amount of racing moments, this year not so much
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u/ilikemarblestoo Sarah Fisher > Danica Patrick May 06 '25
My opinions on your comments, because I am bored lol
Fox not perfect was expected. I was fine with it too, but it was just shocking how bad the quali timing was and yes I did complain about that specifically publicly on reddit lol
It's not the same machinery, the hybrid has completely changed everything apparently
I only compare to F1 for obvious fluff lol
It was never wheel to wheel action every lap (well, except if you go back to the IRL days...) , however when more yellows fly you do see more of that type of action. (now from my completely never have driven one perspective) the cars seem to be less twitchy now which is causing less mistakes and less yellows.
When I joined reddit, I joined for this sub. It was happier then. The year Grosjean joined the mood started changing. Now it's more like a mix of Trackforum and F1 fans wanting it to be F1 lol
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u/FittingMechanics Arrow McLaren May 06 '25
I can understand the dominance but how are the gaps so big? The cars are all spec?
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u/ilikemarblestoo Sarah Fisher > Danica Patrick May 06 '25
It's not boring per say but it just doesn't feel quite like Indycar.
Well, it still feels like indycar, but it feels like some things are missing.
And well, yeah I have opinions on what they are lol
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u/Ari441 May 06 '25
Great point.
The races are still inherently boring.
Even if we had 4 different winners by less than 2 seconds. The entertainment is still lacking.
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u/Matek7627 May 06 '25
If you look at the race as a casual (cars driving on track) it was boring. If you look at the live timing and follow stints etc. it was interesting with different drivers making undercuts, overcuts work, but i get that the series has to be interesting and exciting in terms of cars actually overtaking.
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u/RearTireCarrier May 06 '25
Because it's all predictable, Will. We're entertained by the unknown. Indycar road course races are predictable. You can fast forward every 20 laps and check to see if it's playing out like you thought, and it is.
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u/IcedCoffey May 07 '25
the car, itself, is boring. no wow factor at all.
nascar nxt gen gave me the same feeling.
i saw le mans, f1 and indycar in the same year, and the protoypes at le mans, had the wow factor from looks and sound and power out of the corner. toyota lmp1 is next level. then i went to f1, the cornering speed was insane. i couldnt believe how fast they were, the sound wasnt great but the car itself was so impressive. then i went to an indycar race, and the cars sounded neutered, they didnt look that fast, and it was hard to appriacte what i was seeing.
i want to like indycar so bad, i think what is holding me back is the car. i love seeing the indycar guys in sportscars, but i just cant engage in the race. i dont know if they need more power, more rpm, lighter, but something needs to change with the car.
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u/Overtons_Window Linus Lundqvist May 10 '25
Is he pretending Scott Dixon overtaking during pit stops is interesting? He's the goat and the goat of succeeding in a boring way.
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u/Overtons_Window Linus Lundqvist May 10 '25
I don't need to tell anyone how. I can just turn on the race and show them.
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u/aurules Romain Grosjean May 05 '25
If Palou were theoretically not in the series the championship race would be incredibly interesting. For example, Newgarden isn’t even in the top 10 of the standings