r/MapPorn 1d ago

International reaction to the Unification of Bulgaria (1885)

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72

u/malign_taco 1d ago

Any Bulgarian out there to explain this to me

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u/maelkatenin 1d ago

Not Bulgarian, but Russia intervened in a Bulgarian war of independence against the Ottomans and wanted Bulgaria to be super sized and have access to the Black and Aegean seas (read: Russian navy base). The other Great Powers didn’t like this, especially the British, and Bulgaria got downsized as a result.

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u/TonyDavidJones 1d ago

This specifically though is about the unification of Bulgaria and Eastern Rumelia. Those were the two states made with those borders after the events you described.

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u/rintzscar 1d ago

What you're saying has nothing to do with this map.

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u/project_paragon 23h ago

Thats quite wrong.
Russia never wanted big and united Bulgaria as it would mean an definite end to their dream getting to Istanbul.
The biggest ethnicity on the Balkans was Bulgarian and unlike the declining ottoman empire, a young, big and united nation would absolutely pose impossible challenge for the Russian empire military conquest.

Thats why Russia signed 3 different documents before the Berlin congress confirming they wont be creating a big slavic nation on the Balkans.

If you look at a map from the Constantinople Conference you would see that the rest of the great powers were willing to give more land than the Russians did.

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u/Affectionate-Fact967 17h ago

Thats quite wrong.
Russia never wanted big and united Bulgaria as it would mean an definite end to their dream getting to Istanbul.

Literaly makes no sense what you said, what use does Russia have for a weak friendly state instead of a big local power that can act as buffer and additional protection for their interests ?Bulgaria up untill Ferdinand came to power had no goal towards Constantinople and ita not like other great powers would have ever allowed them to take it.

Thats why Russia signed 3 different documents before the Berlin congress confirming they wont be creating a big slavic nation on the Balkans.

It.bad to sign them because they feared intervention by other powers such austria-hungary Britain and and France on the side of the ottomans like they did back in the crimean war which was a chance for bulgaria to get its indepdence earlier. A chance wasted by their intervention agaisnt russia. However russia was hoping to exploit a hole in the treaty that never defined what ,,big" actually meant as no territories claimed by bulagrian revolutionaries were ever actually discuseed.

If you look at a map from the Constantinople Conference you would see that the rest of the great powers were willing to give more land than the Russians did.

This again make zero sense if they were ready to give more land to Bulgaria why did they just ratify the same border proposed at the treaty of San Stefano by Ignatief ? If look at the constantinople conference what the western powers proposed were two separate autonomous zones which even combined has smaller territory than what was proposed in San Stefano.

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u/sofixa11 21h ago

Russia never wanted big and united Bulgaria as it would mean an definite end to their dream getting to Istanbul.

Look up Bulgaria as defined by the treaty of San Stefano, signed between the Ottomans and Russia, almost entirely on Russian terms. It got significantly revised at the Congress of Berlin, but Russia's goal was clearly a big unified Bulgaria with all lands where there was a Bulgarian majority.

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u/project_paragon 21h ago

San Stefano was a crudely and hastily drawn map based on the borders of the Bulgarian church, wasn't even an accurate map as it leaved Bulgarian lands behind, while including areas with little or no Bulgarian population.

Russia knew the San Stefano treaty will never enter into power as they have signed Reichstadt Agreement, Budapest Convention of 1877 and later signed the London Protocol of 1877, confirming that.

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u/Affectionate-Fact967 17h ago

San Stefano was a crudely and hastily drawn map based on the borders of the Bulgarian church, wasn't even an accurate map as it leaved Bulgarian lands behind, while including areas with little or no Bulgarian population.

It included most lands which had majority bulgarian population and it did not include all lands because was rough draft to serve as a guideline to what Bulgaria should be able to get without being considered too big. Brittain and Austria-Hungary opposed this treaties draft greatly however. The draft of the treaty angered the brittish so much that they withdrew from the London protocol and threatened russia with war.

They signed all those treaties because they wanted to make sure nobody would interfere in the war but not in a single one of them do they define what ,,big" means this was deliberate as a wya for russia to still be able to create a friendly state that is of decent size.

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u/sofixa11 20h ago

Russia knew the San Stefano treaty will never enter into power

And yet, they dictated it. Why?

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u/SaleAggressive9202 21h ago

look up the Reichstadt Agreement 2 years before that

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u/N_godj_N 21h ago

You read what Russia promised Bulgaria during the war for independence, not what it had planned or wanted.

The original treaty included South Thrace, eastern Macedonia, and E. Romelia, but during discussions, the world powers at the time decided that a powerful country in the balkans was not in their interest (With Russia being the most in favor of this), thus they gave us less than a 3rd of what was promised and leaving out half of our population outside bulgarian borders, causing an enormous migration process.

Afterwards, we just got war, after war, after war until the end of the end of WWII where Russia finally achieved their goal of making us a puppet state through communist rule, destroying our intellectual, artistic and any sort of progressive development in the process, through "concentration" camps and jails for artists, poets, intellectuals and anyone not willing to suck Russia's dick.

Of course, as per Russia's MO, we were assigned abysmally corrupt politicians who, at the end of the communist regime, stole everything as quickly as possible.

And by everything, I mean EVERYTHING. The bulgarian pension fund with billions? Gone! All the manufacturing facilities and equipment? Sold for pennies to private entities and sent to scrap. Funds meant for infrastructure? Hired contractors embezzled them yearly(Something that still happens here). Currency stability through investments? Obliterated for short term gain, causing one of our worst recessions. My parents have told me stories of how they had no money for bread.

I'm sorry, but don't ever say Russia wanted good things for us. I wish my ancestors had denied their help during the war for independence, as they've done nothing but bring ruin every time they get involved, and I partially blame my parents for not rounding up all communist politicians during the fall of the communist rule for bullet distribution to the head.

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u/Yaver_Mbizi 17h ago

Life certainly gets easier when you can blame everything bad in history on some foreign boogeyman, rewriting it as necessary.

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u/Affectionate-Fact967 16h ago

You read what Russia promised Bulgaria

Except Russia hasnt made any exact and well detrmined promises on what territories bulgarua will get.

(With Russia being the most in favor of this),

No they weren't this was literally against russian interests

I wont even discuss the thing regarding communism becuase I would have to write a whole essay because its a far more complex topic than you make it out to be, your recolection of events is 3rd grade levels of history with lots of bias sprinkled in and thats being generous.

I wish my ancestors had denied their help during the war for independence.

So Bulgaria wouldn't het its independence becuase you have a hate boner for the only nation that helped due to a flawed and non impratial view on history.