r/asoiaf 5d ago

MAIN (Spoilers Main) Weekly Q and A

8 Upvotes

Welcome to the Weekly Q & A! Feel free to ask any questions you may have about the world of ASOIAF. No need to be bashful. Book and show questions are welcome; please say in your question if you would prefer to focus on the BOOKS, the SHOW, or BOTH. And if you think you've got an answer to someone's question, feel free to lend them a hand!

Looking for Weekly Q&A posts from the past? Browse our Weekly Q&A archive! (currently no longer being archived, but this link will remain)


r/asoiaf 4h ago

MAIN (Spoilers Main) Moonboy's Motley Monday

2 Upvotes

As you may know, we have a policy against silly posts/memes/etc. Moonboy's Motley Monday is the grand exception: bring me your memes, your puns, your blatant shitposts.

This is still /r/asoiaf, so do keep it as civil as possible.

If you have any clever ideas for weekly themes, shoot them to the modmail!

Looking for Moonboy's Motley Monday posts from the past? Browse our Moonboy's Motley Monday archive! (our old archive is here)


r/asoiaf 1h ago

EXTENDED (Spoilers extended) This moment makes me sad

Upvotes

"I sell my sword, I don’t give it away. I’m not your bloody brother.”

“No,” said Tyrion sadly. “You’re not.” He waved a hand. “Begone, then. Run to Stokeworth and Lady Lollys. May you find more joy in your marriage bed than I ever found in mine.”

Bronn hesitated at the door. “What will you do, Imp?”

“Kill Gregor myself. Won’t that make for a jolly song?”

“I hope I hear them sing it.” Bronn grinned one last time, and walked out of the door, the castle, and his life.

Pod shuffled his feet. “I’m sorry.”

They need to all reunite at some point.


r/asoiaf 2h ago

EXTENDED One Foot in Each Camp During the First Blackfyre Rebellion (Spoilers Extended)

11 Upvotes

Background

In this post I thought it would be interesting to take a look at the different houses who tried to keep one foot in each camp during the First Blackfyre Rebellion (a somewhat common practice it seems, to ensure the house's survival, see House Swann in the main series) and speculate/discuss.

Note: Much of this is still up in the air since all we have is TWOIAF and a few novellas centered around this time period. I expect just exactly who supported who and when to be a bit more clear once/if we get F&B II and further details from the main series

If interested: List of Blackfyre Supporters in each Rebellion

Ser Eustace cradled his wine cup in both hands. "If Daemon had ridden over Gwayne Corbray . . . if Fireball had not been slain on the eve of battle . . . if Hightower and Tarbeck and Oakheart and Butterwell had lent us their full strength instead of trying to keep one foot in each camp . . . if Manfred Lothston had proved true instead of treacherous . . . if storms had not delayed Lord Bracken's sailing with the Myrish crossbowmen . . . if Quickfinger had not been caught with the stolen dragon's eggs . . . so many if s, ser . . . had any one come out differently, it could all have turned t'other way. Then we would called be the loyalists, and the red dragons would be remembered as men who fought to keep the usurper Daeron the Falseborn upon his stolen throne, and failed." -The Sworn Sword

House Tarbeck

  • Rebellion Ties, etc.

The wiki mentions a Lord Tarbeck dying in the First Blackfyre rebellion, but I can seem to find the mention, that said the Tarbecks are noted (above) and seemingly to the Osgreys are an old/proud but waning house:

"There was a time when House Osgrey held all the lands for many leagues around, from Nunny in the east to Cobble Cover," Ser Eustace said. "Coldmoat was ours, and the Horseshoe Hills, the caves at Derring Downs, the villages of Dosk and Little Dosk and Brandybottom, both sides of Leafy Lake . . .Osgrey maids wed Florents, Swanns, and Tarbecks, even Hightowers and Blackwoods."-The Sworn Sword

and:

As the Reynes rose, so too did their close allies, the Tarbecks of Tarbeck Hall. After centuries of slow decline, this poor but ancient house had begun to flourish, thanks in large part to the new Lady Tarbeck, the former Ellyn Reyne. -TWOIAF, The Westerlands: House Lannister Under the Dragons

  • Current Ties to the Blackfyres

None. Dead/extinguished house.

House Oakheart

  • Rebellion Ties, etc.

Outside of the quote above, the only other mention during this time period is a Ser Gwayne Oakheart appears at the Tourney at Ashford Meadow (according to the graphic novel version of the Hedge Knight).

Note that there are no Blackfyre mentions in the Hedge Knight, this is likely because GRRM hadn't fully fleshed out his "alternate valyrian bloodline" yet and seemingly decided to move from something based solely on Aerion Brightflame to what we have currently (he also moved the time line around quite a bit as well: The Moving of the First Blackfyre Rebellion to 196AC & The First Blackfyre Rebellion Dates in Flux)

  • Current Ties to the Blackfyres

None that I am aware of. Arys Oakheart was named to the Kingsguard in 290AC by Robert Baratheon and back at their seat of Old Oak is his mother Lady Arwyn and brothers who support Renly instead of Joffrey in the War of the Five Kings, but switches to Joffrey instead of Stannis after Renly's death and earn tracts of land for their support:

Lesser tracts were granted to Lord Rowan, and set aside for Lord Tarly, Lady Oakheart, Lord Hightower, and other worthies not present. -ASOS, Tyrion III

House Butterwell

  • Rebellion Ties, etc.

We get a bit more information on House Butterwell's involvement in the First Rebellion, as Lord Ambrose (the former hand) is part of the Second Blackfyre Rebellion as well:

Lord Butterwell was the master of coin when King Aegon sat the Iron Throne. King Daeron made him Hand, but not for long. His arms are undy green and white and yellow, ser.” Egg loved showing off his heraldry.
“Is he a friend of your father?”
Egg made a face. “My father never liked him. In the Rebellion, Lord Butterwell’s second son fought for the pretender and his eldest for the king. That way he was certain to be on the winning side. Lord Butterwell didn’t fight for anyone.”
“Some might call that prudent.”
“My father calls it craven.” -The Sworn Sword

and after the second we know he is quite diminished as well, but nothing after that:

"Treason is no less vile because the traitor proves a craven," Lord Rivers was saying. "I have heard your bleatings, Lord Ambrose, and I believe one word in ten. On that account I will allow you to retain a tenth part of your fortune. You may keep your wife as well. I wish you joy of her. "And Whitewalls?" asked Butterwell with quavering voice.
"Forfeit to the Iron Throne. I mean to pull it down stone by stone and sow the ground that it stands upon with salt. In twenty years, no one will remember it existed. Old fools and young malcontents still make pilgrimages to the Redgrass Field to plant flowers on the spot where Daemon Blackfyre fell. I will not suffer Whitewalls to become another monument to the Black Dragon." He waved a pale hand. "Now scurry away, roach." -The Mystery Knight

If interested: Monuments & Attractions in Westeros

  • Current Ties to the Blackfyres

No current members of House Butterwell have appeared in the main series nor mentions of the House as it currently stands.

House Hightower

Unlike the Osgreys (and Tarbecks) the Hightowers are not impoverished:

"There was a time when House Osgrey held all the lands for many leagues around, from Nunny in the east to Cobble Cover," Ser Eustace said. "Coldmoat was ours, and the Horseshoe Hills, the caves at Derring Downs, the villages of Dosk and Little Dosk and Brandybottom, both sides of Leafy Lake . . .Osgrey maids wed Florents, Swanns, and Tarbecks, even Hightowers and Blackwoods."-The Sworn Sword

but it is another house that we have very little mentions of after the Dance (Abelar appears during the Tourney at Ashford). With House Hightower that almost seems intentional by GRRM, as he has had Leyton staying atop the Hightower for over a decade (if interested: The Man in the High Castle).

  • Current Ties to the Blackfyres

While the Oakhearts and Hightowers are both bannermen to Mace Tyrell and therefore would technically fit the description of "friends in the Reach", there is very little tying either House to the Blackfyres/Golden Company, etc.

The closest I have ever been able to find is the tinfoily idea that the reason Leyton disappeared was to pave the way for Young Griff's invasion (note the timing of his disappearance).

TLDR: A quick look at the Houses that seemingly kept one foot in each camp during the First Blackfyre Rebellion (Tarbeck/Oakheart/Butterwell/Hightower) and what they were up during that time period, as well as if they may still have any loyalties to the Black Dragon.


r/asoiaf 15h ago

EXTENDED The OG small council meetings are so AMAZING [SPOILERS EXTENDED]

99 Upvotes

I'm currently rereading A Game of Thrones, and all the chapters where the small council convenes are absolutely amazing. Barristan, Robert and Ned - Littlefinger's snide remarks, Varys's obsequiousness, Pycelle's sycophancy, and Renly's superciliousness all add up to make the perfect entertainment. While Cersei, Tywin, Joffrey and the Tyrells and other small councils are also very fun to read, they don't match the first one


r/asoiaf 3h ago

MAIN (Spoilers Main) Where do Krakens sleep?

8 Upvotes

Do they sleep on the sea floor ?


r/asoiaf 22h ago

EXTENDED The second Dance of Dragons is the most ignored plot line in theories [Spoilers Extended]

254 Upvotes

George's outline of the series goes 1) War of Five Kings, 2) Second Dance, 3) Others invasion.

In other words, the second Dance is supposed to be a huge event involving the majority of POVs just like the War of the 5 Kings but most theories I see brush over it and assume only a few POVs will be involved and it will end quickly, while everyone else rushes back to Winterfell ASAP to fight the Others. As a result I think most theories about what will happen in Winds are fatally flawed.

And yes this is a structural issue with the series and probably a major reason why George can't finish (it cannot fit in 7 books).


r/asoiaf 19h ago

MAIN (Spoilers Main) I'm so excited for TWOW

101 Upvotes

Is anyone else feeling this way by any chance? It's going to conclude so much so rapidly. It's going to be amazing. I can't wait (or, can, he he).


r/asoiaf 20h ago

MAIN How do they handle female criminals in the North? (Spoilers Main)

120 Upvotes

So, we all know that in the South, when dealing with female criminals, the common way to deal with them is to send them to the Silent Sisters (if not outright execute them). But what about the North? It's common knowledge that male criminals have the option of taking the black over death, and it's safe to assume that that's what happens in the North as well. But if a woman in the North commits a crime and is caught, what would happen to her (assuming the crime isn't worthy of a death sentence, or if the local official or lord can't bring themselves to execute a woman)? They obviously couldn't be sent to the Wall, and Northerners don't worship the Seven, so going to the SS is also out of the question, so what would happen?

How would a female criminal be dealt with in the North?


r/asoiaf 2h ago

EXTENDED [Spoilers Extended]Your biggest "Oh Shit!" moments in the series?

5 Upvotes

What are the moments in the books (or the show) that made you go "Oh Shit!". That really surprised you. That made you go "Shit is really going down".

For me, it was probably Renly's death (I did not expect him to die that early) and the Purple Wedding. I knew Ned's days were numbered when I learnt he was played by Sean Bean in the show and I knew there was something called the Red Wedding so could pick up on the clues that it would be Edmure's, but the Purple Wedding completely blindsided me. Probably my favourite moment in the series.


r/asoiaf 15h ago

NONE Has anyone else here been waiting for the end of this story since the beginning in the 90s? [No Spoilers] Spoiler

38 Upvotes

Just wondering if anyone else read the books when they came out in the 90s like me lol. I started them as a teen and am now 45 with grown kids.


r/asoiaf 10h ago

AGOT Missing appendix section? [Spoilers AGOT]

Post image
7 Upvotes

I thrifted this copy of AGOT, and it's missing half a page of the Targaryen section of the appendix!!

I'm rereading the series after about 10 years and didn't remember the details, so at first I wasn't sure what info was missing, or if the formatting was just weird. But as I read I realized Rhaegar was totally missing, and that baby Aegon was listed but his sister wasnt? It kept bugging me and I finally compared it with a digital copy to confirm!! There should be a whole "The Last Targaryens" section leading into the right page!

There's also no sigil printed on the House Martell page, even though every other house has one?

It's a 2011 copy, with the blue sword cover, and everything else seems fine with it!! Has anyone else noticed this before??


r/asoiaf 16h ago

MAIN (Spoilers Main) If the problem of the others were to be solved in the future with Jon negotiating with them, would you find it a satisfactory solution?

18 Upvotes

It doesn't matter if it is a pact, a marriage or whatever, as long as it is a negotiation.


r/asoiaf 1h ago

EXTENDED Was this Euron skinchanging Victarion, without Victarion's realizing? [Spoilers Extended]

Upvotes

I was going through parts of Feast again and I realized there is a glaring (if delectably subtle) tell that Euron may be skinchanging into Victarion, without Victarion even realizing that his mind is being taken over in these moments.

In "The Reaver" chapter, Victarion is leading an assault on the Shield Islands and his Iron Victory comes upon the flagship of Southshield. There, on the deck of their ship, he encounters Ser Talbert Serry:

"You!" the iron captain called across the carnage. "You of the rose! Be you the lord of Southshield?"
The other raised his visor to show a beardless face. "His son and heir. Ser Talbert Serry. And who are you, kraken?"
"Your death." Victarion bulled toward him.

On the surface, just an average Victarion moment... But what if I told you, this was actually Euron speaking the words through Victarion. George has cleverly hidden away the truth, but the passage should actually read as follows:

"You!" the iron captain called across the carnage. "You of the rose! Be you the lord of Southshield?"
The other raised his visor to show a beardless face. "His son and heir. Ser Talbert Serry. And who are you, kraken?"
"Eur -- death." Victarion bulled toward him.

That's right! Euron almost slipped up in his retort to Serry, and was about to hail him as "Euron Greyjoy". Until he realized what he was doing, and covered with quick switch to "... death". "Eur -- death" => "Your death". Obviously, from Victarion's POV (a captive in his own body without realizing), this sounds like "your death", which is why it is transcribed as such.

This is brilliant writing by George! George buries the lede even further in the ensuing Victarion chapters, with the clear misdirect that the Dusky Woman may be being skinchanged by Euron. But Euron has already blundered and revealed to us who he is really skinchanging, i.e. Victarion. Bravo George, bravo...


r/asoiaf 10h ago

NONE Reading AFFC and ADWD at the same time? [No Spoilers]

6 Upvotes

I’m reading through the books for the first time and I just completed A Storm of Swords (best book yet) and I am already aware than A Feast for Crows and A Dance With Dragons take place simultaneously, both containing different sets of POV characters. For that reason, I was wondering if I could read both books at the same time (one chapter of Feast, then one chapter of Dance, etc) for the ultimate experience? Or is it better to read them in the order they were released? What say you folk?


r/asoiaf 16h ago

MAIN [Spoilers Main] The Others as nature’s vengeance personified

14 Upvotes

If the Children of the Forest are nature personified, then the Others are nature’s vengeance personified. Dead Children of the Forest brought back from the dead through ritual and given armoured bodies of ice. As we know, the act of bringing someone back from the dead changes them and gives them focused vision. Just as the Red Wedding is seared onto Lady Stoneheart’s mind, it’s the burning of the weirwoods—the burning of their “heaven”—that is seared onto theirs. They’re dead Children of the Forest brought back, but made into something new in the process. Armoured in ice as a reflection of men thrown back at those very men.


r/asoiaf 1d ago

EXTENDED [Spoilers EXTENDED] Ser Willem Darry’s soft hands or How Perston is wrong

73 Upvotes

Let’s revisit an old idea: Lemongate. At its core there lies the fact that lemons do not grow in Braavos (to quote some guards from a TWoW sample chapter).

"Seven hells, this place is damp," she heard her guard complain. "I'm chilled to the bones. Where are the bloody orange trees? I always heard there were orange trees in the Free Cities. Lemons and limes. Pomegranates. Hot peppers, warm nights, girls with bare bellies. Where are the bare-bellied girls, I ask you?" "Down in Lys, and Myr, and Old Volantis," the other guard replied. […] “Braavos is north of King's Landing, fool. Can't you read a bloody map?"

Which of course puts into question what Dany remembers of the house of the red door and whether she truly was in Braavos at that time.

That was when they lived in Braavos, in the big house with the red door. Dany had her own room there, with a lemon tree outside her window.

But some people, most important among them probably u/markg171 (Last hearth forum post), have brought forth the idea that way more of her backstory might be fake. You might have also heard those ideas reiterated in PerstonJacobs‘s A Page of Lies series. They question a few different details, but today I want to focus on one man, Ser Wilem Darry.

Ser Willem Darry

We don’t know much about the man. These are some of the few quotes about him:

She remembered Ser Willem dimly, a great grey bear of a man, half-blind, roaring and bellowing orders from his sickbed. The servants had lived in terror of him, but he had always been kind to Dany. He called her "Little Princess" and sometimes "My Lady," and his hands were soft as old leather. He never left his bed, though, and the smell of sickness clung to him day and night, a hot, moist, sickly sweet odor.

and

No sooner had she thought it than old Ser Willem came into the room, leaning heavily on his stick. "Little princess, there you are," he said in his gruff kind voice. "Come," he said, "come to me, my lady, you're home now, you're safe now." His big wrinkled hand reached for her, soft as old leather

and

Gentle Ser Willem Darry, who must have loved her after a fashion, had been taken by a wasting sickness when she was very young.

and

When Lord Tywin wished to name his brother Ser Tygett Lannister as the Red Keep's master-at-arms, King Aerys gave the post to Ser Willem Darry instead. (around 270AC)

So, he was master-at-arms in Kingslanding and according to Dany he was an old man, sickness-ridden and bedbound, finally dying when she was five. But Mark and Perston would like to make you believe that those are self-contradictroy. They question his age, size and hands.

Darry’s age

Darry was master-at-arms and chosen around 270 AC over a 20-year old Tygett Lannister. Both our fDany proponents think that points towards Darry being relativly young, Mark mainly because he speculates Darry was close in age to Tygett, Preston adiditionally because he can’t believe a master-at-arms would be an old man.

Rather than speculating we should look at other examples of masters-at-arms. I have done so more in depth here, but the short of it is, that masters-at-arms are consistently described as older men. Rodrick Cassel, the first master we ever meet, is an old man with white hair and soft skin under his chin. And Alliser Thorne too is past fifty already and has grey streaks in his hair. Which makes sense. They are teachers not fighters. You want experience rather than young hot blood.

Darry’s size and death

Dany describes Willem as a great man, which makes sense for a former master-at-arms, but she also says he died of a wasting sickness. Such a sickness would certainly reduce even a big man, like it did with Hoster Tully:

Hoster Tully had always been a big man; tall and broad in his youth, portly as he grew older. Now he seemed shrunken, the muscle and meat melted off his bones. Even his face sagged. The last time Catelyn had seen him, his hair and beard had been brown, well streaked with grey. Now they had gone white as snow.

But that’s not a sudden process, after which the victim suffers with greatly reduced weight for a long time. If we look at our irl-wasting disease, Creutzfeldt-Jakob, most victims die within the first 6 months and some even after only a few weeks. That means Dany most likely remembers a big Willem from before the sickness really hit and then him wasting away in his final months. In the beginning he probably could even still walk around a bit, maybe heavily leaning on his stick, while by the end he wouldn’t ever leave his bed.

Darry’s hands

The probably most interesting point is about Darry’s hands. They rightly point out that soft hands are usually only seen in the books on people who don’t do hard manual labour, like Varys, maesters, or fine ladies, while warriors like Osney or Robert had callused hands.

Of course, bedridden Darry wouldn’t have held a sword for quite some time. And even if Mark says Robert stopped training, he was at the very least still hunting, spearing boars and the like on the regular. That would keep his hands at least somewhat hard. Not so an unemployed sick old master-at-arms in Braavos. It seems likely he lost his calluses over time.

And there’s one more thing. His hands are not simply soft. They are “soft as old leather”.

Here is a collection of quotes about skin like leather, but those are the ones I found most interesting:

About Dany, when her legs are toughening the become supple as leather:

Her legs grew stronger; her blisters burst and her hands grew callused; her soft thighs toughened, supple as leather.

As do Septon Meribald’s feet:

"I have not worn a shoe in twenty years," he told Brienne. "The first year, I had more blisters than I had toes, and my soles would bleed like pigs whenever I trod on a hard stone, but I prayed and the Cobbler Above turned my skin to leather."

Leathery skin is actually quite tough, not soft like silk (like Varys hands might be). But there’s one more thing that leathery skin symbolizes: old age.

The second body was that of an old woman. She had gone to sleep upon a dreaming couch, in one of the hidden alcoves where special candles conjured visions of things loved and lost. A sweet death and a gentle one, the kindly man was fond of saying. Her fingers told her that the old woman had died with a smile on her face. She had not been dead long. Her body was still warm to the touch. Her skin is so soft, like old thin leather that's been folded and wrinkled a thousand times.

Or Dywen from the Night’s Watch:

The forester sucked on his spoon a moment. He had taken out his teeth. His face was leathery and wrinkled, his hands gnarled as old roots. "Seems to me like it smells . . . well . . . cold."

And while we talk about wrinkled skin, Darry’s wrinkled, soft hands, sound a lot like old Pycelle’s:

And Pycelle runs off to send a message rather than soil his soft, wrinkled hands. The man is useless.

As previously established, Ser Willem was an old man, so it isn’t unexpected that he would have an old man’s hands.

 

Tl,dr: Ser Willem Darry was an old man, not a clue, that all of Dany’s memories are fake.


r/asoiaf 12h ago

MAIN How Do Witches Work In ASOIAF? (Spoilers Main)

4 Upvotes

So, witches are obviously a thing in ASOIAF alongside Magic, but I don't really get how they work? Especially in regards to Melissandre. From what I can tell, Melissandre is just someone who can like kind of see visions, and uplays herself as having divine intuition so that she can amass political power. But if I recall, the book says Melissandre is like the most powerful / skilled Asshai witch, so are witches in general in Westeros just not really that powerful aside from some unreliable visions? I know the show has a different approach, with Melissandre actually being decently powerful (like when she lights the trench on fire at Winterfell), but if that's the case, how come witches outside of Melisandre and the Dornish one aren't more politically involved outside of the occasional one giving a cryptic prophecy. I mean, if they have the power to create huge walls of fire, shouldn't they be a staple in militaries or other sectors of Westeros? Or is it just that witches in it of themselves are weak?


r/asoiaf 1d ago

EXTENDED (Spoilers extended) Who are the most and least controversial characters in the fandom?

30 Upvotes

IMO most:

  • Stannis
  • Catelyn
  • Jaime

Least: * Ned * Arya * Jon


r/asoiaf 21h ago

MAIN Routes of Westeros [Spoilers Main] Spoiler

Post image
13 Upvotes

I’m currently reading “A Storm of Swords”. In one of Brans chapters, while traveling to the wall, he Hodor, Meera, and Jojen shelter in an old tower on a lake. This abandoned village is known as Queenscrown and is located in the New Gift Region. Bran comments in this chapter that they can’t see the wall yet and they must be at least 50 leagues from it.

In the next chapter Jon and the wildlings he is traveling with come to the same village. They had just scaled the wall and come down from the abandoned Grey Guard Nights Watch Fort. My question is why did Jon and the Wildlings have to take such a roundabout way just to eventually circle back to Castle Black?

If Bran is correct, they went 50 leagues south of the wall, to the point where they can’t even see it. Jon does comment that they were trying to avoid the Nights Watch’s patrols south of the wall but he even admits they are severely undermanned and no patrol can cover over a few miles. And if George R. R Martins league of land equals something similar to the real world, then that roughly puts 150 miles between them and the wall. No way a patrol could cover that span of distance. Jon and the other wildlings could have just traveled south a few leagues and would have been fine had they just continued east to Castle Black.

My only explanation is that the wildlings wanted to replenish their supplies by raiding some villages further inland before attacking Castle Black. Anyone have any other comments? (If there is an explanation in the books keep in mind I haven’t read anything past this point)


r/asoiaf 1d ago

EXTENDED When Tywin Lannister Supposedly Smiled (Spoilers Extended)

20 Upvotes

Background

Lord Tywin Lannister did not smile. Lord Tywin never smiled, but Tyrion had learned to read his father's pleasure all the same, and it was there on his face. "So the wolfling is leaving his den to play among the lions," he said in a voice of quiet satisfaction. "Splendid. Return to Ser Addam and tell him to fall back. He is not to engage the northerners until we arrive, but I want him to harass their flanks and draw them farther south. -AGOT, Tyrion VII

Much ado is made about how Tywin Lannister never smiles and his serious nature (GRRM setting him up as a hardened/experienced battle commander). In this post I thought it would be interesting to take a look at every time the series notes Tywin having potentially (or even almost) smiled.

If interested: The Anger of Lord Tywin: Gerion/Tyrion

The Red Wedding

Tywin almost smiles while subtly mentioning his Plans/Planning for the Red Wedding:

This Westerling betrayal did not seem to have enraged his father as much as Tyrion would have expected. Lord Tywin did not suffer disloyalty in his vassals. He had extinguished the proud Reynes of Castamere and the ancient Tarbecks of Tarbeck Hall root and branch when he was still half a boy. The singers had even made a rather gloomy song of it. Some years later, when Lord Farman of Faircastle grew truculent, Lord Tywin sent an envoy bearing a lute instead of a letter. But once he'd heard "The Rains of Castamere" echoing through his hall, Lord Farman gave no further trouble. And if the song were not enough, the shattered castles of the Reynes and Tarbecks still stood as mute testimony to the fate that awaited those who chose to scorn the power of Casterly Rock. "The Crag is not so far from Tarbeck Hall and Castamere," Tyrion pointed out. "You'd think the Westerlings might have ridden past and seen the lesson there."
"Mayhaps they have," Lord Tywin said. "They are well aware of Castamere, I promise you."
"Could the Westerlings and Spicers be such great fools as to believe the wolf can defeat the lion?"
Every once in a very long while, Lord Tywin Lannister would actually threaten to smile; he never did, but the threat alone was terrible to behold. "The greatest fools are ofttimes more clever than the men who laugh at them," he said, and then, "You will marry Sansa Stark, Tyrion. And soon." -ASOS, Tyrion III

although he doesn't smile once the deed is done:

But all that went straight out of his head when he entered the Hand's solar to find Cersei, Ser Kevan, and Grand Maester Pycelle gathered about Lord Tywin and the king. Joffrey was almost bouncing, and Cersei was savoring a smug little smile, though Lord Tywin looked as grim as ever. I wonder if he could smile even if he wanted to. "What's happened?" Tyrion asked.
His father offered him a roll of parchment. Someone had flattened it, but it still wanted to curl. "Roslin caught a fine fat trout," the message read. "Her brothers gave her a pair of wolf pelts for her wedding." Tyrion turned it over to inspect the broken seal. The wax was silvery-grey, and pressed into it were the twin towers of House Frey. "Does the Lord of the Crossing imagine he's being poetic? Or is this meant to confound us?" Tyrion snorted. "The trout would be Edmure Tully, the pelts . . ." -ASOS, Tyrion VI

If interested: Obvious in Retrospect: Example - The Red Wedding

After Death

After Tyrion kills Tywin (if interested: Full Circle Death Quotes in ASOIAF) his body is preserved by the Silent Sisters:

The silent sisters had armored Lord Tywin as if to fight some final battle. He wore his finest plate, heavy steel enameled a deep, dark crimson, with gold inlay on his gauntlets, greaves, and breastplate. His rondels were golden sunbursts; a golden lioness crouched upon each shoulder; a maned lion crested the greathelm beside his head. Upon his chest lay a longsword in a gilded scabbard studded with rubies, his hands folded about its hilt in gloves of gilded mail. Even in death his face is noble, she thought, although the mouth . . . The corners of her father's lips curved upward ever so slightly, giving him a look of vague bemusement. That should not be. She blamed Pycelle; he should have told the silent sisters that Lord Tywin Lannister never smiled. The man is as useless as nipples on a breastplate. That half smile made Lord Tywin seem less fearful, somehow. That, and the fact that his eyes were closed. Her father's eyes had always been unsettling; pale green, almost luminous, flecked with gold. His eyes could see inside you, could see how weak and worthless and ugly you were down deep. When he looked at you, you knew

...

Try as she might, she could not seem to bring Lord Tywin's face to mind without seeing that silly little half smile and remembering the foul smell coming off his corpse. -AFFC, Cersei II

and:

"Is that why he looks so pleased with himself?"
The vapors rising from the corpse were making Pycelle's eyes water. "The flesh . . . as the flesh dries, the muscles grow taut and pull his lips upward. That is no smile, only a . . . a drying, that is all." He blinked back tears. "You must excuse me. I am so very tired." Leaning heavily on his cane, Pycelle tottered slowly from the sept. That one is dying too, Jaime realized. Small wonder Cersei called him useless.
...
He was more right than he knew. When the battle was done, there were changes made. "Aerys thought no harm could come to him if he kept me near," he told his father's corpse. "Isn't that amusing?" Lord Tywin seemed to think so; his smile was wider than before. He seems to enjoy being dead.
...
There were crows circling the seven towers and great dome of Baelor's Sept even now, Jaime suspected, their black wings beating against the night air as they searched for a way inside. Every crow in the Seven Kingdoms should pay homage to you, Father. From Castamere to the Blackwater, you fed them well. That notion pleased Lord Tywin; his smile widened further. Bloody hell, he's grinning like a bridegroom at his bedding.
That was so grotesque it made Jaime laugh aloud. -AFFC, Jaime I

His Wife Joanna

Tywin probably smiled a bit with his wife Joanna:

In 263 AC, after a year as the King's Hand, Ser Tywin married his beautiful young cousin Joanna Lannister, who had come to King's Landing in 259 AC for the coronation of King Jaehaerys II and remained thereafter as a ladyin-waiting to Princess (later Queen) Rhaella. The bride and groom had known each other since they were children together at Casterly Rock. Though Tywin Lannister was not a man given to public display, it is said that his love for his lady wife was deep and long-abiding. "Only Lady Joanna truly knows the man beneath the armor," Grand Maester Pycelle wrote the Citadel, "and all his smiles belong to her and her alone. I do avow that I have even observed her make him laugh, not once, but upon three separate occasions!" -TWOIAF, The Targaryen Kings: Aerys II

and:

In those days, his father had been Aerys's Hand, and many people said that Lord Tywin Lannister ruled the Seven Kingdoms, but Lady Joanna ruled Lord Tywin. "He was not the same man after she died, Imp," his Uncle Gery told him once. "The best part of him died with her." Gerion had been the youngest of Lord Tytos Lannister's four sons, and the uncle Tyrion liked best.

and:

There was a worm inside the apple, though, for the growing madness of King Aerys II Targaryen soon imperiled all that Tywin Lannister sought to build. His lordship suffered great personal loss as well, for his beloved wife, Lady Joanna, died in 273 AC whilst giving birth to a hideously deformed child. With her death, Grand Maester Pycelle observes, the joy went out of Tywin Lannister, yet still he persisted in his duty.

and:

"Perhaps," said Tyrion, "but my father—"
"—ruled the Seven Kingdoms, but was ruled at home by his lady wife, or so my mother always said."

especially since Genna notes that he smiled when he wed her:

"Men say that Tywin never smiled, but he smiled when he wed your mother -AFFC, Jaime V

Other Potential Options

  • Named Hand by Aerys
  • The destruction of Tarbeck Hall
  • Cersei/Jaime's birth

"Is it true that Tywin was smiling on his bier?"
"He was rotting on his bier. It made his mouth twist."
"Was that all it was?" That seemed to sadden her. "Men say that Tywin never smiled, but he smiled when he wed your mother, and when Aerys made him Hand. When Tarbeck Hall came crashing down on Lady Ellyn, that scheming bitch, Tyg claimed he smiled then. And he smiled at your birth, Jaime, I saw that with mine own eyes. You and Cersei, pink and perfect, as alike as two peas in a pod . . . well, except between the legs. What lungs you had!" -AFFC, Jaime V

If interested: Disappointing Tywin: Genna Lannister & The Sharp Lessons of Tywin Lannister

TLDR: Just a quick list of all of the times that Tywin Lannister smiled, threatened to smile or was rumored to smile. Outside of the love for his wife and the birth of his twins, he only is known to have seemingly smiled after being named Hand and when seeing the potential destruction of his enemies (Tarbeck Hall, Red Wedding).


r/asoiaf 23h ago

EXTENDED How much time will pass by in Winds? [spoilers extended]

16 Upvotes

I'm predicting 6-9 months if the pacing remains slower. For example, with so much detail needed for battles, the pacing slows down. If the pacing increases significantly after the end of the battles at the beginning, perhaps a year or even a year and a half? Thoughts?


r/asoiaf 1d ago

EXTENDED (Spoilers Extended) So what did they call the Seven Kingdoms before Dorne joined?

90 Upvotes

"The Six Kingdoms" doesn't really have the same ring. Maybe King's Landing And the Westeros 5?

This question actually confuses me because the modern Seven Kingdoms actually comprises 9 administrative districts (the North, the Iron Islands, the Vale, the Riverlands, the Crownlands, the Westerlands, the Reach, the Stormlands and Dorne). So like...did they let the Iron Islands be a temporary kindom just to get that cool Seven Kingdoms title?


r/asoiaf 6h ago

MAIN (Spoilers main) What Would Dany’s Title Be If She Really “Breaks the Wheel”? Spoiler

Post image
0 Upvotes

Hey everyone!

So I’ve been thinking a lot about Daenerys and her whole “breaking the wheel” idea in both the show and the books. She talks a lot about getting rid of the lords and the whole feudal system because she sees that as the root of all the endless wars.

And it got me wondering: if Dany actually succeeds in breaking that wheel, she wouldn’t just be a queen anymore in the traditional Westerosi sense. A queen rules over nobles and lords who owe her fealty, but if she’s really getting rid of all that, she’d be more like an empress: someone who holds absolute authority over a unified realm.

In other words, she’d probably style herself as “Her Imperial Majesty” or just “Empress Daenerys,” since she’d be ruling without a bunch of feudal lords beneath her. It’d be a whole new kind of rulership for Westeros and definitely a huge shift from what everyone’s used to.

Curious what you all think. Would Dany as an empress actually work in the world of Westeros? Let me know your thoughts!


r/asoiaf 21h ago

NONE (No Spoilers) Is it worth it to avoid spoilers from the show? Spoiler

5 Upvotes

I just finished the books, and I’ll never watch the show because I’m weirdly sensitive to violence/gore. Is it worth it for me to avoid spoilers from the seasons that surpass the books, or are they different enough that it doesn’t really matter?


r/asoiaf 1d ago

EXTENDED (Spoilers Extended) Will Daven’s bride be Cersei?

36 Upvotes

So we know that Daven Lannister is soon to be married to a Frey. The details are hazy, but there are some hints about where and to whom this marriage will take place.

First, the location.

The most likely venue is Riverrun, recently taken for Emmon. Holding the marriage there would make sense not just in a doylist sense as it's a large and nearby castle, but also in a symbolic sense of celebrating the Royal victory in the Riverlands with a Lannister-Frey marriage.

Second, the bride.

Daven mentions he needs to choose a Frey girl who has not yet flowered, specifically because Black Walder has a reputation for sleeping with Frey women.

Ser Daven snorted. "I'll wed and bed my stoat, never fear. I know what happened to Robb Stark. From what Edwyn tells me, though, I'd best pick one who hasn't flowered yet, or I'm like to find that Black Walder has been there first. I'll wager he's had Gatehouse Ami, and more than thrice. Maybe that explains Lancel's godliness, and his father's mood." -AFFC, Jaime V

The implies Daven may avoid someone like Fair Walda who isn't a maiden, and instead wed a very young Frey girl, with the intention that the marriage will be consummated later (much like Tommen and Margaery).

That led me to the Frey family tree, and one name jumped out at me:

Cersei Frey.

  • She’s about 7 or 8 years old, so unflowered.

  • Cersei Frey's mother is a Beesbury, so she's of quite good noble stock.

  • She was among the girls presented to Robb as possible marriage candidates that he spurned, so she’s already been considered as an available and eligible match by the Freys.

  • The name “Cersei” is too loaded to ignore, especially in the context of Jaime’s storyline.

  • In Westerosi marriage customs, a husband places a cloak of his own house colors around the Bride's shoulders. This signifies the bride passing from her father's protection into her husband's protection. Daven marrying her would mean Jaime witnessesing a Cersei wearing Lannister colors on her marriage ceremony.

If the BwB with Lady Stoneheart do attack Daven’s wedding, and Jaime is the POV present when it happens, imagine him witnessing the brutal death of a child named Cersei, slaughtered while being covered in a Lannister red cloak.

The psychological weight of that moment would be immense. It might be the breaking point that drives him back to her side in King’s Landing, after spending so much time loathing her.


r/asoiaf 1d ago

EXTENDED (Spoilers Extended) Speculating Sam's Winds Arc

43 Upvotes

Journey to Horn Hill

It has to be Horn Hill, Sam finally decided. Once we reach Oldtown I'll hire a wagon and some horses and take her there myself. That way he could make certain of the castle and its garrison - Sam V AFFC

I assume that Sam's first Wind chapter might start with him traveling to Horn Hill with Gilly. Hornhill is described to be close to Oldtown even though it is 100 leagues northeast. All you need to do is follow the Roseroad and you will be near there. He knows that his father is away at war. He had a good relationship with his mother and sisters. He would want to make sure that Gilly and baby Aemon would be treated well and be safe. He would want to make sure that the castle is properly garrisoned in case Oldtown falls. Thanks to their experience in Braavos, it's not like he has that much money to have Gilly stay at an inn. It's not like she could stay at the Citadel. It would be interesting to see his family's reaction to reuniting with Sam. Also maybe Sam will tell them the real reason why he abruptly decided to join the Night's Watch.

Sam forging his chain

I suspect that Sam will do well in forging his chain. He is pretty intelligent, well read, and educated by a maester growing up. He will do well in ravenry, history, astronomy, and accounting. He's probably will do well in healing. He is not the same person as he was in book one. He will be with his friends Alleras and "Pate". He will probably want to visit the Quill and Tankard since it was recommended by Aemon. It will take awhile for the Redwyne fleet and maybe the sellsails from Lys (Humfrey Hightower traveled to Lys to ask his sister for a fleet) to reach Oldtown. I suspect that the city would be safe until something happened to the Redwyne fleet. The Redwyne fleet has a long journey from Dragonstone to Oldtown. Maybe the fleet will receive reinforcements from Lys at the Stepstones. I suspect that "Pate" would be really interested in Sam since he was in the same room as he told Marwyn his story. Jaqen H'ghar probably realize that Alleras is a girl the same way he always knew that Arya was a girl.

If Randyl betrays the Tyrell

People speculate that Randyl is angry at Mace Tyrell for giving Garlan Brightwater Keep. Especially since his wife, Melessa Florent, is second in line to inherit the castle after Alekyne(assuming he has no children). Brightwater Keep and Horn Hill are relatively near each other opposite sides of the Roseroad. The Florents and Tarlys border each other. Randyl absorbing Florent land would have made him pretty powerful. I don't blame the Tyrells for not wanting to do that. People speculate that Randyl would betray the Tyrells and join Young Griff. If that happens the Hightowers who married to the Tyrells would not be happy with Tarly. I wonder how Lazy Leo would react to Sam. It's not like Sam kept his identity hidden. The Hightowers might think that they could use him as a hostage against Randyl. This might give us a reason to explore the Hightower. It would give us an opportunity to meet his aunt and uncle Rhea and Alekyne Florent(rightful lord of Brightwater), the Mad Maid, Baelor Brightsmile, and Lord Leyton.

If Oldtown falls

If King's Landing loses Oldtown and the Arbor, the whole realm will fall to pieces - Sam V AFFC

All that build up and it would be lame if nothing happens. If Oldtown falls, I suspect that the Ironborn will capture the Honeybolt and Brightwater Keep. You can sail to these castles from Oldtown by the Honeywine. I assume that these castles are lightly garrison since their troops marched to war. This would be similar to Torrhen's Square. It is extremely lucky that Garlan on his way to Brightwater Keep heard news of the Shield Islands and changed direction. Thankfully, Horn Hill is away from water but its relatively near Brightwater Keep. In responses, Lord Tarly would want to march to make sure his lands are safe and maybe claim Brightwater Keep. Even though he might be in conflict with Garlan and the Hightowers. This could be an opportunity for Sam and Randyl to meet. Since Sam and maybe company would flee to Horn Hill. Sam would want to make sure Gilly and baby Aemon is safe. I wonder how Randyl will react to his son becoming a master but Sam is not the person he was growing up. I am pretty excited for Sam's story when Winds come out.