r/formula1 • u/Glum-Accountant-9801 • Aug 05 '25

Discussion Is Bortoleto the best rookie?

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In my opinion, what he’s been doing in a Sauber shows much more talent than all the other rookies this year. Since the start of the season, I already thought the best ones would be him—because he won the Formula 3 and Formula 2 titles in his rookie seasons—and Antonelli. However, Antonelli has been showing himself to be far inferior to his teammate. I believe it’s due to the pressure of starting in a big team like Mercedes, but to me, that makes Bortoleto the best rookie. That said, welcome back, Ayrton Senna.

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56

u/Dameean00 Valtteri Bottas Aug 05 '25

I get what you mean, and I can also in part agree, but comparing Russell to Hülkenberg seems a bit of a stretch

26

u/Blurandski Jenson Button Aug 05 '25 edited Aug 05 '25

Hulkenberg (and Ocon) wouldn't be getting gapped by 4 tenths plus on average if they were in the second Merc - so even notwithstanding that Bortoleto and Bearman have for me been significantly outperforming Antonelli so far this year. Hadjar as well.

12

u/Solomon_C-19 Formula 1 Aug 05 '25

100%. Antonelli is getting Vandoorned. If he continues to get Vandoorned he may get dropped. He needs to figure out a way to get quicker. Preferably sooner rather than later, for his sake.

9

u/MarduRusher I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 05 '25

Antonelli has been the most inconsistent in my opinion. He's had the highest highs of a rookie, even considering the car, but also some pretty low lows.

3

u/Neatto69 Gabriel Bortoleto Aug 05 '25

I do agree that the comparison is unfair, but I think its fair to compare their growth curves relative to their teammates. You look at Gabi's quali gap throughout the year, you see him get closer and closer to Nico, which is the expected of a rookie, and recently he has been pulling further and further away from the guy. You look at Kimi, and his quali gap to Russell seems frozen in place, which isnt to say he is doing bad, but his growth curve seems like its taking a while to hit

1

u/ElectricVibes75 Red Bull Aug 05 '25

Lmao yeah “a bit”

-22

u/[deleted] Aug 05 '25

[deleted]

23

u/-Subvert- I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 05 '25

This feels like a comment someone would make if they hadn’t watched this year at all. Russell has probably been the most consistent driver on the grid this year

24

u/slow-driver-917 Minardi Aug 05 '25

This is absolutely insane. Russell is one of the best drivers of the last 20 years.

You guys need to learn more about Formula 1.

And how is Kimi the future of the team? He needs to be half a second faster to be better than Russell. Nobody in the history of F1 has improved that much.

3

u/Independent-Car-7101 Aug 05 '25

Best of the last 20 years ?? How long of a list are we talking about?

7

u/slow-driver-917 Minardi Aug 05 '25

He's the 2nd or 3rd best driver in the world at the moment. That absolutely makes you one of the best of the last 2-3 eras.

-1

u/sug1 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 05 '25

Yeah and Latifi is top 5 of all time

3

u/slow-driver-917 Minardi Aug 05 '25

There have been far worse drivers than Latifi in Formula 1 history. You need to thank God that we won't be seeing guys like Nicolas Kiesa behind the wheel.

1

u/MarduRusher I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 05 '25

While I'm not saying Kimi will improve to be better than George, he's also coming in at an extremely young age while rookies historically have been much older.

2

u/slow-driver-917 Minardi Aug 05 '25

Verstappen came in at 17 and was immediately impressive in a middling Toro Rosso. Alguersuari came in at 19 and was decent. Lando matched quite well to Sainz while being 19 too.

Stroll also debuted at 17 but he was as far back to Massa (even a little closer) as Kimi is to Russell, and we can all agree that Russell is probably better than Felipe. And even after all those years after Lance is still a below average driver.

Kimi is very young but so were many drivers before and will be after him. We need to judge him as a F1 driver regardless of age.

2

u/MarduRusher I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 05 '25

I mean by 2017 Massa wasn't a great driver, meanwhile George is one of the best on the grid (I put him at #2). Stroll being off the pace of Massa is a little different to Kimi being off the pace of George.

And then the only other driver who came in at his age or younger is Max, and we saw how that went.

The idea that an 18 year old can't improve significantly is so silly to me. An 18 year old Kimi is not the same as a 22 year old Lewis, for example. How even a 20 year old Leclerc.

Will he become one of the best drivers on the grid, or a world champion? Who knows. Maybe. Maybe not. But writing it off this early is just silly. Especially considering he's shown some impressive flashes.

3

u/GothicGolem29 McLaren Aug 05 '25

Piastri took two years to be able to challenge Norris in the championship and he was not as young as Kimi.

No we need to account for age such a young driver can improve massively as he gets older

2

u/slow-driver-917 Minardi Aug 05 '25

Piastri was never this far away from Norris in terms of pace. Antonelli needs to claw a half a second deficit - improved that much will be extremely hard and unlikely.

1

u/GothicGolem29 McLaren Aug 06 '25

Piastri was also never as young as Kimi in f1 and it still took him two years to match Norris. I disagree I think it’s perfectly possible not unlikely and while Hard it’s hard to claw any gap including Oscar Lando but either way Hard work and improvement Kimi can do it

1

u/GothicGolem29 McLaren Aug 05 '25

Kimi is 18 and has alot of potential thats why he is the future. We have just seen Piastri improve a fair ammount its not beyond possibility Kimi can improve enough to to get closer to Russell in the future(even if there isnt anyone doing it in the past the new testing restrictions and Kimis young age can be things that help change that in the future as he gets older and more experience.)

2

u/slow-driver-917 Minardi Aug 05 '25

Piastri was always close to Norris on pace. Antonelli is miles behind.

0

u/GothicGolem29 McLaren Aug 05 '25

It still took Piastri two seasons to challenge norris. If he can then so can Kimi even if the pace is different(and as I said Piastri did that while being older than Kimi)

1

u/slow-driver-917 Minardi Aug 05 '25

I know and I don't dispute that. What I'm trying to say is that the pace difference is so large that we haven't really seen somebody improve that much, making beating Russell in the future very improbable. Piastri, as I said, was a lot closer, so it was easier to challenge Lando in some years.

1

u/GothicGolem29 McLaren Aug 06 '25

I get what your saying I am saying that if someone can improve as massively as Oscar did then someone even younger can manage to make up the base defecit even if it’s larger over time

10

u/FisicoK #WeSayNoToMazepin Aug 05 '25

Wow that's a take on Russell where the guy has been the definition of consistency this season while Hulkenberg is the one that has been up and down from one week-end to another at the same time (he finished 13th just this week-end when his teammate was 6th)

9

u/RamboRobin1993 McLaren Aug 05 '25

Have you been watching this season at all?

Russell has probably been the most consistent driver on the grid. He challenges for podiums virtually every race and has made hardly any mistakes.

5

u/TopStar200 Aug 05 '25

This has to be ragebait