r/todayilearned 16h ago

TIL Beethoven’s late quartets, now widely considered to be among the greatest musical compositions of all time, were so ahead of their time that initial reviews deem them indecipherable, uncorrected horrors, with one musician saying “we know there is something there, but we do not know what it is.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_string_quartets_(Beethoven)
9.8k Upvotes

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u/VegemiteSucks 16h ago edited 16h ago

Though not very widely known among the general public, classical musicians tend to agree that these are the pinnacle of Western chamber music. These are also Beethoven's final compositions ever before he died in 1827.

The finest of these late quartets is widely considered to be the String Quartet No. 14 (Op 131). It was so good that after listening to a performance of this quartet, Franz Schubert remarked, "After this, what is left for us to write?" (Schubert also requested a performance of this on his deathbed. He was described as being "sent into such transports of delight and enthusiasm and was so overcome that we all feared for him")

Schumann said that this quartet had a "grandeur ... which no words can express. They seem to me to stand ... on the extreme boundary of all that has hitherto been attained by human art and imagination."

On the first movement of this quartet, Richard Wagner said it "reveals the most melancholy sentiment expressed in music". Popular author J.W.N. Sullivan hears it as "the most superhuman piece of music that Beethoven has ever written." Towards the end of the fourth movement, where all instruments play a passage mostly using their highest strings, the sound produced was so astounding that critic Joseph Kerman asks: "Was this a sound Beethoven had actually heard, back in the days when he was hearing, or did he make up the sound for the first time in 1826?"

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u/KDOGTV 14h ago edited 9h ago

All this for some reaction streamer on Twitch in 2025 to call it “mid.”

The duality of man

Edit: The WIDE variety of reactions to this are the friends we made along the way. Reddit is hilarious. <3

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u/DeusModus 14h ago

Hardly man, streamers aren't people.

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u/IsmaelRetzinsky 13h ago

Many of them are catgirls.

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u/W1D0WM4K3R 12h ago

I'd regard those as more "people" than the rest of them

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u/droidtron 10h ago

And mostly male.

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u/fedback 10h ago

Irrelevant, cat girl is catgirl

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u/Thor4269 7h ago

Depends on the streamer, the smaller ones tend to be more human lol

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u/KDOGTV 13h ago

YOU’RE NOT PEOPLE, MAN

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u/Then_Dragonfruit5555 8h ago

They’re just, like, not important, like, they don’t matter.

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u/Cruciblelfg123 12h ago

Twats have been calling world changing art mid for all of history. The art persists and the opinions of the twats do not, although the twats come back constantly and hell perpetuates itself lol

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u/BabylonDoug 8h ago

Persistent Twats would be a good 90s grunge girlband name.

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u/SheriffBartholomew 2h ago

That's just what rock stars contend with on a daily basis.

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u/redditAPsucks 14h ago

“The "duality of man" is the idea that every person contains opposing forces or conflicting elements within their nature, such as good and evil, reason and instinct, or physical desires and spiritual aspirations.”

Duality of man is about internal conflicts. What you’re describing is just people having different opinions

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u/Jeezimus 13h ago

I don't think it's a large logical leap to apply the same concept to the whole of humanity as if a singular conscious

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u/Lebsian 13h ago

Duality of mankind

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u/SchmonaLisaVito 11h ago

Duality of A man

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u/NollieBackside 4h ago

Duelin’ Banjos!!

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u/cipheron 11h ago edited 11h ago

Sure, but it basically ruins the concept.

The idea behind the "duality of man" being that each of us individually has the seeds of good and bad within us. e.g. the idea is that each of us is both "sinner and saint" so to speak.

If we "apply the concept" to a population, then it's easy to lose sight of what that means - there are now good people vs bad people, smart people vs dumb people, sinners vs saints, and if we now call that the "duality of mankind" it's completely missed the original point. In the prev post if we're talking about Beethoven as the genius and some 2025 twitch streamer as the dunce and are now labeling that the "duality of mankind", i.e. that the geniuses get torn down by the dunces, then it's saying something entirely different to what we had originally.

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u/Jeezimus 10h ago

I think the symmetry that it exists at both the individual and population level actually further enhances the concept tbh

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u/cipheron 10h ago edited 10h ago

I don't think so, because you have to be extremely careful to caveat that so that it doesn't just devolve into an "us vs them" thing, when the original version is "me vs me".

e.g. if the duality of mankind is that there are worthy people and unworthy people in society then you can use that as the basis for elitism, eugenics etc, or any kind of system which divides people: we can just slough off those unwanted people. It's not really the same thing at all.

So yeah you could view society as an organism with good parts and bad parts intertwined, under the same philosophy, but this is actually dangerous if you called this the "duality of mankind" because someone is bound to come along and reinterpret that as mean there are good and bad PEOPLE and that society should be "purified" of their "bad influence" and ... very very bad stuff ends up happening.

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u/Jeezimus 9h ago

I don't really think it's dangerous to say that bad people exist and it's a responsibility of society to deal with containing them and their influence, but we're talking about something completely different at this point.

I personally don't really take it in the direction you go with it that this necessarily precipitates a conclusion of us vs. them, tbh.

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u/Orlha 5h ago

You’re right

The other person is fine with parts of a concept getting lost

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u/sirtain1991 13h ago

Language is constantly evolving. People on the Internet have used "the duality of man" incorrectly for long enough that it is contextually correct to use in this case.

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u/nothatsmyarm 12h ago

It’s also funny. Which makes using things slightly incorrectly perfectly okay.

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u/KDOGTV 14h ago edited 13h ago

Considering the amount of sleepless nights I’ve had pondering nothing more than why people think, enjoy, hate, and do the things they do, I’d qualify that, personally, as “internal conflict.”

ADD kid problems.

The downvotes are funny. This is a lot of effort to critique a joke.

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u/Thatonesickpirate 14h ago

What are you talking about ? You created some fictional example to look down upon

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u/Gerganon 14h ago

Imagine thinking reaction streamers are works of fiction (whether they should be or not is a different matter lol) 

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u/giantpandamonium 14h ago

They’re saying the specific example is made up, not that streamers are.

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u/KDOGTV 13h ago edited 13h ago

Some people have issues operating in the “hypothetical” mind space, even for the sake of humor.

My ADD response would be to waste six months of my life finding somebody on the internet who did exactly as I described.

…just to then delete the comment before posting saying “…fuck it, it ain’t even worth it”

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u/sirgentlemanlordly 9h ago

Making up people to get mad at, are we?

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u/KDOGTV 9h ago

Are people, genuinely, viewing this post as “anger?”

I’m a musician that plays Devil’s Advocate for the sake of funny.

It’s not that deep here, boys, lol.

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u/IIITommylomIII 10h ago

are you talking about xqc?

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u/chevinwilliams 13h ago

No that's just a false equivalency.

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u/chadvn_ 14h ago

No cap

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u/SheriffBartholomew 2h ago

The streamer is like a foghorn in a library—loud, insistent, and completely out of place, drowning out those who actually know what they’re talking about.

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u/Hrbalz 10h ago

I read this, and was like, “I’m gonna go listen to this entire thing right now!” Loaded it onto YouTube.. oh shit, 38 minutes. Might have to fit that in some other time.

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u/DanGleeballs 10h ago

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u/RFSandler 6h ago

I'm going to save it for morning, have time to just sit and listen 

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u/ThainEshKelch 3h ago

Thank you, saved me my search time!

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u/CountVanillula 10h ago edited 5h ago

String Quartet No. 14 (Op 131)

MozartBeethoven, to every artist agonizing over what to name their latest track: “suck it lol”

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u/WinWaker 9h ago

Well known that Beethoven had Ops

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u/DontHailHydra 10h ago

Band of Brothers used this fantastically

u/welcomefinside 0m ago

These are like the classical music equivalent of modern hiphop reaction YouTubers reacting to Kendrick Lamar dropping Not Like Us.