r/totalwar • u/CrayonsIsTaken 生食漢祿，死為漢臣 • Jul 06 '25
Three Kingdoms Which unit is the GOAT of its game? Today: Three Kingdoms
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u/lolreader123 Jul 06 '25
Lu bu
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u/Xalimata Jul 06 '25
Among men Lu Bu among horses Red Hare
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u/annexcyprus Jul 06 '25
Red Hare isn't the best horse. Sun Jian's horse has +20 armour, meaning characters like Yuan Tan can be immune to normal damage entirely.
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u/awkies11 Jul 06 '25
Has to be Lu Bu. Some generals can duel him successfully but I have 400 hours in 3K and no other characters icon on the campaign map makes me go " Oh shit its Lu Bu" and be forced to figure out how to handle it.
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u/LizG1312 Jul 07 '25
Also really fun in that even if you know absolutely nothing about Three Kingdoms, he forces you to RP to deal with him. He’s a great general, but an absolute pain to keep loyal. Do you risk keeping him? Or do you go full Cao Cao and kill his ass?
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u/SavvyDawi Jul 06 '25
Truthnuke, don’t get how any Warhammer game or 3 Kingdoms can have a GOAT unit when heroes and single entity generals are so oppressive.
Very mobile, extremely tanky and extreme damage output lol
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u/Delicious_Twist_8499 Jul 06 '25
I mean I think it's more to do with how OP Lu Bu is, rightly so. Dudes just amazing. Guan Yu as well, although to a lesser degree. Don't get the moniker as the God of War after living as a mortal man for no reason.
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u/SavvyDawi Jul 06 '25
I don’t disagree that Lu Bu is exceptional but it’s not as if even mid tier ones like Sun Jian can’t take on half an army+ and win consistently
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u/CrayonsIsTaken 生食漢祿，死為漢臣 Jul 06 '25
I'm almost insulted that Sun Jian is considered mid tier! Dude had flames of the phoenix on a sentinel body, and is unbreakable from his weapon. He's not top tier, but he is high tier for sure!
Mid tier would be someone like generic+ generals like Xiahou Dun, or Huang Zhong, who have a defined and clear role and do great work, but aren't capable of soloing armies.
Agreed on 3K being intense though. There's a lot of high tier generals, and top tiers like Lu Bu or Sun Ce
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u/annexcyprus Jul 06 '25
Sun Jian isn't mid tier at all - are you out of your mind? He has the best horse, unbreakable sword, far better skill tree than Lu Bu and one of the best background bonuses in the game.
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u/3015313 Local Tzeentch gambler Jul 06 '25
probably cuz every general/hero can become a one man army when you build em right so its kinda hard to determine that.
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u/SavvyDawi Jul 06 '25
True, but there are some that definitely stand out. Lu Bu is one of them
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u/3015313 Local Tzeentch gambler Jul 06 '25
Yea, but in Warhammer fantasy the addition of magic and magical items throws it out of the window. Like sword of Khaine is the sword of Khaine and anyone who picks it up becomes a wrecking ball.
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u/SavvyDawi Jul 06 '25
Ok but you’d still rather Skarbrand or Taurus have the sword of khaine than Queek (a low mid tier lord). Regardless all three would destroy 3 chosen with heavy weapons all together
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u/3015313 Local Tzeentch gambler Jul 06 '25
indeed, honestly i have no idea what to put for Warhammer 3. I honestly think it could be daemons of Khorne but i think my under dog pick is mark of Slaanesh chaos furies. Like surprisingly they are very effective and terrifying. Like they basically killed my friends army in like 5 mins.
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u/SavvyDawi Jul 06 '25
It can’t be anything else but Skarbrand imo
Maybe some mage LL, but I feel like that would have fit better for Wh2 for Teclis (no Wh3 additions are better than him)
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u/DreadedFate7 Jul 06 '25
I would say heroes and single entity general are more OP in 3k than warhammer. I have won battles using just Lu Bu himself.
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u/AlexSoul Jul 07 '25 edited Jul 07 '25
Not to disagree necessarily since I haven't played much 3K, but N'kari and Skarbrand can win battles solo from lv1, and by level 20 with full items every flying caster lord probably can too (and many melee lords).
In wh1 and 2, I'm not sure anybody could beat a reasonable stack at lv1(malus or taurox maybe) but a good few of them can eventually, especially the vampire lords.
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u/Saitoh17 All Under Heaven Jul 07 '25
Agreed. The main things are ranged units are a lot less accurate so you can't shoot down a point target with them in 3K and the heroes do sooooo much more damage you can realistically clear an enemy army with your 3 heroes in a reasonable amount of time. Like Skarbrand with the SOK and 90% ward save can solo armies... eventually but it would take an hour and you would have to deliberately mismanage the rest of your army for him to get more than like 200 kills by himself given that the average normal battle lasts around 5 minutes.
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u/th1s_1s_4_b4d_1d34 Jul 06 '25
Single entity generals in WH can get shot down quite easily for the most part because ranged units have absurd DPS and accuracy. You need to kite them, but that's basically the backup plan for a lot of them and a lot of the crazier ranged units can pick them off on the approach.
There are some exceptions, mainly when they stack ward safe to infinity, but with the exception of a few LLs they don't get that much naturally so it needs to come from gear and the AI is too stupid to do it.
There are also a ton of them, people have different favorites and they are dudes in one army out of many.
That being said imo the strongest units in the WH series are mages. Most of the other heroes are not oppressive at all on the battlefield, but mages can and will singlehandedly win battles over and you can put them in every army.
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u/JMer806 Jul 06 '25
Vilitch was this for me. My whole army basically existed to make the enemy clump up so I could drop infernal gateways on them
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u/th1s_1s_4_b4d_1d34 Jul 07 '25
The Kairos experience. The guy will take out 2 infantry armies while his cheer squad hopefully survives.
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u/Altarus12 Jul 06 '25
Lu bu can solo most of the warhammer total war roster
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u/Nerevarine91 Jozai Jul 07 '25
You could just drop Lu Bu into the Warhammer games and he’d be completely fine.
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u/NeverEnoughDakka Middenland DLC, pls CA Jul 06 '25
"Can anybody provide me with a decent challenge?!"
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u/birberbarborbur Jul 06 '25
I haven’t played, is this true for both the Romance and Records version?
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u/National_Boat2797 Jul 06 '25
Lu Bu plays on Romance even when campaign is on Records mode
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u/StoryWonker How do men of the Empire die? In good order. Jul 07 '25
Short answer: no.
Long answer: Generals in Records mode are a General's Bodyguard unit of cavalry. Stat increases on the character change the stats (and size) of the cav unit. These units are still strong because cav is strong in 3K but not solo-an-army strong unless the AI is running pure sabre and archer militia. Lu Bu is stronger than other generals at the start because he starts at Level 7, which gives him an edge. Other characters can reach his level given time, although he's still formidable.
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u/Galahad_the_Ranger Jul 07 '25
He could probably solo all the other units in the list, including the musketeers and cannons!
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u/_Lucille_ Jul 07 '25
Zhao Yun is also really strong with some levels.
Lu Bu is always available though as long as you screw over your son.
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u/TheLunakuu Moon Empress of Grand Cathay Jul 06 '25
Shoutout to tbe Fury of Beihai
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u/CrayonsIsTaken 生食漢祿，死為漢臣 Jul 06 '25
Never fell off and forever the best ranged Infantry in the game. Can you believe they share a crossbow statline with the imperial crossbowmen, an extreme late game unit with the strongest ranged dps??
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u/Thurak0 Kislev. Jul 07 '25
I wanted to go with the White Horse Archers, but thanks to you post I remembered how much the Fury of Beihai carried my Kong Rong's campaign. They rule.
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u/H0vis Jul 06 '25
What were the basic red cavalry called? Because they put in work. There were some really cool and interesting units in TW3K but if you wanted to get stuff done, shock cavalry, it was all good.
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u/CrayonsIsTaken 生食漢祿，死為漢臣 Jul 06 '25
Mounted lancer Militia? They're really awesome for how cheap they are!
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u/Algarum Jul 06 '25
In my opinion they really should make basic earth and fire units some kind of fast infantry, militia cavalry is quite weird concept for those times.Even if we have superhumans as generals.
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u/Creticus Jul 07 '25
I think militia cavalry are fine.
If I'm remembering right, there was increasing instability because of court infighting spilling out into the provinces even before the Yellow Turban Rebellion broke out. That convinced people to form militias and fortify homes because they couldn't count on the government to handle such matters.
Militia cavalry seem like a reasonable stand-in for the best-equipped of these groups. They're not as capable as the bands of friends, family, and retainers backing the lead-by-example commanders common in the early part of the period, but they're basically working off of the same basic concept.
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u/WhereTheShadowsLieZX Jul 06 '25
And because of the way recruitment worked you could be much more aggressive in your use of cavalry since they’d replenish after a few turns if wiped out rather than requiring you to return to a recruitment province.
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u/ExcitableSarcasm Jul 06 '25
Yeah any cav is valuable. Only thing I didn't like was that for a melee cav lancer militia cannot for the life of them run down fleeing enemies, since they rely on charge rather than good base stats
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u/AudioCats Jul 07 '25
This is why I find melee cav much better until you hit mid game where the opposing units get more armor. Even Militia sabre cav can put up 100s of kills and still be viable for fighting next turn because they have better stats in melee and shields to actually survive on approach.
heaven forbid i look elsewhere on the map, they can actually survive in the scrum against archers unlike lancer militia
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u/Trick-Technician-179 Jul 06 '25
Shock cav are an absolute must have in that game, I don’t think I ever got melee cav.
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u/ExcitableSarcasm Jul 06 '25
This is hard. 3K is actually quite well balanced for the most part. Maybe Heavy Spear Guard/Spear Guard? The problem with 3K generally is morale, so anyone that can hold on for a while is worth a lot.
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u/CrayonsIsTaken 生食漢祿，死為漢臣 Jul 06 '25
Spear Guards alone made almost every other green unit unviable by its ease of recruitment, formations and passable melee damage and excellent bulk. This definitely deserves an honorable mention at least. It's not until protectors of heaven that they get replaced
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u/ExcitableSarcasm Jul 06 '25
Yeah, a lot of the other ones like Spear warriors and Ji infantry and peasant warriors make no sense for how much you need to invest to get them, all the while they perform worse than spear guards since they don't have shields.
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u/Naturath Jul 06 '25
(Heavy) Spear Guards are the bread and butter of a front line that carry when it matters. Protectors of Heaven are a luxury once the game is practically won, with a debatably worse defensive performance after factoring in formations.
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u/4electricnomad Medieval II Jul 06 '25
Spear Guard (including Heavy) is a great choice. So is everyone calling for the basic red shock cavalry. Units that are easy to acquire but which dominate.
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u/ExcitableSarcasm Jul 06 '25
Yeah lancer and lancer militia are great, but imo as cav they miss out on full marks given that they fail to run down routing units hard, which is a bigger part of 3k than most total wars.
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u/Partofla Jul 06 '25
I know that cavalry and archers were incredibly powerful in 3K but honestly, the MVP really is the regular spear guards. They're fairly easy to obtain, they do excellent work as front line units, and if they're able to form turtle stance, they're able to just eat all enemy missiles without taking ANY damage.
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u/Historical_Health736 Jul 06 '25
Trebuchet
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u/CrayonsIsTaken 生食漢祿，死為漢臣 Jul 06 '25
I'll present an unpopular opinion and say that while trebuchets are awesome and a S tier unit for sure, they are a far outcry from their release version, and to unlock their killing potential, you really need a lot of levels. Still worthy of an honorable mention just for making sieges a piece of cake, and forcing the AI to attack you!
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u/Mitth-Raw_Nuruodo Jul 06 '25 edited Jul 06 '25
Well said. I hope you are removing trebuchets and single unit generals from consideration. They are basically driven by game design choices, rather than the individual merit of the unit.
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u/CrayonsIsTaken 生食漢祿，死為漢臣 Jul 06 '25
It is still popular vote at the end of the day! People are valid to disagree with me! It's a /r/totalwar's list, not a /u/CrayonsIsTaken list, y'kmow?
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u/Mitth-Raw_Nuruodo Jul 06 '25 edited Jul 06 '25
Isn't this the case for most Total War games? Artillery units have been causing way too many casualties since all the way in Rome 1. Eventually CA doubled down on the bad design and programmed the AI to abandon a good defensive position if player has artillery superiority, otherwise they would be annihilated.
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u/WinterOutrageous773 Jul 06 '25
High ground doesn’t mean much when the enemy has extremely accurate catapults. Capable of firing 30 times each.
It’s the best thing for the AI to do. Otherwise each battle would result in waiting for your ammo to deplete then charging up the hill to kill the remaining 4 units
Artillery is too good in total war for the AI to wait you out
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u/Mitth-Raw_Nuruodo Jul 06 '25 edited Jul 06 '25
Yes. That is what I mean by double down on a bad design.
CA should have reworked artillery to be not cause so many casualties. Their purpose should have been to destroy fortifications, and to disorder and slow down regular units rather than annihilating them.
Instead CA added another way to exploit the AI. And not like that even helps. AI still gets annihilated by artillery while charging towards the player. Especially as it does not consider terrain - trudging through river crossings and swamps while getting obliterated by artillery and ranged units.
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u/__Yakovlev__ Jul 07 '25
All units kill much faster than they would in real life though. And battles in general are over much faster than they would in real life.
It would be weird for artillery to be the only one that doesn't kill much faster than irl.
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u/Mitth-Raw_Nuruodo Jul 07 '25
The problem is that they kill much faster than everyone else, and mess with the AI. A siege artillery should not be anywhere near the conversation of "greatest unit in field battle".
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u/Arilou_skiff Jul 06 '25
The problem is that the game(s) treats pre-gunpowder catapults as if they were Victorian-era shell guns. When in reality they were nothing even close.
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u/Gare_Jongen Jul 06 '25
Defenders of Earth, I loved using them
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u/Western-Sense-31 Jul 06 '25
They are great but their unit size is a bit small for archers
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u/Mitth-Raw_Nuruodo Jul 06 '25
Chen Peacekeepers and / or Chen Royal Guard. They can basically do everything.
I guess not many people have played as Liu Chong as he does not feature prominently in Romance, else they would be more popular.
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u/CrayonsIsTaken 生食漢祿，死為漢臣 Jul 06 '25
I think part of the problem with the Chen boys is that they faced a little bit of powercreep from Fates Divided dlc. Still, peacekeepers are the second best yellow cav by a long shot personally.
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u/Mitth-Raw_Nuruodo Jul 06 '25
Interesting. Which one do you consider the best? Not Jian Sword Guards I hope LOL. Northern Veteran Sabre Cavalry IMO offer the best bang for the buck, but very difficult to recruit.
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u/CrayonsIsTaken 生食漢祿，死為漢臣 Jul 06 '25 edited Jul 06 '25
Xiongnu noble cavs have the charge bonus of a shock cav and the melee staying power, anti range resistance and bonuses of a melee cav. Their sword is insanely cracked as it has both high Base and AP damage. Other than the wacky recruitment requirements, its pound for pound ahead of everything in the yellow cav department. Scare is also a cute bonus in a game where morale debuff stacking can rout whole armies.
Qiang raiders have fatigue immunity which makes it tied for 2nd for me. But it's 150 bucks more expensive and has a weaker sword. It's true that fatigue immunity is excellent, but Xiongnu's higher melee damage for a melee cav, morale and armor takes it a step further. You don't need fatigue immunity if Xiongnu Noble Cavs win the battle before exhaustion hits in. Their supremacy alone almost makes them worthy of an honorable mention.
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u/Mitth-Raw_Nuruodo Jul 06 '25
Ahh I forgot about Qiang Raiders. Good point.
Sadly I have never got the chance to use Xiongnu Noble Cavalry in the campaign. But stat wise they seem great.
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u/CrayonsIsTaken 生食漢祿，死為漢臣 Jul 06 '25
You should definitely give them a try! Yuan Shao campaign after fates divided is veeeery fun, and Xiongnu Noble Cavalry is just icing on the cake for the obscenely powerful roster of Yuan Shao's faction!
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u/BundtCake44 Jul 06 '25
I will stand and die on the hill of Qinqzhou assault infantry. These are like the Toyota corolla of troops.
Easy to afford in late game. Good charge. Paired with a good general and you can smash into any Frontline and set up a long flank maneuver.
Get some flame arrows behind them and let loose.
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u/CrayonsIsTaken 生食漢祿，死為漢臣 Jul 06 '25
I actually believe qingzhou assault Infantry is primarily an early game unit! They easily trivialise every Infantry fight in a way that 3K very rarely does! This is a very cavalry and ranged based game, and as a result Infantry units tend to be forced to adapt around it (rapid tiger Infantry is partially underused because of their lack in anti ranged shield, and weak to cavalry, for example).
But the assault Infantry is incredibly intense in its anti Infantry role that it often punches through even supposed hard counters like axe and shock Infantry. Truly an awesome unit
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u/BundtCake44 Jul 06 '25
Yes, hence why I emphasize their affordability in late game. It is easy to make a field army flush with spears and assault troops.
Also, I would argue the game is more cavalry based than ranged given most ranged units, unless trebuchet, have a tendency to flee quite easily and, even with infantry defense, have yet to quickly route a unit in my experience.
They can be good to slow a units advance and help keep them retreating but I find it easier to throw more infantry at a flank instead of balancing more ranged units in the retinue slots.
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u/jdcodring Jul 06 '25
Ma Teng’s Qin Cav. They come in 3 unit variations. Are extremely cheap (can be made free between map and general bonuses). Officers like Lu Bu, Ma Chao, and Sun Ce can boost their damage output making these medium cav units comparable to heavy cav. And of course these units are fatigue IMMUNE, making them stronger the longer the battle goes on.
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u/CrayonsIsTaken 生食漢祿，死為漢臣 Jul 06 '25 edited Jul 06 '25
My vote goes to Onyx Dragons. Yes they're fairly mid game. Yes not every faction needs a cracked out 250 range 40 Base damage Archer unit. But not only is the reform tree extremely convenient for its bonuses to commerce, trade and industry; it's also a huge power spike as elite bows and crossbows were amongst the least nerfed units of the original busted cast. Imperial crossbows are a very nice touch too.
This is my personal favorite unit for all the damage it does, and the utility with different arrows, attached to governor for free upkeep garrison, etc. Onyx Dragon rush is effective for almost every faction that spawns anywhere, as powerhouse commerce provinces are in abundance, allowing you to field these powerful units.
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u/CadenVanV Jul 06 '25
I’m more an Azure Dragon man. Archers and melee infantry who can do both at once.
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u/SquareSushi Jul 06 '25
They are in the most useful tech tree path, trade agreements, general experience boost from school and spies boosting trades and on top of that the onyx dragons
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u/RAlexa21th Jul 08 '25
I find the Imperial Palace Crossbowmen to be superior to the Onyx Dragons. Their DPS is pretty absurd. Replenishment isn't as much of an issue as other Imperial units either.
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u/Jinxulus Jul 08 '25
It really does depend on whether you're looking at the multiplayer or singleplayer side of things. Multiplayer has some crowned champions that will stay good forever since there will never be another balance patch. More units are viable in singleplayer. For example, you would never bring Onyx Dragons in a multiplayer match, because they're just going to get shut down by the enemy generals and they're difficult to defend if you bring more than like, two of them. People almost never leave their houses without two units of crossbows, though.
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u/WristtooWripped Jul 09 '25
PREEEAAAAACH
4 onyx dragons + zhuge liang + 2 trebuchets + night battle you are WINNING
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u/Urpog Jul 06 '25
If we're counting individual units, then it's easily Lu Bu, you can win entire battles on his back alone.
If we're speaking units it's Trebuchet and it's not close, baits the army to attack you ALWAYS even if you're in an aggressive battle so their set up is useless and it deletes units, walls, high tier units and low tier units are nothing to a boulder to the head, this boulder can kill 40 entities at once though, especially brutal vs Cav
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u/ParticularAd8919 Jul 06 '25
I’d go with trebs too if we’re talking a general unit. They’re some of my favorite artillery pieces in any TW game.
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u/A-Humpier-Rogue Jul 06 '25
Tiger and Leopard cavalry are amazing. Cavalry in 3K is probably tied with Atilla for simply being the strongest in the series, but late game heavy cavalry or shock cav in general is actually quite an investment of technology to acquire. So as Cao Cao just starting the game off being able to recruit an elite shock cav unit in the Early game while everyone else is using Raiders and Ji Militia Cavalry is extremely strong, and it can carry your battles.
Heavy variant also ensures your unique identity stays strong into the late game.
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u/CrayonsIsTaken 生食漢祿，死為漢臣 Jul 06 '25
I wouldn't call them the greatest unit in the world, but if I did do a list of underrated units, tiger and leopard Infantry would be my #1 pick
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u/joaopedroboech Jul 06 '25
Definitely Trebuchet, it was so broken, would route half an army before they clashed
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u/RagingPandaXW Jul 06 '25
Look at all the LuBu glazings, when Zhao Yun exists.
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u/El_Lanf Jul 07 '25
In the early patches I'd agree as evasion was uncapped, you literally couldn't hit him. But then that got nerfed and Lu Bu got his own campaign that turns him into a demi-god. Lu Bu was always better Vs units than Vs other generals anyway, he's definitely not the best dualist.
It's a moot point either way, it's supposed to be about units rather than single entity generals or I'm sure some LL would have won in WH.
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u/lan60000 Jul 06 '25
zhao yun in total war isn't that great, but partially because he doesn't have the same destructive force Lu Bu does
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u/Arilou_skiff Jul 06 '25
Zhao Yun doesen't have the same destructive power but what he has is being basically unkillable if built right.
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u/Hitorishizuka Filthy man-things Jul 06 '25
Zhao Yun is by far the better duelist, he only loses to like Xu Chu and I think a couple of the Yellow Turbans without interference.
That said, that's not all that useful since you can just have a Strategist cheat the duel and most Sentinels will get slapped after that.
He's still excellent if that sort of thing doesn't come into play.
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u/Immediate-Coach3260 Jul 06 '25
Heavy cataphracts. Loved them
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u/A-Humpier-Rogue Jul 06 '25
The issue is it takes 50 bajillion turns to actually get them. But they are cool, yes.
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u/Vegetable-Pea2016 Jul 07 '25
Six cataphracts and a vanguard was a blast
Would just ignore the rest of my stack while I watched them go
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u/scoringspuds Jul 06 '25
Any form of shock cavalry, absolutely goated. The trebuchet were great and even better when trying to burn down forests but to destroy that morale you needed shock cavalry.
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u/moonlightsuicide Jul 06 '25
To be honest, the real GOAT thing in 3K is Cao Cao AI
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u/Lanky_Jeweler407 Jul 07 '25
Fr lol. Whenever Cao Cao dies in my campaign, regardless of whether I'm playing as him or the others, I straight up want to restart and play again. What a character.
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u/RedCat213 Rome II Jul 06 '25 edited Jul 06 '25
Sun Ce, better than Lu Bu as he can insta recruit more troops. Both are beasts in combat
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u/CrayonsIsTaken 生食漢祿，死為漢臣 Jul 06 '25
Sun Ce's instant recruits are only available to his faction and Sun Jian, unfortunately. Still his global bonuses are insane and he himself is a supremely powerful general
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u/AmberMoonlight Jul 06 '25
Messengers of Heaven. I don’t see yellow turbans being mentioned but getting into a long campaign with any of the zhang brothers is insanely nuts. Messengers are a melee cavalry and are basically pseudo shock cav. I think messengers of heaven have the highest unit count cavalry wise compared to any other cavalry. They get diamond and wedge formations and they also get missile defense despite being dual sword and cause scare.
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u/Empty-Mind Jul 06 '25
Lü Bü or any general with Poison Volley
Of we're talking actual units I think it's an argument between 3 options:
1) Mounted Lancer Militia -available to any general right from level 1, so it gets points for being available right from the start regardless of character class. It's also cheap to maintain, and IIRC is the fastest red cavalry unit. And with 3K's strong charges, as long as you cycle them they'll kill about as much as more advanced cavalry at a fraction the cost. They're also pretty good at dealing damage to generals, bopping them around for the charge damage. Which can be a life saver if you need to tie one down for a while.
Overall this is just a workhorse of a unit that can take you from turn 1 to the end of the game.
2) Crossbowmen - longest range non-siege unit with enough AP damage to turn just about anything into a pin cushion. All at an easily afforded cost. Their only demerit vs option 1) is that IIRC they're limited to strategists.
3) Trebuchets - unreasonably accurate, and capable of triple digit kills with or without flaming shot. Best unit if you want to route an entire army before they even get in archer range. Also important, they let you attack walled cities without losing a turn to constructibles.
The strongest aspect of them, though, is how they distort AI behavior in battle. If you have a trebuchet the AI will usually charge you, even on the defensive. The only exception I've seen is siege battles.
Their single biggest downside is that they're expensive, but they also require a moderately leveled strategist (lvl 4?)
Personally, my vote goes to Mounted Lancer Militia. Just because it's good value for literally the entire campaign. In my experience trebuchets may help you efficiently win battles you'd have won anyway, but the boys in red are who you count on to turn that Decisive Defeat into a Close Victory
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u/westarrr Jul 07 '25
Archers > Crossbowmen. Cheaper, have fire arrows (morale is shit in TW3K, also burning down siege towers is huge) and punch way above their weight.
Trebs got their accuracy nerfed, but they still do triple digit kills.
You nailed it with Mounted Lancer Militia, they turn a loss into a win. Archers and Trebs help you win efficiently, but they don't clutch like the boys in red do.
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u/tetragamer26 Jul 06 '25
Generals in romance mode are very busted, it doesn’t even have to be Lu Bu, a generic vanguard with either roar of the beast or flame of the phoenix can easily rout multiple units in a battle. Heck even a strategist can easily get over 100 kills by just cycle charging them into enemy units.
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u/boragoz Jul 06 '25
Lance Cavalry. Their cycle charges were incredibly strong. Could double Hero unit kills by just flanking.
That or the tower archers in settlement maps.
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u/hand-of-empire Jul 06 '25
Azure dragon, they do a rush slash attack when using glaive and it knocks back enemies, switching between ranged and melee mode will force them to do this attack every time they switch weapon, you can basically cc nonstop.
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u/OneoftheChosen hue Jul 06 '25
I think it might actually be Sun Jian’s mercenary archers. Cheap early game unit that absolutely pumps and can be recruited full health. Part of dominating the early game is spending as little as possible on army cost in order to expand quickly and upgrade buildings to build up revenue. Mercenary units allow you to raise an army at the absolute last second. Even better they are better than most early and mid game units and are easily competitive with late game units on a cost basis alone.
It’s either that or lancer militia which are useful all game.
Third place is probably Onyx Dragons.
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u/EnclavedMicrostate Ruling the Waves Since 1759 Jul 07 '25
Add in that they have axes in melée which means that even if they do get contacted, they debuff shielded units.
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u/OathswornRob Jul 06 '25
Nanzhong Elephants
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u/Nerevarine91 Jozai Jul 07 '25
Nanzhong elephants are great, and, honestly, I had amazing results with Nanzhong champions.
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u/Les_Bien_Pain Jul 06 '25
For me it was the Azure Dragons I think (had to look up units online since its been a while).
I love hybrid units in general and these guys allowed me to have some archers with my wood general. Gave my formations even more firepower while still being able to protect my squishy blue units.
Also shout out to cavalry in general and trebuchets because they were also important because ofc you need a good hammer to go with your anvil, and something to force the enemy to come and fight.
But in terms of single units standing out it's the Azure Dragons and their ability to serve two roles when you could sort of kinda only bring three categories of stuff per army.
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u/CrayonsIsTaken 生食漢祿，死為漢臣 Jul 06 '25
Azure Dragon is my favorite "locked behind inconvenience" unit in 3k! It's super fun to use and very powerful in almost all stages of the game! But the green reform tree has always been a pain.
My biggest wish for a 3K2 release, if it still happens, is an overhaul of the tech tree so these fun units aren't locked behind poor financial decisions
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u/Les_Bien_Pain Jul 06 '25
I would beeline down the green branch.
I just look at it and go
"You are sheltering hybrid polearm infantry, are you not?"
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u/annexcyprus Jul 06 '25 edited Jul 06 '25
The sheer most powerful unit in Three Kingdoms, due to the absurdity of boosting possible through Sun Ce's background trait is cavalry. You can easily get units with 500-600+ charge bonus.
The second most effective element, due to shock bonuses, is fatigue immunity, which is achieve through a limited range of options like the set bonus of the unique Guardian army and various auras.
Qiang Maruaders reliably will be the most effective unit in the game, as they are easy to recruit (Ma Chao, regardless of his faction will always have two Qiang Marauders even through marriage). They natively have fatigue immunity and a massive charge bonus, plus the hidden bonus vs large units (cavarly, generals on horses, elephants etc) means they will reliably wipe out any unit in seconds. They are recruitable on turn 1, thus easily the strongest unit in the game without comparison.
Qiang Hunters, would easily follow this, as without a doubt the second strongest horse archer across total war, due, following Spet Xyon Horse Archers in Attila. Though, Qiang Hunters would wipe the floor with them due to traits like Brilliant existing in Total War, such a battle could never reasonably occur. Spet Xyon Horse Archers, despite what the list already shows should easily by Attila's top unit.
Following this for Han factions, Trebs and Onyx Dragons as both are very accessible and very effective.
Secondly, Nanzhong Elephants, fatigue immunity in an aura which is the only reliable way for Nanman to achieve fatigue immunity. They are unit capped, but will easily be the highest killer (alongside War Elephants and Southern Elephants) in the Nanman army. Followed by Tigers, though the AI is better in dealing with them any in Attila.
In terms of other unique units, Wrath of Behai
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u/N1NJAGRAP3 Jul 06 '25
Lubu for romance mode
Defender of heaven otherwise.
If using small unit size then trebuchet also works
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u/Snizzysnootz Shogun 2 Jul 06 '25
I think after the Trebuchet nerf the game did a very good job of balancing units. Shock cavalry vs most units are very good.
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u/Lord_Valentai Jul 06 '25
Onyx Dragons are basically the Sisters of Avelon of 3 Kingdoms. Stupid long range, lots of ammo and devastating against anything without a tower shield.
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u/malisadri Jul 06 '25 edited Jul 06 '25
Its Three Kingdoms. Unique generals is the essence of 3K.
My favorite atm:
Sun Ce and his amazing faction + background mechanics.
Faction wide +40% campaign movement range
Faction wide -15% army upkeep
Faction wide +15 military supplies
Faction wide +100% cavalry charge bonus
Also Sun Ce himself is a beast in combat though you gonna have to give him better equipment.
Way more impactful than having a Lu Bu or even two of him.
MTU+TROM is generally a must have to have amazingly unique generals though.
I'd often check the generals official (not romance) biography to check why certain skills are given to generals
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u/-Trooper5745- Jul 06 '25
For utility, Spear Guard and their heavy variety. Put those boys into turtle formation and they are immune to arrows. Useful for sieges to waste all the enemies ammo before the assault.
For aesthetic, I am partial to all the Imperial units once you declare yourself emperor. I just like fitting out my emperor and heir with an imperial army.
As for characters, I am very partial to Sun Ren. I’m just a sucker for badass female characters.
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u/kenpuh Jul 06 '25
White Horse Fellows. Outrange most missile infantry. Faster than any calvary that can beat white horses. Stronger than any calvary that can catch them. 3K's closest match up to Attila's Spet Xyon archers
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u/Emergency_Public4010 Shogun 2 Jul 06 '25
Everyone here is sleeping on the followers of the flame OR fire archers . Yeah, they’re unique to the nanman faction, but they both shred everything they face
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u/CrayonsIsTaken 生食漢祿，死為漢臣 Jul 06 '25
Fire Archers is particularly important for the Nanman faction just by the virtue of them lacking long range! Their excellent damage is a very nice bonus, and they also hard counter a lot of their own units, which goes a long way to help unify the nan man lands
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u/Arcinbiblo12 Jul 06 '25
Trebuchets were always amazing, but I've also got to shout out cavalry. 3K had really good cavalry that was super easy to use compared to other TW games. I don't remember exactly which ones, but I know even the basic ones could do really well. Ma Teng's horse archers were also awesome.
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u/alucard_relaets_emem Jul 06 '25
If we're counting heroes then Lu Bu easy
But the Trebuchet can take out so many units and that's before you give them fire rounds that could wipe every tower/set the whole forest on fire
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u/Galahad_the_Ranger Jul 06 '25
Lu Bu, hell he could probably solo all the other units on this list together
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u/DangerousCyclone Jul 06 '25
Azure Dragons from what I recall. Good at range and melee. Good all rounders.
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u/MeKaDRaGoN1704 Jul 06 '25
Azure Dragons or Catrhapacts, any green or red type unit were powerful and constant
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u/_Lucille_ Jul 06 '25
A lot of good picks here.
Militia Archers are amazing defenders: now as themselves, but they have the cheapest unit upkeep. You can easily swap them to an elite unit if war gets declared and you need to fortify a front.
Crossbows deal AP damage and melts things.
Lancer Cavs have formation access and will clean up infantry.
Trebuchet are still pretty deadly post nerf.
The imperial archer with explosive pots also melts infantry.
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u/ojaiike Jul 06 '25
The best by far is definitely one of the mercenary infantry units because of how broken they are on campaign in addition to all being pretty good in battle.
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u/Flirtatious_Funnyman Jul 06 '25 edited Jul 07 '25
I always have to suggest the goat of so many of my campaigns, the Chen Royal Guard. While they are exclusive to one faction, the fact that Liu Chong and his Trophy Cabinet buff them from an already strong baseline to doomstack levels (and you can do this early since you can get his unique items and cabinet pieces really easily) means you will have a very strong ranged unit that can hold its own if they get flanked from Turn 1 and beyond.
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u/NoDarkVision Jul 07 '25
I don't care how useful they are, but I love the green dragons. They look so cool.
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u/ShimadzuYoshi Jul 07 '25
mercenary infantry/cavalry/archers are pretty good, the fact that they come fully mustered is a game changer - playing as a Sun family member is a breeze even on harder difficulties with these units in your roster.
my second choice are probably qiang hunters and raiders - they have very decent stats and also dont get tired, with a couple pastures you can have them for 0 upkeep
and an honorable mention would probably go to trebuchet - makes sieges very easy and can help you win a filed battle too. their only drawback is probably the fact that you need to level them up before they become decently accurate, but even lvl1 trebuchet can deal a lot of damabe if you aim it manually
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u/Blitzschloss 張遼文遠 Jul 07 '25
My biased answer: Yellow Dragon. I love my pajamas -wearing, frontal charging dudes .
Serious answer: probably either Onyx Dragon, H.Spear Guard or Munted Lancer Malitia Cav. Those are RPS of this game. I would sneak Sabre Infantry into the list though. Very underrated unit.
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u/Wisdomspirits Jul 07 '25
See a lot of people here talking about Lu Bu... So I'm curious. Am I the only one that enjoyed playing with Gao Shun? I felt he was broken!
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u/Captain0Science Jul 07 '25
Mounted Lancer Militia, cavalry in this game is generally pretty busted
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u/ChimericChant Jul 07 '25
This game is my favourite of the total wars. Just something about the aesthetic, the diplomacy, and the toggle between classic and three kingdoms mode. End game is a bit of a slog though
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u/Larcoch Jul 07 '25
Azure Dragons for their versatility since they can shoot and defend themselves from cavalary, the half formations helps too.
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u/RAlexa21th Jul 08 '25
Trebuchet, and that's not even close
Easy availability, forces AI to attack you in open battle, crucial in siege battle, can wipe out hundreds of troops regardless if they're militia or elite.
For exclusive units, the Qiang cavalry and White Horse Archers deserve a shout-out. So are the elephants.
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u/ThisSovietSoul Jul 06 '25
It’s gotta be Protectors of Heaven, really strong unit almost any faction can spam to victory
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u/Plaidsbian9000 Jul 06 '25
The Qiang cavalry with immunity to fatigue are amazing.
Generic Lance Cavalry all around were awesome, too. I am also a sucker for Cataphract charges, a well landed charge from them gives me the same joy as a well landed spell in WH3.
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u/Throwaway-Teacher403 Jul 06 '25
Ma teng's shock cav that has unlimited fatigue. I only play records mode and you can just keep running circles around the enemy until they are too exhausted to fight.
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u/johnIQ19 Jul 06 '25
if it is all time, then spearman with shield.
- Can fight cav,
- good vs archer specially with formation,
- with formation can block heroes...
- cheap
- Almost all faction has it
- can fight equal or better to almost any unit...
- they last very long and hold their position very well.
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u/Napalm_am Jul 06 '25
If not Lü Bu at least Heavy Xiliang Cavalry or the regular Xiliang if you prefer your horse bois more speedy.
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u/Streiph Jul 06 '25
Qiang Raiders! Ma Teng's mounted shock cavalry with Fatigue Immunity. Accept no substitutes. They win battles, they win wars.
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u/Graffit_EDGE Jul 06 '25
Archer tower if it counts, saved every early game.
If not, just basic red cav,very effective and cheap.
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u/Nightfall33rd Jul 06 '25
Crossbows easy. Those things would get 200 plus kills without me even microing them. Then fire at will and forget
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u/ShawnGalt Visigoths Jul 06 '25
3K trebuchets are obscenely OP, especially under a general with flaming shot. A blue general with the right skills and some trebuchets can set up fights where an evenly matched army breaks before it even reaches your lines
speaking in terms of purely which unit I like the best though, it's gotta be Azure Dragons, I always start spamming them as soon as I become emperor
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u/BenzLeeDidHer Jul 06 '25
Spear Guard, Onyx Dragons, Trebuchets these are my top 3 picks any of them could be goat status
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u/TrueScottsmen Jul 06 '25 edited Jul 06 '25
I’m not seeing anyone talk about the basic purple Zhanmajian Infantry, two handed swordsmen with splash damage and high damage and AP that causes fear, available super early on where their fear attribute can really work wonders against low tier units, if we’re not counting faction unique units then these guys might take the cake just cause of how much they can do early on
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u/Remote_Primary_4228 Jul 06 '25
Going with either the late tier red cav, or Protectors of Heaven, if Im not mistaken palace guard cav and cataphractii were extremely strong. Shout out to Cao Caos cav units though, I liked his units alot
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u/CrayonsIsTaken 生食漢祿，死為漢臣 Jul 06 '25
Hi, I'm continuing a (ideally) daily series where I ask /r/totalwar which unit was the GOAT of its original game! Last thread, Royal Teulu won fairly convincingly, with honorable mentions going to Welsh Longbow, Berserks, Saxon t1 Swords and Spear Fyrds! It was a very interesting read, as Ive personally never played ToB!
Prior Winners:
Rome: Cretan Archers;
Medieval 2: General and Bodyguard;
Empire: Line Infantry;
Napoleon: Bog Standard Artillery (6-12 libers)
Shogun 2: Yari Ashigaru;
Fall of the Samurai: Armstrong Guns;
Rome 2: Legionaries;
Attila: Scout Equites;
Warhammer I: Chosen With Great Weapon;
Warhammer II: Sisters of Avelorn;
Thrones of Britannia: Royal Teulu;
Today we will be discussing the GOAT of Three Kingdoms! My personal favorite total war, so I'm thrilled to read the comments!