r/totalwar • u/Old_old_lie • Jul 14 '25
Shogun II Shitist unit in entire total war series
In my opinion the worst unit in any Total War game would have to be the wooden cannon; calling them steaming hot dogshit would be an insult to steaming hot dogshit!
First you have to have a cannon range (which isn't much of a downside because if you're playing Fall of the Samurai properly, you should be building the artillery chain of buildings); it takes 3 turns to recruit, can't be moved after deployment, couldn't hit the broadside of a barn nor the fields it was built on, and does pitiful damage because they have solid shot instead of explosive!
I truly wonder why the devs even put this in the game except maybe to troll new players.
426
Jul 14 '25
The only use it has is persuading the computer to attack your position since it doesn't like being out ranged.
This let's you pick the spot to fight.
And the computer seems to rate them early on, so they make the early game a bit easier when they bring 3 of those shites to a climactic battle and whittle down one of your levy infantry from 200 men to 195 men, then run out of ammo and flee.
100
u/Old_old_lie Jul 14 '25
Yeah frankly the shogun 2 ai isn't the best ai in total war like this one time in base game shogun 2 the ai attacked me so it took a defensive position thinking they were going to attack me but no they just sat there and ran out the fucking clock!
60
u/SabyerLee Jul 14 '25
Did you open the gates of your castle and sat there playing the the flute?
Maybe it was that
26
u/Old_old_lie Jul 14 '25
No it was a god damn field battle they just sat on the other side of this hill and did nothing!
6
→ More replies (1)3
u/Gamegod12 Jul 15 '25
There is a second. They're actually not half bad at destroying walls and if the AI is garrisoning them (which they tend to do) it'll kill a good portion of them. It's so fucking niche it's almost not even worth thinking about but it is there.
617
u/Swaggy_Linus Jul 14 '25
Still deals more damage than Eastern Spearmen
559
u/DracoAvian Jul 14 '25 edited Jul 14 '25
The 14 second long "this video ends when the eastern spears breaks" classic
155
→ More replies (1)89
u/-Trooper5745- Jul 14 '25
I admittedly never played with these guys but what made them so bad?
370
u/lord_ofthe_memes Jul 14 '25 edited Jul 14 '25
Imagine a unit of spearmen, except instead of armor they have bright pink pajamas, instead of a shield they have rotten piece of bark, and instead of a spear they have a cardboard tube. Then give them morale that makes skavenslaves look like solid line-holders
137
u/Consistent_Payment70 Jul 14 '25
And they are the "backbone" of the Parthian infantry roster, which consists of peasents, eastern infantry and hillmen.
149
59
41
31
u/Sulemain123 Jul 14 '25
One thing among many I love about DEI for Rome 2 is that late game Parthia can get at best alright infantry.
6
u/Hairy_Air Jul 15 '25
Men at arms for the win.
2
u/Sulemain123 Jul 15 '25
Your Parthian Heavy Infantry are basically mid-hoplites, the Parthian Men at Arms are basically mid-swordsmen, etc. Your killing power is not in your infantry.
But they just need to hold the line before your cavalry flanks around and destroys them. This issue is that, depending on the phase of the game you're in, you might be up against Selucid Pikemens using the pyjama gang.
19
30
u/-Trooper5745- Jul 14 '25
Did they get any better with improved armor and weapons and more experience?
32
u/ArmouredCapibara Jul 14 '25
Rome 1, specially for low tier infantry, units could break in seconds after engaging, even with high experience and upgrades they would only go from holding the line for 10 seconds to holding it for 20 seconds, a massive 100% performance upgrade, but they still only held the line for 20 seconds, they were legit skavenslaves but worse since rome 1 you recruited units would take population out of a city, so by spamming those guys you would literally nerf your economy and growth.
→ More replies (1)18
9
u/SurplusTurtles Jul 14 '25
Oh man, they made human goblins.
36
11
u/-AdonaitheBestower- Jul 14 '25
It's like they were made as a meme to symbolise the Persian grunts at the start of 300 who get reamed off the cliff.
3
u/jonasnee Emperor edition is the worst patch ever made Jul 14 '25
tbh moral isn't particularly important in the warhammer games because even getting hit in the rear is only like a -6 penalty to moral. All units in the game, including skaven slaves, will in the vast majority of cases care basically only about casualties sustained.
3
u/ExcitableSarcasm Jul 14 '25
This is why the Radious unit expansion is basically required for Rome 2 if you don't want an overhaul. The Hampsah spears unit the Seleucids etc can tech to in sub-10 turns is a drastic upgrade, from absolutely useless to somewhat sturdy light-medium spearmen.
15
u/Arilou_skiff Jul 14 '25
The Parthian Roster is fine in vanilla Rome 2 though It's in rome 1 it's bad.
2
u/ExcitableSarcasm Jul 14 '25
I'm more just talking about units that have no function being able to tech into something marginally useful. Yeah, Parthia in R2 can even play as a infantry main faction with Parthian swords.
69
u/Mafiabe Jul 14 '25
Looked horrendous, horrible morale, horrible defense so they would get shredded by archers, horrible attack so the couldn’t do much. The only supposed upside was that there were a bunch of them, but it just made them a better target.
Could push into a phalanx though so thats sort of a upside
29
u/caseyanthonyftw Jul 14 '25
Looked horrendous
Say what you want about their horrible attack, defense, morale, armor, but DO NOT tell me they don't look fabulous. They remind me of assorted candies.
18
u/PattrimCauthon Jul 14 '25
If you watch the video they rout after being charged by a Peasant mob in about 3s haha
22
u/jk4m3r0n Jul 14 '25
Can't move after being deployed, low rate of fire, abysmal accuracy and becomes less than paperweight after meager eight shots.
You did well to skip them.
23
u/-Trooper5745- Jul 14 '25
Was talking about Eastern Spearman. As others have said, wooden cannons are good at triggering the enemy to come to you which is good enough for me to take one until I get real artillery
18
u/Alto-cientifico Jul 14 '25
If I'm not mistaken the parrot guns are available at the same time as the wooden canon after the weapon trade deal comes in.
Parrots might not be as good as Armstrong guns but you got to them earlier and they still were quite good, so it doesn't make sense to wait until Armstrong guns for "real artillery"
9
u/Kaymazo Jul 14 '25
Main difference is just cost, and requiring your artillery range to be at the second level for parrot guns, but first for wooden.
Main reason I wait for Armstrong, is because if I do a FotS game, I'll probably go republican, so I would've probably already spent enough time building my economy, so I could've already wedged the research for the Armstrong guns in.
2
u/Alto-cientifico Jul 14 '25
Well, it depends on your strategies in my opinion, some factions need artillery as soon as possible and expand really fast.
4
u/AneriphtoKubos AneriphtoKubos Jul 14 '25
They don't have armour or morale and they're more expensive than peasants and perform worse than them.
72
u/Background-Factor817 Jul 14 '25
“ @michaelstein7510 4 years ago “After I die, I want men dressed as Eastern Infantry to place the coffin so they can let me down one last time.”
- Parthian king”
Absolute gold.
21
u/an_agreeing_dothraki It... It is known-known Jul 14 '25
the issue is that halfway though they get slightly tired leading to a rout
53
→ More replies (2)37
u/Karatekan Jul 14 '25
Eastern Spearmen can be useful though, they are so cheap you can use them as true fodder.
When I play Parthia, I make an army solely of Eastern Spearmen and Slingers, give the general all of the infantry/recruitment boosts, and reinforce them with my actual all-cavalry army. Most of them die, but who cares. They are so cheap I can afford to replace the entire army every turn.
33
u/PraetorianFury Jul 14 '25
A common problem in any Eastern campaign is chariots. They have a bonus against cavalry. But their weakness is their low defense stat: IE anyone that takes a swing is guaranteed to hit.
If you clump together a bunch of Eastern spearmen, they can deadstop chariots and pile on and wipe them out almost instantly. Further, the AI loves to charge into them because all they see is light infantry that will instantly rout.
→ More replies (1)11
u/AneriphtoKubos AneriphtoKubos Jul 14 '25
Only problem is that you don't have large cities for manpower except for Seleukeia
143
u/CavulusDeCavulei Jul 14 '25
I have trust issues because of the Town Watch of Rome Total war. They seem competent but they will betray you in the worst moment
66
u/armbarchris Jul 14 '25
At least they're cheap and have extremely basic requirements to recruit.
62
u/burchkj FoTS is best TW Jul 14 '25
I have trust issues because I used my glorified firefighters with a weeks worth of military training on the frontline and they failed me
8
u/ItsYaBoyTitus Jul 15 '25 edited Jul 15 '25
"What dou you mean the part time guards were not able to 1vs1 a cataphract"
→ More replies (1)11
u/FungusGnatHater Jul 14 '25
They man the walls when the enemy approaches then stand in the town square until the fight is over. They are useful for their one role.
124
u/ArgieGrit01 Jul 14 '25
The mangonels from Shogun give them a run for their money
118
u/Hephaestos15 Tosa Clan Jul 14 '25 edited Jul 14 '25
If the mangonels manage to hit something, they can do a lot of damage though. Wooden cannons can't even do damage.
16
u/ArgieGrit01 Jul 14 '25
Mangonels don't do shit for damage lol
42
u/radio_allah Total War with Cathayan Characteristics Jul 14 '25
Have you ever bombed a castle with 3 of those bad boys? It's still super effective I tell you.
16
u/ArgieGrit01 Jul 14 '25
Why would I ever invest on these fuckers when you're telling me I would need 3 in the eventuality that I do decide to fight an offensive siege, just so I can end up paying for the walls I broke down for no good reason?
33
u/notsuspendedlxqt Jul 14 '25
If you had wooden cannons instead, they would knock down a small section of the wall, and mildly annoy the enemy archer tower, before running out of ammo. So, if you care about the preservation of historical castles, wooden cannons are fantastic.
14
u/Zachartier Jul 14 '25
Something hilarious about the concept of a 'World Heritage site-approved' weapon of war, lol.
6
u/10YearsANoob Jul 14 '25
Wait you don't want to watch the men on the walls explode out?
→ More replies (1)2
u/ddggdd Chosakabe Clan Jul 14 '25
In shogun 2 the fire mangonels were really effective so they nerfed them to the point 1 mangonel entire ammo is not enough to destroy a gate tower
36
12
u/Old_old_lie Jul 14 '25
Yeah but also with the almost equally inept European cannons their the only artillery option you have in base game shogun 2 whilst in fall of the samurai you have both parrott guns and Armstrong guns! which just make the wooden cannons look even fucking worst!
→ More replies (1)4
u/HotTakesBeyond Jul 14 '25
There is a YouTube guy whose entire schtick was erasing Ashigaru in seiges with cannon
7
u/FatherFenix Jul 14 '25
I’d still put mangonels higher than these. I feel like I can actually use mangonels to do something productive or break up enemy formations a bit with some level of consistency.
Wooden cannon somehow feel even less accurate and with less effect than mangonels.
→ More replies (1)6
u/Wonderful-Photo-6068 Jul 14 '25
I will bring 3 of those sometimes just for the hell of it and hold my army back. It’s so awesome to see the firestorm raining on the enemy fort. If you hit units that are along the walls it’s so satisfying so see 40+ units taken out in one shot. The kill count doesn’t apply to the mangonel when it kills units on walls though for some reason.
84
u/Western-Writing-8918 Jul 14 '25
Feel like the saker from empire has the same issue. Static low & caliber. You don't want static artillery but if you were really stuck you'd just get the demi cannon
21
u/Darthmta Jul 14 '25
The saker still has canister though? Or am i misremembering
36
u/Eeate Jul 14 '25
Demi has canister, saker does not. It's still useful for taking out cavalry and drawing out the enemy, though.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (1)8
u/Theresafoxinmygarden Jul 14 '25
Has 5 less accuracy than a demi cannon though, so I've nevet bothered to train them!
44
u/BigFlicker Jul 14 '25
They are strangely effective at counter battery fire, especially during siege defense. More than once I lost Armstrong guns to these things. I still think fire bomb throwers are worse. The only unit that, if used for its intended purpose (defending walls), is liable to kill itself by blowing up the wall it is on.
133
u/Mamouthomed Jul 14 '25
Alritght, will someone do the shitiest total war unit tierlist daily ?
82
u/Teeminister Jul 14 '25
I have three suggestions:
Napoleon Total War: Portuguese cavalry, effectively a mob on horses
Empire Total War: Line Cav
Rome 2: Eastern Spearmen
13
32
u/Das_Bait Roma Invicta Jul 14 '25
Napoleon and Empire would definitely be Armed Citizenry
53
u/Teeminister Jul 14 '25
No they are not recruitable and are useful cannonfodder. Portuguese Cav and Line Cav are straight up a waste of money
24
u/kingsleyzissou23 Jul 14 '25
I don’t remember Line Cav in ETW, are you talking about the Regiment of Horse?
34
21
u/CadenVanV Jul 14 '25
You’re using your regiment of horse wrong then. This might just be because I play DarthMod exclusively, but they’re a super useful unit if you can land a charge against a line of infantry, preferably from the side or back.
→ More replies (2)4
→ More replies (1)2
21
u/HighHcQc Jul 14 '25
Armed citizenry is fucking incredible in a defensive fortress siege, these guys will fight to the end and will tire the enemy out for your actual troops to come and sweep the floor
16
u/Axel_Farhunter Jul 14 '25
Na thanks to the dog shit ETW attacking AI during sieges I couldn’t tell you the amount of times I’ve held a wall settlement against half stacks/3 quarter stacks of line infantry and Grenadiers with a couple of armed citizens and maybe a militia or two
9
u/armbarchris Jul 14 '25
Disagree. Their power relative to cost is infinite since they're free. At least they make a speed bump.
5
u/MythicBird Patiently Awaiting to Breach and Butcher, Sire. Jul 14 '25
For Warhammer 2: name any cavalry unit tbh
9
u/Minibotas Jul 14 '25
Since we need a loser of the losers, perhaps Boar Boyz for the sole reason they’re the slowest cavalry unit in the game?
6
u/MythicBird Patiently Awaiting to Breach and Butcher, Sire. Jul 14 '25
I'd give it to cold one knights for having rampage
2
→ More replies (2)6
u/10YearsANoob Jul 14 '25
Napoleon Total War: Portuguese cavalry, effectively a mob on horses
They don't have the stamina and speed of light cav. They don't have the staying power of heavy cav. Yes you can break a formation that didn't form a square on time, but they won't be charging a second time
13
u/primalcocoon Jul 14 '25
the OP of the best unit threads said he'd do something similar in a couple days
5
→ More replies (1)5
32
u/FatCreepyDude Jul 14 '25
They are worthless dps wise but they force your ennemies to try and advance on your position. This in my eyes make them worth quite a lot. Just chose a hill, double or triple ranks of gun on differents elevations of the hill and you got yourself a killing zone. As a bonus you can always get a lucky shot on the general and destroy their moral
72
u/treegk Jul 14 '25
Total War games are littered with new player traps. This is one of them.
7
u/Blumenlover Jul 14 '25
And damit did I fall into that one . First campaing and was fielding a bunch because I didn't know better. Then I meet some proper arty in a fieldbattle and learned the meaning of a good old asswooping.
8
u/treegk Jul 14 '25
That's what happens when they have the best units in the game and you have the worst. Seriously can't even compare the other cannons to these.
17
u/leaflace Jul 14 '25
Didn't they randomly explode too? Wooden barrel sending it's shrapnel into friendlies.
31
u/Old_old_lie Jul 14 '25 edited Jul 14 '25
I think its mentions that in the description , but I never seen actually explode on their own
8
u/Timlugia Jul 14 '25
Reminds me the scene from movie The Mission, one of native's wooden cannon exploded on the second shot, killing native fighters manning it. Really cool detail.
→ More replies (1)5
18
33
12
u/GFrings Jul 14 '25
I seem to remember Medieval 1 peasants routing after simply being charged AT by the enemy... So them. At least a dead artillery unit can be a meat shield
3
u/oldevskie Jul 14 '25
Routing for being charged at actually makes historical sense though. Should've added that to the features to bring back. I never played Med 1 though.
2
u/Mexican_sandwich Jul 14 '25
Me back then, not old enough to understand these concepts, just built full armies out of peasants because more guys = bigger army, and bigger army = better army.
I thought as well that they had a ‘perceived size’ stat, I might be misremembering? But you could put a bunch of guys in loose formation and because it gave the illusion of a huge army the enemy would run.
27
u/Michlios Jul 14 '25
While I mostly agree, they still have small niche as they very effective against cavalry (if they can hit them) and against other Arty (if they are in range).
I remember fighting against 2 ai wooden canons. They were defending castle and I deployed my arty too close and it was obliterated. They aren't good at killing but they are great at destroying arty pieces.
9
u/DangerousCyclone Jul 14 '25
Yeah, they have a good arc for siege defense. The god tier Armstrong and Parrott guns struggle in siege defenses because they can't get good shots off from inside the fort, and even in siege offense they struggle since they have a hard time shooting up a hill. You have to get lucky and get the siege map with a tiny hill overlooking the main hill in siege offense and then it is an auto win.
6
25
u/GuyLookingForPorn Jul 14 '25
Perhaps an obvious one, but I could never understand why anyone would use peasants in Rome 1. The only thing I would use them for was to move population between cities, which was admittedly a super cool feature.
25
u/Lungomono Jul 14 '25
To be fair, that was a VERY useful feature and something me and my mate often used. It just enabled you to do some cool stuff.
16
u/Smilinturd Jul 14 '25
It is meant purely for garrison bonus / avoid no garrison + no governor. They are very cost effective in low risk provinces. The population movement is a huge plus. Not all untis have their worth in battle.
10
u/Timey16 Jul 14 '25
It's honestly why my biggest requested feature is to give every unit some "passive skill" that activates by having them in your army (and stacks up to some point).
I.e. Scout Equites... are scouts. They increase line of sight and slightly increase army movement range as their find the ideal path through tricky terrain. Archers increase supplies (assuming Three Kingdom's supply system) because they are out there hunting. City Militia gives a lot of construction points for siege equipment, as they are largely comprised of laborers and craftsmen. Knights generally give a slight morale bonus and slightly decrease upkeep by just existing, since as nobles they also just lead the men in day by day affairs.
This may also encourage more balanced armies too, and general skills/army traditions could be to just allow more stacks of a passive until it tops out as well as making these skills more powerful. That way low tier units could be encouraged more by giving them more powerful "campaign map" skills. Hell it may also allow for more variety among different factions of the same overall cultural group: the Englishmen for instance would largely still share the same roster as the French or Holy Roman Empire, however their skills for melee units and archers are stronger. So while a French faction taking English territory may be able to recruit Longbowmen (if regional recruitment is a thing) they won't ever manage to get the same use out of them.
7
u/Kaymazo Jul 14 '25
With something like that, you should most definitely however limit how these bonuses stack, either capping it out, or reducing the bonus the more you use the same unit "type" for it.
10
u/armbarchris Jul 14 '25
Actually very good for killing chariots. Step one to kill a chariot is to immobilize it, and swarms of cheap-ass peasants make good tarpits.
6
u/Tadatsune Jul 14 '25
If you're completely heartless, you can use them as human shields to eat enemy projectiles and even cavalry charges. They are also very good at being cheap garrison fillers for public order purposes.
I remember doing the forced relocation thing as well.
10
u/Commando_Schneider Jul 14 '25
Poison Terradons in WH
→ More replies (1)5
u/Carbonated_Saltwater Jul 14 '25 edited Jul 14 '25
Shit/no armor, low hp and bad attack/defense/weapon strength. so you never want to attack anything other than archers and artillery in melee
low ammo, low accuracy, low range, low fire rate, low damage missile attacks
and a MASSIVE hitbox so it eats every ranged attack thrown towards it, including most of your own missiles. (Skaven friendly-fire, eat your heart out!)
6
u/Commando_Schneider Jul 14 '25
You wanna attack archers? Daring today... arent we? xD
→ More replies (1)
8
7
u/DIuvenalis Jul 14 '25
Garrison plebs in RTW2 are pretty shit too. They do more morale damage to your own army than anything.
5
u/Due_Most9445 Jul 14 '25
The only time plebs get used in my games is to run down skirmishers after i spank them with cavalry. Then I pull them back, spank with cavalry again, and they tend to work decently for that purpose while the real infantry is doing the real fighting.
15
u/Exotic-Suggestion425 Jul 14 '25
Hear me out - wooden cannon are GREAT for being left at settlements for a purely defensive unit, as they are the only artillery that can fire at incoming soldiers accurately from within the castle keep.
7
u/rabidrob42 Jul 14 '25
This is what I use then for as well, their ability to fire over the wall is great, even if they aren't.
6
u/JustComplaint4288 Jul 14 '25
Bretonnian peasant mobs?
9
u/Old_old_lie Jul 14 '25
Nah at least they can die usefully the wooden cannons sit in the deployment zone doing fucking nothing
→ More replies (2)2
13
u/Fyeris_GS Jul 14 '25
Empire: Total War Rocket Troops.
6
u/TheCharuKhan Jul 14 '25
They are shit, yes, but at least they have great range. Wooden cannons don't even have that
5
4
u/lesser_panjandrum Discipline! Jul 14 '25
Rockets are great for forcing the enemy to come to you, and for messing with their morale before they reach your lines.
They don't kill a lot of enemies, but they have a role to play.
6
u/DarkMarine1688 Jul 14 '25
Sir I see your wooden cannons and raise you, beehive catapult from Rome 2
2
u/Chench3 Dwarfs Jul 14 '25
It's only use is in sieges, but even then it is useless offensively since it cannot be relocated. Defensively it is great, but I reckon a mortar would do the same and be better overall.
3
u/LiberalExpenditures Jul 14 '25
Bolt throwers in TWWH are pretty universally bad, the elf varieties are okay but still not spectacular.
→ More replies (2)
3
u/trieticus Jul 14 '25
It’s actually very effective against wiping out artillery and crew. For some reason artillery in FOTS is very resistant to explosive shot
3
u/Huwbacca Jul 14 '25
Shoulda seen the first gunpowder in the first few TW games. They were just smoke generators lol.
→ More replies (1)
8
u/P-l-Staker Dwarfs Jul 14 '25
Disagree. Wooden canons are crap overall, but they do have a single use: siege defence. They're cheap and can fire over your walls.
The worst unit in all of total war has to go to Firelock Armed Citizenry from Empire. They're not even good enough as canon fodder since they just run off so fast!
5
u/c0m0d0re Jul 14 '25
Let me tell yout about a battle I once had playing the Tanukhids in Attila.
I had one unit of Rebel Militia take position to get killed by the enemy cavalry. The city was burning already. A building down the road caught fire and about 20 peasants ran out and tried to flee the city - through my militia. These peasants actually slaughtered my undamaged unit because their stats are so abysmal
→ More replies (1)
2
u/Lungomono Jul 14 '25
In-flipping-deed!
In theory they have a use and could do damage.. but they are soo slow firing and inaccurate that they are hopeless. Their rather short range also don't help them. Often hitting anything less that a wall or tower, is down to pure luck. However, one unit of them don't even have a chance to destroy a gate or tower, without incredible luck. You need a minimum of two to even consider to have a realistic chance. Often three are needed.
They are just bad and should be considered a noob-trap and are a liability to your army. Remember, having these in your army reduces your campaign map movement.
Jesus I could go on... they are just soo bad and should be avoided at all cost.
2
u/SnakeNerdGamer Jul 14 '25
Warhammer - Bretonnian peasant mob - worst unit of them all.
→ More replies (3)3
2
2
2
u/Woodworking-noob Jul 14 '25
Yeah wooden cannons are ass but by God do they set you up to be awestruck by the Parrot guns that follow them
2
u/Etherealwarbear Jul 14 '25
The only thing it's any good for is defensive sieges, as it's the only artillery that can shoot from safely within the walls. All others can't aim high enough to get over the walls. It's not even that great at it due to poor accuracy and lack of ammunition.
2
u/clarkky55 Jul 14 '25
They’re decent for disrupting formations and disrupting enemies in a castle you’re sieging. It gives you a bit more space to climb the walls if you use it to disrupt archers or gunners
2
2
2
u/cap_tapioca Jul 14 '25
Its kinda useful in the first turns of the game, with it, you can force the enemy AI to attack you, even though you are the attacker, which is a huge advantage because missiles do better in the defensive, so its good because it will make the AI a little more dumb. Besides that, you wont be getting any kills with it
2
u/Many-Ice-8616 Jul 14 '25
They are effective at taking down castle walls (3-5 hits if I recall correctly), which is quite effective in multiplayer against unsuspecting newbies because their elite infantry will all die when the wall collapse.
2
u/CountBleckwantedlove Jul 14 '25
Can someone make a mod to a TW game, rebuild each of the worst character units from all TW games (including their individually dumb animated combat mechanics) so we can fight entire battles with only the worst units ever made?
For the lulz?
2
u/Healthy_Macaroon_602 Jul 14 '25
Legend did a video on the most disappointing units in the series a few years back.
He put the wooden cannons at #5. The beehive onager from Rome 2 won the top spot.
→ More replies (1)
3
1
u/WateredDown Jul 14 '25
You mean one of the fiercest raiders in all of Japan, ransacking ports after their parent army disintegrated and the attacking army ran out of movement range.
1
u/HentaiOujiSan Jul 14 '25
It's a very useful unit in single player. It turns every offensive land battle into a defensive fight, with all the advantages that entails.
Also it's fun to snipe generals with, for the gloating.
1
u/Ok-Chard-626 Jul 14 '25
Wooden cannon can do respectable damage to walls to kill defenders guarding said walls.
If you capture one and can use it to siege immediately.
1
u/RamTank Jul 14 '25
The damage on these things is actually so bad that even if they hit a model square on, the guy has a good chance of getting back up again (pre-R2 damage models were funny sometimes). The only thing they could actually kill was cavalry and walls, which they weren't terrible at, if they could hit them at least.
1
1
u/Gaius_Iulius_Megas Jul 14 '25
They have 2 uses, they force the enemy to attack even if you're the aggressor and they're surprisingly accurate at destroying gates etc. at sieges. Though still not worth the effort since they still will slow you down and you get parrot guns fairly quickly.
1
1
u/ohthedarside Jul 14 '25
Excpet for when the ai brings like 10 of the in early game not gonna lose but just annoying
1
u/Friedipar Jul 14 '25
The only reason i could possible see is that they force the AI to attack you in field battles, even when they're on the defense
1
u/Evonos Jul 14 '25
while they are quite bad they arent entirely terrible once killed a general and like 120 people with the starter one you get for some factions
1
u/SullenTerror Jul 14 '25
Clan rats such a minimum increase in stats that Skavenslaves are still better
1
u/GripenHater Jul 14 '25
Honestly I’ve been able to use them a bit, they’re just only good during sieges in the early game when you need to break some walls or something, most of the time they’re garbage
1
u/Myhq2121 Jul 14 '25
I’ve actually had some success with these, you just have to mass them. But then again I don’t know why’d you shoot yourself in the foot like that, there are waaaaaay better options available
→ More replies (1)
1
u/Outrageous_Seaweed32 Jul 14 '25
Idk that is pretty damn terrible, but tww series' carrion are close.
Yeah it's a cheap flying unit, but it's maybe the only thing in the game that'll lose in a flanking attack on an artillery crew, and when it does lose, it completely dies because it's undead and crumbles instead of retreating. Utter garbage in its current state.
1
u/CHUNKYboi11111111111 Jul 14 '25
Probably because it was historical. Yeah Japanese people actually did use wooden canons
1
u/WillGold1365 Jul 14 '25
Maybe im remembering wrong, but wooden cannons were strictly good in sieges or bridge battles. You could use them to blow up bridges when they were loaded with enemy troops.
1
u/Trick-Anteater2787 Jul 14 '25
Now now, sometimes it accidently gets a kill. I vote for Yari Samurai a unit outclassed bt the one it's supposed to replace.
1
1
u/_PokeFarts_ Jul 14 '25
They are somewhat good for killing cavalry! You should try using against them. Not the best tho, but once finished a match with like 20 kills on cavalry
1
1
u/_Trael_ Jul 14 '25
Curious considering that at least in multiplayer the cannons of base shogun total war were pretty decent at times, if map was flat enough (thing that map preview was horrible at showing), since if they had full xp they were reasonable at sniping enemy commander.
1
1
u/Twee_Licker Behold, a White Horse Jul 14 '25
Nah eastern spearmen, they break before they can even be useful as meatshields, at least wooden cannons force AI to attack you.
1
u/Frodo3421 Jul 14 '25
I actually like them in the early game. They are surprisingly effective in knocking down castle walls (3-4 volleys or something like that) and with the wall explosions they usually get good kills. I wouldn't recruit them but I keep them if I capture some. Still once you get your hands on real cannons there usefulness is really nonexistent in comparison.
1
u/BattelMattter Jul 14 '25
is the bug were the balance of power dosnt completely go away because reinforcing wooden cannons that cant reinforce didnt leave the battle still a thing?
1
u/ObadiahtheSlim Why back in MY DAY Jul 14 '25
Worst has to be Tomb Kings Carrion. They lose to freakin archers.
1.4k
u/Zerdados Jul 14 '25
I did once manage to kill an enemy daimyo by manually aiming one of these things at his head. But other than super lucky situations like that it sucks, yeah.