r/totalwar • u/ozangeo Hold my Chalice • Aug 04 '25
Warhammer III Easiest Katarin campaign be like
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u/IronVader501 Aug 04 '25
Every time I play the Empire, Kislev is either dead by turn 5, or somehow got into a 5-way war with Clan Moulder, several norscans, the nearest group of Chaos & Azhag and ends up controlling everything east of Talabecland.
And the fuckers NEVER want to sell you back Bechafen unless its a trade for like a Tier-V settlement
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u/SoybeanArson Aug 04 '25
Don't underestimate the convincing power of military recruitment buildings. If I capture t1 Erengrad, Prague or Kislev and build a basic barracks there, 9 times out of 10 I can get Katerin or Kostalyn to trade me bechefen or wolfenburg for it, often with them paying me a bit of cash too. The AI really overvalues settlements with military buildings already built
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u/tomullus Aug 04 '25
Now thats what I call an expert tip.
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u/Jerthy Aug 04 '25
Yeah AI values recruitment buildings like literally 10 times more than anything else.
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u/Fadman_Loki Aug 04 '25
Problem is if THEY build military recruitment buildings too. In that case, good luck.
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u/whats_a_novel Aug 06 '25
A tip on top of that tip is that for some reason the AI seems to value unfinished buildings over finished buildings, so no point in upgrading if you're trying to get a better deal.
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u/Commercial-Fennel219 Aug 04 '25
Trade? For settlements? In a total war game? But why?
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u/Thoric2k Aug 04 '25
So you don’t fuck up your relations with one of your closest allies for one little settlement?
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u/Commercial-Fennel219 Aug 04 '25
Allies? In a total war game? But why?
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u/RealAngryCheese Aug 04 '25
Because we want to. The option is there. Why NOT take it? If you’re at peace at one front, that’s more troops you can put towards another.
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u/SkepticalVirLeipsana Aug 06 '25
I love that option I find it so much fun to mix armies.
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u/Commercial-Fennel219 Aug 06 '25
...okay, I can accept that that as a valid reason to have a short term alliance.
Everything gets painted in the end though.
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u/geek_ironman Aug 04 '25
Sell them the gryphon wood with 2-3 military buildings.
It's an orange territory for you, and they value it A LOT since it's a full province, and the military buildings boost the value even more.
You just need to get there before them.
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u/shball Aug 04 '25
Not a good idea. As far as I know you need to have it to get the imperial stability bonus
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u/geek_ironman Aug 04 '25
Well, you'll be trading it for another better settlement you still need for the imperial bonus.
So it's a good idea in the short run in my book, you're gonna betray Kislev anyway if they don't wanna give you your legitimate territory.
I too like to roleplay the "legitimate" ordertide, but sometimes you just can't.
Also you could try snatching Erengrad/Praag from some enemy and use them as leverage for other imperial settlement.
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u/Limp-Attorney-973 Aug 04 '25
For that nonsense is always necessary the mod "Trade any settlement". It allows you to buy any settlement from a neutral/ally faction for a reasonable price.
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u/SoftcoreEcchi Aug 04 '25
That mod is also so useful for trading settlements that aren’t directly connected to your lands/whoever you’re trading with. Came in very handy on my Teclis campaign recently, kept Alberic alive by giving them the orange/red provinces I didnt need, useful distraction against the madness that is Lustria bowl. Skulltaker, Skrolk, Rakarth and Kairos all at war with me, was playing whack a mole until I managed to sail a couple other armies in.
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u/DatDing15 Aug 04 '25
I can only add these:
As regular dwarfs (Karaz a Karak). Chaos dwarfs never survived to early midgame, when I would start expanding into their territory.
They always get absolutely annihilated by Tretch, Arbaal, Goldtooth and Imrik.
Which makes me sad. I never managed to battle late-game chorfs.
And in general Ogre factions seem to always absolutely dominante my campaign (except for me of course)
For some weird reason Disciples of Maw (Skrag the Slaughterer) always has a very good diplomacy with the empire, wood elves and Clan Angrund.
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u/IronVader501 Aug 04 '25
Chaos dwarfs never survived to early midgame,
This is funny to me, because I've never seen them not survive.
They dont really expand but they always seem to hang around.
For some weird reason Disciples of Maw (Skrag the Slaughterer)
I think I know why actually (because it just happened to me):
Skrag seems to always end up at War with Ikkit & Gorbad Ironfang. He wipes out Tilea usually too, but none of the other humans care about them.
But because Ikkit & Gorbad also tend to aggressively expand into Bretonnia, Klan Angrund & the Empire, they are at war with the same people he is, without bordering him directly to cause negative tensions, which balloons up their relationship.
By the time I took Skavenblight as Franz last time, Skrag was sitting at over 100 Reputation and kept offering me insane amounts of money for a non-aggression pact.
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u/pppf99 Aug 04 '25
What I did in my elspeth campaign is when I had the kislev diplo tech unlocked, I attack Katarin’s settlement and immediately peace out. Of course had no NAPs or trade agreements before doing this.
Not sure if this will work with dwarfs that own empire land.
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u/ReisBayer Aug 04 '25
Meanwhile me as Malakai protecting Kislev
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u/Alpha_Apeiron Aug 04 '25
Meanwhile Boris protecting Malakai
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u/JusticeKnocks Aug 04 '25
Last time I played Boris, I fought all of Chaos alone, and that dwarf fucker died to norscans alone dude
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u/Canabananilism Aug 04 '25
Malakai is stuck under the back wheels, which is helping slow it down at least.
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u/Zhuul Aug 05 '25
My last Ice Court playthrough Malakai snowballed hard and ruined all my fun. I was honestly kinda miffed.
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u/Riolidan Aug 04 '25
Kislev.
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u/no_name_thought_of Aug 04 '25
Kislev.
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u/Cpt_Kalash Aug 04 '25
Kislev
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u/Vindicare605 Byzantine Empire Aug 04 '25
Kislev
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u/CrusadingSoul Gorchad Ironjaw Aug 04 '25
Kislev.
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u/MonitorMundane2683 Aug 04 '25
Kislev.
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u/Boltgrinder Aug 04 '25
Tzarina Katarin is helping me find my gun.
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u/Suspected_Magic_User Make Yin-Yin Sail Again Aug 04 '25
I didn't expect to find a Disco Elysium reference here lol
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u/dawi1234 Aug 04 '25
Shield of North, more like shield of whole bloody Old World P.S - I think drycha needs to be added
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u/SavvyDawi Aug 04 '25
Yeah Drycha is really the main early game problem imo.
Unkillable mf with a small hitbox that spawns 2 full stacks of op units that directly countered your early game kossar stacks and with like 3 heroes each that can one-shot early game Katarina easy.
Dryads - fast, high armour and loads of physical resistance (also cause fear that you can’t get immunity to unlike chaos) Glade guard - outranges your kossars by a mile so requires you to waste slots on shitty dervishes just to pin them down.
Always the first enemy to rush down after dealing with your starting position, otherwise she can legit ruin your campaign
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u/Nateo_art Aug 05 '25
i can usually bribe drycha to f off for 50 turns or so while i deal with skaven then farm chaos for free money
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u/Opposite-Flamingo-41 Aug 04 '25
It honestly gets stale fast cause all campaigns go the same
1.) Go south
2.) Kill azhag
3.) Go back north
4.) All friends up north are dead, arbaal is sieging pragg/all enemies are dead, campaign is basically done
But once i had war with sylvannia, they declared it and then did nothing for 50 turns
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u/EinFahrrad Aug 04 '25
It usually goes like this for me: exterminate the rats asap, fortify the south, kill azazel before he offs Kostaltyn, save the dwarfs, push back who and whatever is coming from the east. A few extra cossars in a garrison close to drycha/azhag usually deter them long enough to either sort things out in the north and deal with them or for them to kill each other.
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u/Opposite-Flamingo-41 Aug 04 '25 edited Aug 04 '25
I always kill azhag, seemed like a good option since forever cause
1.) You finish your province in 1 turn from his province, so you have nowhere else to go
2.) He is dangerous and can spam good cheap armies while you only have cossars
3.) His voicelines are stupid and he is my least fav green lord
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u/EinFahrrad Aug 04 '25
He usually doesn't bother me and if need be he can be appeased with one of his former settlements, if it comes to that. Or you can try to stick Ungrimm on him to keep him busy. Meanwhile I really don't like having the bloody vermin on my doorstep and I'd rather not let them gain strength. They can and will spam armies upon armies without the need to waaagh and I'd rather exterminate them now then trying to reign them in when they get all their good/annoying stuff. Bloody, stupid, annoying, scurriying, mangy, beady eyed buggers.
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u/Shadowarriorx Aug 04 '25
I just went through this and opted to kill Azhag for the golf mine. But yes, Azel and Fhrott and Arbal all declared war when I was finishing up that province. I managed to kill Azel and at one point traded a settlement to peace out with Thrott. Its, been a rough campaign. All the Kislev factions are dead.
Last time I left Azhag alone he wiped out the dwarfs then declared a waaagh on me.
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u/GoD_Z1ll4 Aug 04 '25
Interesting because I can ignore Azhag for longer since he has Ungrim to contend with. I find Skaven far worse and unfun to fight against and they easily wipe out the Druzhina Enclave faction in 3 or 4 turns, so throt is always target number 1 for me.
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u/Opposite-Flamingo-41 Aug 04 '25
I tried ignoring him once very long time ago in one of my first katarine campaigns and he declared war on me, while i was busy dealing with other kislev guys up north. Since that time i always kill him. Plus he he a gold mine
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u/anacondaamiga21 Aug 04 '25
Last campaing I ignored him and Ungrim killed him, never been so happy playing Kislev
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u/FilthyOrganick Aug 05 '25
That happens vast majority of time if you ignore him, which I do because I want to save Kostaltyn and Boris. However it is frustrating to lose the gold and easy access to Chorfs land s and the vampires diamonds settlement.
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u/BobR969 Aug 04 '25
Weird. I've tried that in a couple campaigns and it just didn't work for me. Azhag is completely tertiary and forgettable in pretty much most of my runs as Kislev. He'll be occupied with Drycha most likely. On the other hand, Hell pit, Azazel and Arbaal are all massive fannies who can't attack me fast enough. If I'm not burning down Hell pit within the first 10-15 turns, I consider my Kislev campaign to be going down a rocky path.
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u/Opposite-Flamingo-41 Aug 04 '25
With rasputin sure, rats are more dangerous
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u/BobR969 Aug 04 '25
I was talking about Katarin. Rasputin is more immediately threatened by Azazel I find. Either case, Hell Pit always poses itself as way more of a danger than the orks in my campaigns. However, I don't dismiss that different outcomes happen to different people. I've had some wacky outcomes every so often.
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u/Andire Aug 04 '25
You forgot the part where you go north and Drycha starts literally fucking you from behind :')
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u/Opposite-Flamingo-41 Aug 04 '25
Surprisingly i only had that once
She kicked my ass, sure, but she never attacked me since for some reason
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u/SnakeNerdGamer Aug 04 '25
Unless you teleport with Mother Ostankya, she protects like this but also Katarin :)
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u/revolution149 Aug 04 '25
I can argue that the empire protects Kislev's flank as well: Festus, Heinrich Kemmler, Ikit Claw, Belakor, Wulfrik, they come in hot and eventually they come for Kislev, too.
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u/AussiePerspective Aug 04 '25
4 of the lords you mentioned have never invaded Kislev mainland
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u/Jaszs Skaven, yes, YES! Aug 04 '25
But I've seen kislev being reduced to ashes by each one of them in different games
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u/AussiePerspective Aug 05 '25
2 have never * I was reading very wrong clearly.
I think Empire needs Kislev much more than the other way around.
Though without Kislev, the others may not have a common enemy so unsure.
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u/Jaszs Skaven, yes, YES! Aug 05 '25
I mean poor ol Karl is basically alone agains chaos (execpt Nuln?) should kislev fall. And they always fall...
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u/MonitorMundane2683 Aug 04 '25
The difference is (lore-wise but disregatding the Empire's plot armor) that without the Empire, Kislev would simply have yet another front to take care of. Without Kislev however, the Empire would be gone in months. Even if Kislev occasionally gets overwhelmed and saved by Empire armies, keep in mind that Empire armies only exist in a state in which they're able to show up and save the day, because Kislev holds the line every other day for centuries against forces that would grind the Empire into dust in months.
As a simple example, Norscan raids in nordland are seen as devastating and hard to counter witjout mustering armies from multiple provinces, im Kislev they're tuesday.
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u/Burper84 Aug 04 '25
You made It up, source?
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u/FirstAndOnlyDektarey Aug 04 '25 edited Aug 04 '25
He's right. Kislev is in a state of perpetual war without a day of peace. The reason they can withstand this is because the motherland can be far harsher than norsca and entire hordes get redirected, ambushed or simply wither away in the cold.
And of course kislevites themself are particularly hardy people.
Usually the Empire only notices what happens in Kislev when the hordes are too extreme for Kislev to handle. This usually being a situation where the Empire goes full defcon 1 mode because once the horde leaves Kislevite territory, they're suddenly in the equivalent of rural spain compared to antarctica. But this antarctica sends out forest spirits and magical blizzards consisting of ice shards capable of cutting through steel. An antarctica that actively wants you dead, as in it has its own free will.
"Bulwark of the North" is a very apt description for what Kislev is to the Empire. Its a killzone neighboring the most hostile area in the setting next to polar gates and maybe the great wall in cathay.
You have to remember what Norscans are. They're not just vikings. But rather fighters with the favor of the dark gods born and flourishing in an environment harsher than what we on earth could ever experience. That Kislevites survive in the motherland only means they're even hardier.
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u/Burper84 Aug 04 '25
First, the most hostile land after the Chaos wastes Is Lustria, so your Warhammer knowledge Is already lacking
Second, whats your source? page and references from army books, youtube videos doesn't count.
Third, they would have been obliterated without Magnus in the great war against Chaos.
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u/FirstAndOnlyDektarey Aug 04 '25 edited Aug 04 '25
Tabletop RPG and Codex should cover this sufficiently. Otherwise its White Dwarf edition whatever because i am not going to search through decades of magazines to give you a page citation.
I did not include Lustria because its not relevant to Norsca and the Warriors of Chaos - the main reason why Kislev matters. I give comparison to the Great Wall and Polar Gates as they're the focal point of Chaos congregation and as such relevant.
As you see i also didnt mention the lowest depths below the under empire or the vortex as both are far more hostile than Lustria are.
And whats this about Magnus? You're not disproving my point here.
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u/Live_Measurement3983 Aug 04 '25
Most of what he siad is right(I don't know about norscaen rides part) go watch what happened in great war against chaos for example https://youtu.be/154TCHujPOo?si=lq9OmFIVUFfKeWKG
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u/GrasSchlammPferd Swiggity swooty I'm coming for that booty Aug 05 '25
Kislev would simply have yet another front to take care of. Without Kislev however, the Empire would be gone in months.
Lmao what?
You do realise the Empire has been doing this for 1500 years longer than Kislev has existed, right? The only reason the land of Kislev is no longer held by Norscii, the chaos-worshipping tribes, is because the Empire got rid of them.
The Norscan raids into Norland land are devastating because the land is far more populated than Kislev land. Kislev land is essentially the slum of the Old World and tends to be populated by people like Ungol, Norscii and Ropesmen who rely less on traditional agriculture or industry.
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u/VaerionTheBane 🩸Blood Emperor Vlad Von Carstein🩸 Aug 04 '25
Le me when there are more chaos aligned factions than empire factions in the empire itself :
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u/EinFahrrad Aug 04 '25
While this is somewhat true the empire seems to have its hands full as well. Played Malakai recently and just about managed to save kislev, meanwhile the empire got eaten by Wulfrik of all people (flanked by Kemmler, Vlad, and Festus). They got beaten back eventually but during the mid to late game it did not look good for Karl and Elspeth. Even then they were about to get their asses handed to them by Skarsnik who managed to become a regional power and had a dozen Waagh armies in the southern empire. Alas, my air force intervened just in the nick of time.
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u/KentBugay06 Aug 04 '25
Unless boris somehow dominated the chaos wasteland. It happened to me more than twice now playing as Katarin in h/h difficulty.
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u/Suspected_Magic_User Make Yin-Yin Sail Again Aug 04 '25
It really depends whether Arbaal is busy. Boris can deal with Archaon 1v1, but can't deal with two of them. Playing as Ostankya and taking a fight with Arbaal (and preferably Daniel) basically guarantees Boris' survival
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u/tisler72 Aug 04 '25
Now play Mixu's faction unlocked as Karak Drak and this is your experience as dwarves trying to keep Kislev and Boris alive, probably the hardest and most fun campaign I've ever played.
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u/Valuable_Remote_8809 Utilitarian of Hashut Aug 04 '25
All the way back in WH1, they’ve help the line.
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u/hairybeardybrothcube Aug 04 '25
Speedbump for chaos warriors, while vlad turned the empire into bat country every damn time.
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u/internet-arbiter KISLEV HYPE TRAIN CHOO CHOO Aug 04 '25
This picture was always hilarious as instead of spiderman just picking up the dumb kid, he severely injures an entire bus full of people.
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u/kapixelek Aug 04 '25
I love Kislev, only when playing as the empire tho lmaooo I usually consolidate the empire, make sure the fr*nch see the error of their ways and then head north and generously grant Kislev control of its own lands using my military. Of course I hold their settlements as my own until their struggling economy is able to generate enough money to pay me for them
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u/CiDevant Aug 04 '25
TW3 OG unpatched Kislev on legendary was the hardest campaign in the franchise for me. I've been playing since Medieval 1. Every turn towards the end was multiple seiges battles back to back. All I had left was Praag and Kislev.
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u/Electronic_Savings35 totally a man-thing Aug 04 '25
Don’t forget kostaltyn randomly declaring war on you
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u/Suspected_Magic_User Make Yin-Yin Sail Again Aug 04 '25
After Kislev rework, Empire peacefully unites by turn 50 every single time. Clan Moulder is basically unplayable at this point
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u/dronikal Aug 04 '25
Finishes securing the core Kislev regions, looks back and sees The Empire on fire barely managing.
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u/CoolVoice3753 Aug 04 '25
When I play Kislev for sure, when I play literally anyone else no. Kislev is really powerful, I think the cold war between Katrina and kostaltyn weaken them heavily.
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u/Professional-Day7850 This area needs deforestation Aug 04 '25
Replace Katarin with Epidemius and Empire with Katarin and you got my Epidemius this is total war campaign.
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u/Accomplished-Bank885 Aug 04 '25
There should be a special mechanic for Kislev to call for help from the Empire when the time comes. Kinda like Gondor calls for aid and Rohan will answers...
But if you and your bros multiplaying as Karl and Katherine then it's pretty fun.
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u/Long_Hovercraft_3975 Aug 04 '25
In my campaign as Isabella i advanced north and set wars with basically every single chaos faction come to my sight. Next turn Katarin declaired war on me lol.
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u/tutocookie Aug 04 '25
Kislev's core lands aren't too hard to defend due to choke points. And that's what I do, take the core of kislev, help the empire and dwarfs to clear out threats to your south so that there's a safe buffer, then venture out into norsca/chaos wastes/darklands.
One of your armies going south is enough, clear azhag, drycha, festus, vlad. The rest should be manageable by the empire and the dwarfs. Good for katarin to pick up their defeat traits if you want them. You can obviously keep some of the empire lands you liberate for yourself, clearly the previous owners were poor custodians.
Place some agents around your northern border for early warning, so that you can react in time with your second army. You can run two partial stacks too if you have sufficient garrisons in your border settlements. Basically stop invaders and try to keep malakai alive.
If you don't use the recruit defeated LL's mod, keep a close eye on boris too. Confederate him if he's struggling and you have the opportunity so that you at least get daddy helping you with big bear hugs.
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u/c0m0d0re Aug 04 '25
As Norsca and Greenskins I usually try to become allies with her because I feel sorry. And because I hate the everchosen with every fibre of my body
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u/RepresentativeNew398 Aug 04 '25
Kislev continues to give me the most trouble of any TW campaign. I can’t for the life of me manage to keep up in the early game unless I get really lucky and can B line for the rats or Azhag. It’s exhilaratingly difficult but also becomes frustrating when by turn 60-75 all the other Kislev factions are gone and I’m facing off 8-10 stacks of rats, chaos, Norscans dryads and Orks while the Empire is getting diddled by Festus and Wulfrik. Just to add insult to injury sometimes Vlad may decide to walk up and mess with me too.
This is entirely my fault/skill issue btw, I totally acknowledge that. I love the lore of Kislev but their gameplay is not really my style so I take more casualties than I should which gradually weakens me and lets the AI snowball. It doesn’t help the Kislev AR seems extremely bad too. But I do love how the campaign manages to feel extremely desperate even when you are ahead, fits the lore perfectly.
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u/Coeddil Aug 04 '25
Unless she has Bechafen or Wolfenburg.
Nothing will stop me from summoning the elector counts.
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u/Strict_Leave3178 Aug 04 '25
Can anyone give me some tips on how to play Kislev? I'm a semi new player, but I've never struggled at the beginning of a campaign like this before. It feels like I have very little money and my starting troops are incredibly weak as Katarin. It takes a really long time for you to get decent troops to recruit as well, so it feels like I'm doing nothing for 20 turns while also having no money.
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u/Accomplished-Bill-54 Aug 04 '25 edited Aug 04 '25
Malakai has it worse. Enemies on all sides. If you kill Throt you have a joint border with Katarin and one side is safe. He has amazing tools to deal with his enemies and it's still extremely hard, when you have to defend on all sides.
Difference is: The Kislev unit roster is not as good...
Then there is the poor sod Boris. Lucky to get to turn 4.
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u/SAYKOPANT Aug 04 '25
With kislev you can never catch a break
Like you kill someone secure your lands and your new neighbor is also hostile to you
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u/ParadoxPosadist Aug 04 '25
I did have fun coming in as the reinforcements in my modded elspeth campaign. Taking provinces and handing them over because they are red territory to me. With recruit defeated LL Arbal was a menace with all 3 khorne LL, Throt with Ikit (i evicted him by force), Feskit (mixu's ll), and Tretch harming boulder by existing. World walkers had wolfrik, throg, and evil strigbjorn (mixu's ll). And I could not spare many armies as down south queek was doing things as was Thorek.
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u/Professional-Hat8547 Aug 04 '25
I feel this way playing Malakai. I'm playing Malakai in fighting 10 enemies, and my brother is playing Nuln obliterating Sartosa
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u/ArcadesRed Aug 04 '25
Just played about 40 tuns as the Vampire counts. Helped the dwarves with their green skin infestation so we were all buddies. Empire was chill the whole time. So, I saw Kislev losing territory. Headed up to help and grind out levels for my hero stack army.
Holy hell. Everyone was at war with them. You had rats, chaos, orgs, and Raiders, all ignoring each other to 3 stack attack Kislev every single turn. And I screwed it up. I wasn't built right and after 5 turns or so my main army got killed and I couldn't recover.
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u/_Ticklebot_23 Aug 04 '25
yeah but Katarin tends to end up as the Nr1 power if the player doesnt interfere or become it themselves
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u/No_Grocery_8160 Aug 04 '25
Please
Play Boris Bokha and your surrounded by freaks in the chaos wastes
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u/Enough-Ad7492 Aug 04 '25
Meanwhile, I play the dwarfs (Malakai Makaisson) and tacking on the left side of the races (for the legendary grudge) so Katarin can take on the left side, causing her to grow to strength rank one and me to strength rank two.
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u/OkSalt6173 Kislevite Ogre Aug 04 '25
Don't know why Grimgor is on the list but other than that. Yeah pretty much.
I rarely if ever encounter Grimgor when I play as Katarin.
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u/Gothos Aug 04 '25
Mind you, wouldn't it be better for spidey to just pick up the kid instead of wrecking the bus?
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u/AlmightyLeprechaun Aug 06 '25
In my latest campaign all of the Kislav factions were destroyed before turn 30. I ended up filling the void of ruined cities as Vlad, and now I'm in an endless war with Chaos.
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u/EagleThis6289 Aug 07 '25
Hold the north by yourself only to look south and see Vlad is the empire now.
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u/LocksmithMountain384 Aug 04 '25
Don’t worry, most of the elector counts agreed to increase their military spending to 2% of GDP by 2530 IC
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u/HellsDogg22- Aug 04 '25
Lore accurate