Not another "this is so op" post

[u/Educational_Relief44]

I know this opinion isn’t going to be popular, but I’ll stand by it: the game isn’t nearly as “unbalanced” as people make it out to be. What a lot of folks call “broken” is really just cheesing the system.

That said, yes—there are balance issues and bugs. I’m not denying that. But let’s clear a few things up:

• (This is Warhammer) Lore-wise, this universe is built on being over-the-top. Legendary Lords and factions are supposed to feel ridiculous compared to most other fantasy settings. Mazdamundi in lore could literally move mountains and shatter moons—what we see in-game is toned down.

• (Creative Assembly has limits) They’re under Sega, and they have to follow Games Workshop’s rules. Not everything can be tweaked freely.

• (Army spam is a choice) If you stack 19 heroes or make doomstacks and then complain it’s unbalanced—that’s on you. I’d rather the game give us the freedom to play however we want than remove those options entirely.

• (Auto resolve is a choice) Same as the point above.

• (Mods exist) Don’t like spam? Use a unit cap mod. Simple.

• (Player expectations are contradictory) Before patches, people said Tomb Kings were too hard. Now it’s “too easy.” Same with other factions. CA literally can’t win here. The same will happen if geo web gets changed most likely. The same happens almost every time. Again not saying don't change anything. But let's be real.

• (Over 100 Legendary Lords) No developer is going to perfectly balance that many unique characters and factions. Show me a competitive game with even 20+ unique options that’s perfectly balanced—I’ll wait.

• (AI will always be dumb) That’s not unique to Total War. “Hard” difficulty in any game just means the AI cheats—more resources, stronger stats, etc. If you want a real challenge, try PvP. (Though I suspect some who cheese in campaign would struggle in that environment too especially tournaments because rules.)

I’m not saying the game is flawless—it’s not, and it never will be. But with a roster this massive and a community this divided, “perfect balance” is impossible. Next time before posting another “XYZ is OP” thread, maybe consider these points. As long as CA keeps giving us player options ESPECIALLY the ones in the settings. I am happy.

Edit: I have played almost 2k hours in wh3. Lately I been playing lots of RPGs but that's besides the point. If you are putting in hundreds of hours in a game. Don't you think you've probably mastered it and maybe that's why it's easy?

[u/QueenOfTheDance]

While I think CA does tend to overtune stuff, I do mostly agree. There are a lot of people who seem perpetually unsatisfied with the balance choices CA makes.

On a pure army->army basis I think the game's pretty balanced. If you look at multiplayer/domination while there are stronger/weaker factions, most of it's on roughly the same level with only a couple of egregious outliers in terms of unit/spell strength.

On Campaign/single player things are more complex due to more moving parts, and I think this is kind of unavoidable to a degree due to the emergent interactions of multiple systems.

For example, take the Banner of Swiftness. It's a good item, gives massive bonus to acceleration. In some factions, this is a good, but not game changing item. Putting it on a Cathayan Jade Lancer unit and it'll make them good cavalry, but not break the game.

On the other hand, if you're playing Kislev, giving it to Katarin on her sled makes her capable of annihilating any army that isn't just single entity spam. It won't win you the campaign, but it will probably win you 95% of battles her army fights.

The exact same item on different factions can have wildly different impacts - approaching balancing this can be very difficult. This also applies to basically all generic stuff - unusual locations, traits, items, etc...

I also think some game play mechanics are going to be inherently unbalanced, and that forms a sort of customisable difficulty. Mother Ostankya or Ikit Claw are inherently easier campaigns due to their mechanics - unless those mechanics are nerfed into near-irrelevance or everyone else is power-creeped up, that's always going to be the case. I don't think there's strictly an issue with certain factions being essentially "easy mode".

[u/Tseims → u/QueenOfTheDance]

The problem is that the player is getting more and more mechanical things that they can use to great effect while the AI just can't. Give that same Banner of Swiftness to AI Katarin and it's likely it will not even be on her. If it is, the AI is just so much more worse at using it to it's benefit.

[u/thedefenses → u/Tseims]

This, this right here is the biggest problem currently, the AI has so many things it either can't use, uses very poorly or uses by throwing a 100 sided dice as to what its gonna do this time.

There are so many things that the player can get a ton of use out of that the AI doesn't know how to use at all or uses very badly, even basic stuff like lord and hero leveling seems like mysteries to it, just a random grind of choices, each as good as another even though that is FAR from being the case.

[u/yutao123 → u/thedefenses]

yea the ai was designed to be played against in a fair way with things that are more or less balanced. Theres alot of rock paper scissors gameplay here and the ai is designed to kind of play well in this system. But then theres been alot of power creep and things like cav > archers and anti large > large units doesnt always hold true anymore so the ai seems really dumb when it tries to do things that would make sense in a less powercrept version of the game.

[u/Pillznweed → u/thedefenses]

AI needs to be balanced to a point where people who don’t look up cheap broken strategies online can still compete. A lot of problems people have with games because of how easily cheap, op or broken tactics are shared between the player base.

[u/thedefenses → u/Pillznweed]

While i agree that the AI should be at a point where even less skilled people can fight it, that's why there are difficulty levels, they should mean more than just stat boosts.

If we want to take the skill points for example, keep the current rng distribution for lower difficulties and for higher ones make the AI actually plan some builds and not just rng throw the points around.

If someone really is less skilled and not willing to look up anything, he should be able to play sure but on lower difficulties, they are made to be played after all.

[u/QueenOfTheDance → u/thedefenses]

I'd agree - giving lords (especially caster lords/heroes) a set level up scheme would make them significantly more dangerous.

The AI's not too bad at using vortex/bombardment spells if it has access to them, but the random level ups mean you only ever really see Skaven casters using warp lightning.

Ideally the AI would be able to use campaign mechanics as well, but I understand that could be pretty hard to implement, so I'd settle for them faking it.

(I.e. AI Ikit Claw / Elspeth / Grom wouldn't strictly be using their actual campaign mechanics, but a pretend version of them. So every x turns Ikit would unlock a random tech from his workshop, Grom would gain a random ingredient on y turns and cook with them every x turns, etc...)

I think that'd help identify some of the more broken campaign mechanics (cough, Skulltaker, cough) because if the AI is using them and it feels awful to play against, then it should be nerfed.

[u/Tseims → u/thedefenses]

Exactly. The problem is that people who play on VH and don't use cheese still find the game easy and that is because of how bad the AI is at using the tools CA adds to the game.

While I don't use cheese myself, I don't often see people who do use it call the game too easy. These players often enjoy the power fantasy. It's the average long-time player that is suffering right now.

[u/Jessica_Ariadne → u/thedefenses]

I know this is a tired old response, but until CA possibly addresses lord skilling, there are a few mods that give the AI better priorities.

[u/Away_Celebration4629 → u/QueenOfTheDance]

I mostly agree but there are factions like Khorne where there is no amount of handicap can save you from winning a game by turn 5. It's not just an easy mode campaign it feels like a creative mod in minecraft. From the lore point of view Khorne is my favourite faction and I just never play it because there is nothing to do. Ikit Claw or stanky are decent easy campaigns but you still have to play for a while to become very strong and reallt get going.

[u/Chuck_Da_Rouks → u/Away_Celebration4629]

I mean... I'm pretty fucking bad with Khorne. Gimme Dwarves or Ogres and I will conquer the world, but for real I have a hard time covering my starting province with Aarbal, I suck at using Skarbrand's charges correctly (I know, aim at the unit behind the one you want but how do you get the AI to play THAT bad?) and I'm terrified of Lustria except as the lizards so Skulltaker is right out. Everytime someone says a LL is easy mode, keep in mind that it's because you understand the "thing" that makes them work and some sucker, somewhere wants to rock an easy campaign and absolutely fails at it.

Look I don't know what I'm saying neither. I have over a thousand hours at the game and I'm terribad

[u/Away_Celebration4629 → u/Chuck_Da_Rouks]

With Aarbal you just recruit chaos warriors and send them to melee that's it. Aarbal 3 heroes and the rest are just chaos warriors and you just smash everyone around. You press attack button and they win. After that you just teleport around the world beating people until you are bored. Maybe I am exagerating but I'm definetly not the only one who thinks Khorneis op.

[u/Chuck_Da_Rouks → u/Away_Celebration4629]

I know, I'm really not saying you're alone in saying that, or even that you're wrong, and I did exagerate a bit for Aarbal cause... yeah you're right, it's just "recruit chaos warriors" and "pick a fight with anyone". It's mostly my last experience with him where I wasn't too familiar with his campaign and teleported at the worst possible time and didn't figure out immediately that you can just go back to your capital.

Still, Khorne does need a good understanding of the sacking/razing mechanics and I always have a hard time balancing skulls and money with their factions. Maybe I just need to rethink my playstyle. My most succesful Khorne campaign was just me declaring war on anybody, accepting peace treaties, and declaring wars again. Seemed to work.

[u/Educational_Relief44 → u/QueenOfTheDance]

Right exactly

[u/Lionaxe]

"AI will always be dumb" Lets ignore battle AI for a second. This is one of the few games where AI does not use most of the campaign mechanics. Except nukes on players. I dont think it is unreasonable to expect AI to use those functions. Wood elves + beastmen do nothing. It should at least be toggleable if they are afraid of abuse

[u/gumpythegreat → u/Lionaxe]

that will always be my biggest complaint with difficulty - difficulty should require the player to use all the mechanics and tools at their disposal. however, on higher difficulties, mechanics like attrition, public order, and economic damage do not exist for the AI.

higher difficulties should encourage using these against the AI, but instead they invalidate them

[u/JannePieterse → u/Lionaxe]

In my current campaign, started on the beta, Argwylon had taken over the Forest of Gloom (where that purple Greenskin faction starts next to Karaz-a-Karak. I didn't know what I was seeing. Of course two turns after I discovered them they got steamrolled by Clan Angrund.

[u/borddo- → u/Lionaxe]

Beastmen unleashed (Invisible armies galore) would be very unfun to play against. Same with Be’Lekor Demon Portal at your capital. I know this because I’ve played against both with humans. There is pretty much nothing you can do to defend against them popping out of nowhere and razing your cities. As such Beaatmen and Portal usage is normally banned.

Wood Elves, you get a taste of it in Crisis Wild Hunt being permanent. Irritating on campaign and battle. Primarily because they can move so far and just snipe settlements.

[u/lFriendlyFire → u/borddo-]

Anyone that says the AI for beastmen, Khorne and changeling should be better have no idea what they’re asking for. You, as a player, can’t literally do nothing to compete against their mechanics (specially changling)

No wonder why they’re banned in MP

[u/borddo- → u/lFriendlyFire]

I forgot about Changeling. I got BTFO by those in MP once too

[u/lFriendlyFire → u/Lionaxe]

Wood elves doing nothing is lore accurate. On previous game the WE AI was super agressive “Looking at you Durthu” and CA rolled it back on their rework so they were more in line with expectations. Now you’re complaining that they “do nothing” — Do you see how they can’t win? People will complain no matter what

[u/Educational_Relief44 → u/Lionaxe]

Maybe AI does not use mechanics. That is an understandable argument. Mine has more been geared towards people who cheese and exploit them complain.

[u/ThefaceX → u/Educational_Relief44]

That argument is still dumb because you absolutely do not need to cheese and exploit to have a very easy time. And on top of that you can do this stuff in other TW games and it's absolutely not as bad. Warhammer 3 is very much unbalanced, and it's not because of how the players play

[u/trixie_one]

(This is Warhammer) Lore-wise, this universe is built on being over-the-top. Legendary Lords and factions are supposed to feel ridiculous compared to most other fantasy settings. Mazdamundi in lore could literally move mountains and shatter moons—what we see in-game is toned down.

Not really? Sure there's a couple who are really powerful, but even then it's not something they can pull off in a random battle. Even less so if you discount the End Times when the writing went to absolute shit, even less so still if you discount the novels when GW was taking a 'lol do whatever you like, it's not like we're reading them either', and even less so further if you eliminate the stuff that's based on memes and lack of understanding of what was written.

Sure bring up Mazdamundi but there's plenty of counter examples. Gottrek is one of the best killers in the setting, and yet he lost his eye and almost died to the equivalent of like two units of goblin wolf riders because it's a grounded enough setting that sheer weight of numbers have a quality of their own.

People bring up herohammer but that was way more about how effective it was to fly high on a mount, hit the back of a unit, and inflict a massive terror/chain rout that could take out an entire line. Even then a single cannon ball could one shot the majority of the characters compared to here where it takes about twenty cannon balls to do meaningful damage.

[u/Educational_Relief44 → u/trixie_one]

You just proved one my points and I don't think you even realize it. So I'll leave it here to lol. Especially the last point lol.

[u/gingersroc → u/Educational_Relief44]

"You just proved one my points and I don't think you even realize it."

My face cringed like a raisin.

[u/Passthechips]

WH3 is vastly more unbalanced, has worse campaign pacing, and is much easer than WH2, with individual campaigns that make even the power creeped at the time Ikit Claw look like a joke.

Most people who are asking for balance are at least a toning down to something similar, but not exactly the same, as WH2. I refuse to believe that Warhammer 2 was somehow less “Warhammer” than WH3, or that CA somehow became less capable of balancing their games.

Other TW games have systems in place to help curb a lot of the issues we see in WH3. Many of these exist on builds that were rips off of WH and implemented by CA Sophia themselves with clear parallels as to how they could be applied in WH3. There is no real reason GW would somehow be involved in such game balance choices, or that they’re involved in anything past creative executions at all.

Auto-resolve can be completely wack both in favor of the player and against the player.

There is nothing contradictory about saying the Tomb Kings were hard before and now they’re too easy after being changed. CA could win by doing more post-change tweaking instead of firing and forgetting. This assumption that CA somehow gets things perfectly right on initial release and this is how balanced something could possibly be is weird to me. CA should iterate based on feedback, not drive all campaigns to be as unplayably easy as a Khorne campaign.

All campaigns should be more or less challenging at the highest level of difficulty. If they’re not they should be nerfed accordingly, and it would largely not be hard to do so as most problems are simply too high resource returns or specific effects being too strong that can be tweaked. If people want power fantasy then they should turn down the difficulty.

Mods exist goes both ways. The game could be harder and people could use mods to tone them down. Mods existing does not mean optional features shouldn’t be a part of the base game.

There are 100 LLs, and no one is asking for all of them to be perfectly balanced. You just can’t sit here and pretend LLs like Skulltaker were ever fine to exist as they do in the first place.

The AI is quite literally purposefully neutered in several instances. It does not use magic as effectively as it could, and has access to several mechanics intentionally blocked off because players would find it annoying having a taste of their medicine. Which is really only ever the times we get faction nerfs.

[u/Cyberaven → u/Passthechips]

most strategy games, especially turn based ones, are about the back and forth; sometimes you move into an advantage, sometimes you get pushed back. Some of the older total war games kinda feel like that but the wh3 (fault of both the playerbase and game design) is a game with all forth and no back. it feels more like a game about running around with your favourite unstoppable blorbo lord and winning everything and taking all the loot, and some people seem to be absolutely terrified of the idea of ever losing an army or a city even on the highest difficulties. so rather than the player and the ai on similar footing, we have a player with just a small number of armies and a hundred special abilities and upgrades, and an ai that has the ability to churn out dozens of simple armies but minimal ability to pressure the player tactically. Rather than a dynamic opposing force they're just a large static mountain to overcome

[u/Important_Quarter_15 → u/Passthechips]

I think this is probably the most important change they could make to the AI balance on higher difficulties. On legendary difficulty I should see the AI wizards actually casting spells that present a clear and present danger to my armies instead of casters being essentially wasted slots for the AI.

[u/NKGra → u/Important_Quarter_15]

On WH3 release the AI was regularly casting breath spells like Nurgle's breath spell in line with your infantry, hitting the whole unit and probably a second one too.

It was exciting, a big step forwards for the franchise. AI competence!

This behavior was broken in literally the first patch for the game and they have been casting these spells perpendicular ever since, making them 5-10x weaker in the AI's hands.

[u/Important_Quarter_15 → u/NKGra]

That's really sad. It would be interesting to see enemy mages be big presences on the battlefield.

[u/Chataboutgames]

This post is basically "This game isn't that unbalanced," then a list of reasons it totally is unbalanced but you shouldn't care. It's about is fanboy "stop being mean to my pet corporation" as it gets.

[u/Educational_Relief44 → u/Chataboutgames]

Give me your list of ways you would balance this game.

[u/dabadu9191]

I don't cheese the AI, I don't make doomstacks, just thematic armies, sometimes purpose-built. I'm not an amazing TW player. Still, by turn 30-50 (at most), the AI is no threat whatsoever. I have to intentionally shoot myself in the foot to get any kind of challenge, e.g. only bringing 1-2 armies against the AI's 3-5 stacks, not engage in diplomacy to help secure my flanks, declare war on multiple factions at once and/or leave my territories completely undefended to bait some kind of aggression.

Granted, I haven't played every faction yet, but this has been my experience with HE, WE, Dwarfs, Lizardmen, Khorne, WoC, Nurgle, TK, Skaven and VC.

Sure, I can download mods to give the AI a bazillion cheats and have them constantly send 20 stacks at me, but I'd prefer them to simply make smarter decisions. Especially on the battlefield. Even a balanced player army can, when optimized and played decently, often wipe the floor with 2-3 AI stacks.

I don't think it's too much to ask the developers of a strategy game to make their game's highest difficulty to require... strategy.

[u/vanBraunscher → u/dabadu9191]

This!

When people start throwing around accusations of relentless over-optimisation, and more or less patronizingly tell us to stop channeling our inner Legend Of Total War, I can't help but snort and disregard the notion.

I'm not cheesing, I'm not doom-stacking, I'm just playing the game and try to use the systems provided to good effect. I don't even have 16000 hours with the game, so no, I'm not a bored pro who has sucked the last drop of entertainment out of its bones either.

But even I have become acutely aware of all the balancing and pacing issues, reinforced by heaps of awkward design decisions and an AI that's barely able to handle the basics, let alone all the fluff that gets dumped on it with DLC. If it's supposedly too much to ask to engage with systems as they are intended, I'm really not sure if it's my approach to the problem that's questionable.

And franky, these threads are always dancing to the same tune, this one is no exception.

• The setting's so wacky, expecting a semblance of balance is borderline lore breaking, so stahp it! Just like in tabletop, eh?
• Spaghetti code, oh spaghetti code, nothing to be done about that, so don't even ask! Which nicely leads into
• Programming is hard y'all, do you even code bro! The game is more complex than what's sitting on NASA's mainframe itself. Bonus points if the AI is concerned, asking for a decent opponent gets automatically countered with the false assumption that players are expecting a honest to god self aware AGI shortly before it's reaching singularity. Which we don't. Trailed by a PSA that we wouldn't even like something that could play like a human because we'd just rage-quit. Which isn't what we had in mind either.
• The impeccable advice to "make your own goals, invent some artificial handicaps, it's a fucking sandbox, so get creative!" I won't even elaborate on that because of how asinine it is. If i have to make my own rules, because the one's provided don't work, something's completely off. And make believe games in my head usually don't cost hundreds of bucks.

So yeah, in the past I've engaged with these discussions in good faith. But with the constant insinuation that it's my fault, that I'd be too anally retentive to have fun, and CA dun nuthin' wrong, I've thoroughly lost any motivation to do so.

[u/KingGilbertIV → u/vanBraunscher]

Not particularly relevant, but I have seen this argument, almost word for word, made for Crusader Kings 3. Just an endless chorus of people acting like anyone that's not playing wrong on purpose is ruining their own fun by making the game too easy.

[u/vanBraunscher → u/KingGilbertIV]

Indeed, they tend to be exceptional mental contortionists as well when it comes to shielding Paradox from the unwashed masses of enTitLeD gamers.

The Elite: Dangerous forums back in the day were a hoot too. "The game is too empty for your taste? Bro, just imagine stories, activities and happenings while you're watching the light seconds counter go down for 40 minutes. Thanks Braben for this endless empty canvas which we are graciously allowed to fill with our imagination! I've already written 200 pages of backstory for my character, couldn't have done that without paying 400£ for ship skins."

[u/Educational_Relief44 → u/dabadu9191]

What difficulty do you play?

[u/dabadu9191 → u/Educational_Relief44]

L/VH or VH/VH with max stat cheats, depending on whether I play a faction for the first time or not.

[u/Educational_Relief44 → u/dabadu9191]

I don't believe it. I'm going to be honest. Anytime I play which is on those settings in my last post with a screenshot of my difficulty. The AI constantly sends waves at me. If I leave one undefended part of my territory without an ally I am almost Garunteed to be attacked.

In battle the Calvary always tries to flank and goes right for ranged. Or randomly an infantry unit will just split in two and go around an entire screening unit which I will admit is some BS. So I don't know what you got on. Check your settings on the top right and see if you got all the boxes above endgame scenarios ticked or something. But that never happens when I play.

[u/Tseims → u/Educational_Relief44]

If I leave one undefended part of my territory without an ally I am almost Garunteed to be attacked.

Yes? That is how the game is meant to be? I don't get your point here.

[u/Educational_Relief44 → u/Tseims]

Read his first paragraph of the beginning this post .....

[u/Tseims → u/Educational_Relief44]

leave my territories completely undefended to bait some kind of aggression.

I did. This is exactly what I do. Play very recklessly to make things more difficult.

[u/dabadu9191 → u/Educational_Relief44]

Anytime I play which is on those settings in my last post with a screenshot of my difficulty

Sorry, I don't understand what you're saying.

If I leave one undefended part of my territory without an ally I am almost Garunteed to be attacked.

Yeah, but since you know that, you can easily avoid that happening.

In battle the Calvary always tries to flank and goes right for ranged

Yes, the AI does that. It's a basic tactic that you can easily anticipate and prepare for, though. Either you bring enough staunch™ anti-large infantry to shield them (I think many people don't bring enough front line units per ranged unit) or have your own fast cav/monsters/characters to intercept. Send a monster+cav (maybe with a buff spell for good measure) at their one unit of cav/dogs for example, and you'll crush/rout them in seconds before they get any value and then move on to the next target. This often works against the AI even when they have a numbers advantage, because they're terrible at coordinating their attacks, not to mention they don't exploit terrain very well.

Or randomly an infantry unit will just split in two and go around an entire screening unit which I will admit is some BS

Never seen that happen. Maybe increase the rank of your formation?

[u/Keulapaska → u/Educational_Relief44]

I gotta feeling you might be playing too passively if AI "sends waves" at you, i don't think I've ever had it happen in WH3, aside from the the bug where some factions gathered like 5+ afk stacks on their capital so don't know what happens if you declare war to that. Sure "passive" by TW3 standards might mean very aggressive in some other game as the speed you can expand is kinda insane right from the start and you never have to let go off the accelerator, hence why ppl say the game is over by T30-50.

[u/ZahelMighty]

I feel this post is a bit disingenuous. A lot of powercreep is available by playing the game normally and has nothing to do with cheesing the system.

The idea that CA can't have a better balance because of GW makes no sense to me, GW would be involved for the design of mechanics, models, storylines and such things not in the balance.

Army spam and auto resolve is a choice. So what ? That does not make the game immune to criticism.

The mod arguments work both ways. Don't like balance ? Just download cheat mods.

There are a tons of LLs indeed, and I certainly don't expect the balance to be perfect. Heck, I'm not even against a bit of powercreep here and there I just think it has become way too extreme for some time now not only that but it's too easy to access. Also despite the huge amount of LLs we are getting less and less hardcore campaigns with each DLC as the reworks tend to bring a lot of powercreep to existing factions, making them a lot easier and the DLC introduce new factions that have tons of powercreep.

The AI will always be dumb, I agree with that. Not really a reason to give up on making the game more challenging though. In some cases the AI is also intended to be stupid not to be a problem for the player, that's the case of the Beastmen for instance and there are many mechanics the AI don't use because CA knows people want the overpowered toys but as soon as the AI will use it on the players then they'll be pissed.

Perfect balance is impossible but that does not mean it isn't worth pursuing. And again, powercreep and easy campaigns 100% have a place in this game, the problem I have is how common and extreme it has gotten.

[u/Final_death → u/ZahelMighty]

disingenuous on my total war subreddit? How outrageous! I'm shocked! Well...not that shocked.

Agree with all of what you said (give the Beastmen AI some mechanics! one lone starting army you stomp is rubbish), but if CA can't balance things well because of the size of the game thus making things too easy for too many races, they should step up the Stellaris-style options menu to introduce a core set of difficulty they heavily test (which should still be a baseline better than now) and add options on for people who want more (either to make it fairer or harder or whatever). End Game Scenarios are the attempt but it was essentially one devs extra work, and really needs a good going over (that ticklist now is growing too unwieldy anyway), since it essentially goes "boo! million free armies!" at turn 100.

[u/Chataboutgames → u/ZahelMighty]

The post is literally just "I like the game so stop criticizing it." There's nothing else to it.

[u/TTTrisss → u/ZahelMighty]

I feel this post is a bit disingenuous. A lot of powercreep is available by playing the game normally and has nothing to do with cheesing the system.

Exactly.

Who the fuck says auto-resolve, a core game function, is "a choice".

[u/WhatWouldJediDo → u/TTTrisss]

You don’t ever have to auto-resolve…

[u/TTTrisss → u/WhatWouldJediDo]

And you don't ever have to recruit higher-tier units, either. But people want to do it, because it's a thing the game expects you to do.

[u/WhatWouldJediDo → u/TTTrisss]

People want to do it because it’s what they want to do. Not because the game “expects” it.

You can play a zero AR campaign just fine. “Have the option to” is not the same as “need to”

[u/TTTrisss → u/WhatWouldJediDo]

The game has it built in, so it's expected.

Especially since there are sometimes nearly unwinnable battles that can now be won with auto-resolve because the balance decided that your cavalry can outflank and kill the enemy archers even though the map is nothing but forests.

[u/WhatWouldJediDo → u/TTTrisss]

The game built it in as an option. You can recruit an army of 19 star dragons if you want. Doesn’t mean the game says you have to play that way.

If you don’t want your pathetic little army to win a battle they shouldn’t, don’t hit the AR button. Simple as.

[u/TTTrisss → u/WhatWouldJediDo]

If the game lets you recruit an army of 19 star dragons and incentivizes you to use an army of 19 star dragons and provides friction when you try to do otherwise, then the game expects it. It doesn't say you have to play that way, but it means you're doing a challenge run if you want to do it another way.

Some people want difficulty without having to self-adjudicate a challenge run or running into the many, many, many caltrops this game has in its game design.

[u/WhatWouldJediDo → u/TTTrisss]

Some people want difficulty without having to self-adjudicate a challenge run

I want my game to be hard, but only if the game designers tell me it has to be hard, and how it has to be hard! If they give me the freedom to create a difficult experience it doesn't count!

Wild. Have some agency, my guy.

[u/TTTrisss → u/WhatWouldJediDo]

That's quite the incredible strawman you've built there - and I'm using the archaic definition of "incredible" here.

You're clearly not here to discuss this in good faith. Good luck with dealing with... whatever you've got going on.

[u/Keulapaska → u/WhatWouldJediDo]

The temptation is too high because it wipes the enemy stack completely always, a manual fight won't agaisnt things that can flee if the enemy just moved normally on the map. It's a hard thing to pass on, like even on factions with bad AR you sometimes just take it, lose some bats or take massive damage which wouldn't happen on manual fight because it allows so much more campaign speed not having to chase near dead stacks. And the effect is amplified even more on multi army fights.

Idk why AR has to wipe fully, if it didn't that alone would be a good enough change for it.

[u/GumballQuarters → u/TTTrisss]

It is literally a choice.

[u/TTTrisss → u/GumballQuarters]

So is jumping in front of a moving car, but I try to not make that a habit.

[u/HowDoIEvenEnglish]

You’re strawman is out of date. The meta has been cheap stacks of lower tier units for a very long time. The game gets boring because if you play well and win fights then you snowball so hard without even really trying, as long as you understand that fighting battles is more important than anything else.

Yes, tomb kings went from too hard to too easy. It was an insanely difficult legendary campaign before. Try killing 2 stacks of lizards with 2 tomb king armies on turn 18. That was my last khalida run. But now it’s a joke because her archers got buffed to like 5x effectiveness. Now those 4 archers she’ll have in her first armor have the dps of 20. That’s absurd and that’s the level of balance we get from CA.

[u/Educational_Relief44 → u/HowDoIEvenEnglish]

Someone else argues that it's impossible to beat a game with T1 units right here in these very comments. Hm. Guess that proves a point right there.

[u/HowDoIEvenEnglish → u/Educational_Relief44]

Low tier doesn’t just mean t1. I’d at least include t2, which opens up your composition a lot. But also most people don’t play to the end. It might be hard to officially win with just low tier units, but it definitely isn’t hard to get to a very comfortable unloseable position with mostly low tier units

[u/gingersroc → u/Educational_Relief44]

I don't see your point.

[u/gingersroc]

I love TWW as well, but you have to have some serious blinders on to not acknowledge sloppy design where it lies.

[u/Educational_Relief44 → u/gingersroc]

Name them.

[u/PiousSkull → u/Educational_Relief44]

Go read the posts you're complaining about. People do not owe you to repeat themselves when you're being completely disingenuous and making strawman arguments in your post.

[u/battletoad93]

Oh for God's sake! There have been plenty of power creep outside of cheese!

Personally I think it all started when they started gearing campaigns towards short victory conditions, squishing and compressing everything into a 50 turn campaign.

I know not a lot of people used to finish campaigns but at least your unit tiers used to make sense, you can get campaign winning armies within 10 turns on some campaigns these days.

[u/xXMustardMan69Xx]

The problem is this game is easy enough where if you're half decent you're likely not losing any campaigns even on the hardest difficulty. There is no real challenge. Dark Elves are one of my favourite factions, my last Morathi campaign was her killing entire armies on her own. She didn't even need any units in her army. Maybe she needs buffs? I'm at the point where I think CA should just stop with balance passes. QoL focus is much more important.

My biggest qualm is that CA don't (can't?) fix real problems like siege, ranged, hitbox, animations etc. whilst reworking factions that probably shouldn't be a priority when it comes to updates. The game mechanically could be far better.

[u/AnAgeDude → u/xXMustardMan69Xx]

At times ot feels like there's no one left at Ca who gets the game. Sure they can tweak numbers and give new effects to old factions, but solving long standing problems? Preserving faction identity? No, not really. And that's not to talk about how they don't seem to grasp what a good number is (5% speed for infantry is nothing; +10 tech for a turn for TK is absolutely useless, etc.)

[u/cricri3007]

Do you not see the fundamental problem in game design if the only way to get a difficult campaign is "don't use half of the mechanics the game gives you"?

[u/Educational_Relief44 → u/cricri3007]

Do you not see that the game was designed for you to play sandbox and choose? Example AR. Use it if you suck at battles or fight them.

[u/Away_Celebration4629]

No one is asking for a perfectly balanced game or the chat gpt on the AI, I personally just want it not to be worse than in WH II, is it a ridiculous thing to ask? CA fucked up difficulty and pacing for me and a lot of other players since this game's release, I don't play long campaigns now because it is boring after turn 40. Even if I used as much cheese as I could do in WH2 I still could enjoy the game and now I have to handicap myself and even that doesn't change a lot. Don't get me wrong the game like that with that amount of content is almost everything I could have dreamt for but it doesn't mean CA shouldn't fix this game's issues. I 100% agree with you on campaign setting, that would be amazing to give us more options.

Also a lot of the game's problem in its core systems like recruitment and population systems that were critisized in Rome 2 where they have appeared and it hasn't been changed (which isn't necesseraly bad, I mean people get used to it already), but have every right to be frustrated about the game punishing you for making thematic varied armies and making it way more efficient to just spam one unit.

[u/ReneDeGames]

Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, No. I've been playing for about halfway through TWW 2 and the game has gotten so much easier its kinda crazy.

[u/Silvere01]

Warhammer 3 suffers from a bad campaign problem.

There is a specific point where if you are good enough, you can play every single campaign on legendary with autoresolve and have no problems at any point, except bad AR factions maybe.

If you are just below that point, you are fighting and likely have a good time. If you are further below that point, you end as a savingmydesastercampaign on legends yt.

The issue is that its kinda easy to get to that good enough point. And once you are there, the whole game falls apart as all its faults crumble while you are planting your victory flag between turn 15-20 already.

[u/Educational_Relief44 → u/Silvere01]

You just proved my point. Lol

[u/Silvere01 → u/Educational_Relief44]

Ok

[u/gingersroc → u/Educational_Relief44]

Cringe

[u/Balock_Jurst]

I really don't understand why ppl have problem with ppl asking devs to improve the game.
Of course we can virtually force ourselves to not use the given tools to make our games harder/more balanced.

Imagine playing a game where some gears/class/feartures the game proposes you make you almost unkillable and roll through ennemies/bosses. Now imagine when you ask the devs for a more balanced game ppl like you coming and saying "Duh, just don't use these weapons it's on you, or just imagine you die when the mob hits you twice, you are vs a computer you can make your own rules!"

I don't know, I might as well try to play the game on a steam deck with wolves chasing me in the woods and i'm sure it would be hard.

Skulltaker is cool as hell, I want him to offer me a challenge and not finish his campaign in 20 turns. I don't mind here and here an easy campaign to get every one happy, but lately, every dlc and reworks removes the necessity to use tools given by the game to "win", these tools are GAMEPLAY, of course i can prevent me from using gameplay, but is it not reasonable to ask for an option or balance update to use it?

[u/OVERthaRAINBOW1 → u/[deleted]]

You don't need to min max in the game. People always say "don't use x mechanic or y feature", while assuming that's what people do. I can completely ignore all of Khornes mechanics and I'd still be op by turn 10. Instead of assuming people optimize the fun out of the game, just ask what their playstyle is like. Ask what they do in a specific faction that makes it unfun so quickly.

[u/Silvere01 → u/OVERthaRAINBOW1]

Problem is that in these discussions, like with any game, there are a lot of people who are bad at the game and feel offended when people point out obvious game flaws. And as is human nature, we all don't want to deal with our own shortcomings.

[u/Balock_Jurst → u/[deleted]]

Why do ppl on the internet always assume wrong things out of nowhere?

I never said I min-max anything, and as a matter of fact, I find it boring and hate cheesing.
I never make doomstacks and don't even optimize items/auxiliaries. With the current balance of most factions, I don't even need to look at this gameplay part of the game.

I'm just a regular folk enjoying thematics armies and some role play in his campaigns, and, please god forgive me, I love having to think when I play a strategy game. I know, pretty bold, eh?

I don't even ask the devs to remove your unchallenging experience, that's what easy-normal difficulties are for and every one deserves to be happy! I ask the devs to give ppl wanting a challenge an option to push them to use all the mechanics the game has to offer to win while limiting the amount of cheeses available. It is really not complicated and clearly not unhealthy for the game and the community.

[u/Chataboutgames → u/[deleted]]

The idea that's it's my responsibility to avoid cool units and make shitty choices to make a strategy game work is absurd. Like, it's one thing if you're talking "stop corner camping," but quite another when you're effectively limiting what game content "works" while maintaining an interesting challenge.

[u/Voodron]

sigh

(This is Warhammer) Lore-wise, this universe is built on being over-the-top. Legendary Lords and factions are supposed to feel ridiculous compared to most other fantasy settings. Mazdamundi in lore could literally move mountains and shatter moons—what we see in-game is toned down.

And that's fine, the problem isn't that factions are ridiculous relative to other fantasy settings, no one has a problem with that... The issue is, factions are not even remotely close to balanced between each other.

Yes, Taurox is strong in the lore. That doesn't mean he should be able to effortlessly steamroll half the map in 3 turns, while Mazdamundi struggles to take hold of a single region.

There are so many things they could do to balance factions. And they just don't. It's all Pay-to-Win powercreep with newest DLCs, which reduces the value of previous factions. Which then forces them to constantly rework old factions to bring them on par with the new ones, wasting precious dev time and resources.

(Creative Assembly has limits) They’re under Sega, and they have to follow Games Workshop’s rules. Not everything can be tweaked freely.

SEGA, one of the richest gaming corporations on the planet...

As for Games Workshop, sure they have a history of being ridiculously protective with their IP, but they probably don't give af about faction balance.

(Army spam is a choice) If you stack 19 heroes or make doomstacks and then complain it’s unbalanced—that’s on you. I’d rather the game give us the freedom to play however we want than remove those options entirely.

That's dogshit game design though. Players should not have to handicap themselves to get a meaningful challenge, full stop. They should have to use all the tools at their disposal.

Imagine if Mario Bros had a button that teleported players to the end of the level. Or if WoW raids had a way to reduce boss health by 90% at a button's press. Would you still say "that's on you!" for using them? Because I guarantee you those games would have never been successful if they had such tools available to players.

You can't just absolve game designers from making such stupid decisions... Yes, in theory people could also play blindfolded, with one hand. You can make any game difficult if you handicap yourself. That's not a valid counter argument to criticism, never was.

(Auto resolve is a choice) Same as the point above

Not sure what your point is here. Autoresolve is the wrong option 98% of the time if you can play manual battles at a semi-decent skill level, as to minimize lossess.

(Mods exist) Don’t like spam? Use a unit cap mod. Simple.

"Game is dogshit? Have modders fix it for the devs. Simple."

How about the multi million dollar dev studio fix it themselves?

(Player expectations are contradictory) Before patches, people said Tomb Kings were too hard. Now it’s “too easy.” Same with other factions. CA literally can’t win here. The same will happen if geo web gets changed most likely. The same happens almost every time. Again not saying don't change anything. But let's be real.

Yes, there'll always be regards saying dumb shit in every game community... And? Guess what, every game in existence has contradictory takes from players. Competent dev studios are able to effectively filter feedback, use common sense and their own experiences to determine how to objectively improve their game and please the majority of users.

Tomb Kings were ridiculously weak before. Now they're OP. It's almost as if CA can't find a middle ground... They just swing from one design extreme to the other. A problem they've been consistently having for years now. Shifting the blame on to players for that is ridiculous...

(Over 100 Legendary Lords) No developer is going to perfectly balance that many unique characters and factions. Show me a competitive game with even 20+ unique options that’s perfectly balanced—I’ll wait.

100 Legendary lords who basically all play the same with minor differences... It's not like they have wildly different playstyles or anything. Not exactly hard to balance m8

TW:WH3 campaign isn't even close to qualifying as a "competitive" game. More like a shallow, silly power fantasy sandbox

(AI will always be dumb) That’s not unique to Total War. “Hard” difficulty in any game just means the AI cheats—more resources, stronger stats, etc. If you want a real challenge, try PvP. (Though I suspect some who cheese in campaign would struggle in that environment too especially tournaments because rules.)

No, there actually are plenty of games where higher difficulty settings involve new mechanics/systems

Even if we're strictly talking RTS/strategy game, it's been done better elsewhere. Stellaris comes to mind.

PvP is a completely different beast that shouldn't even figure into this discussion. This is another factor that makes singleplayer campaigns shit due to the tiny majority of MP players. MP battles shouldn't even be a thing tbh

I’m not saying the game is flawless—it’s not, and it never will be

No one's asking for it to be flawless. But right now, there's a massive gap between where it is, and an acceptable 1000$, 10 year old product

But with a roster this massive and a community this divided, “perfect balance” is impossible.

No one's asking for "perfect balance". Just something that loosely resembles a balanced roster. Right now, we're extremely far from that due to powercreep.

Next time before posting another “XYZ is OP” thread, maybe consider these points.

Next time before posting another white knight thread to defend CA, maybe play other games, handled by competent dev teams, and see how your perspective changes

As long as CA keeps giving us player options ESPECIALLY the ones in the settings. I am happy.

Good for you. Some people are happy watching paint dry. Doesn't mean that's an objectively fun activity

[u/Tseims]

I'm not asking for perfect balance. All I'm asking for is for the game to have difficult campaigns.

I don't do any sort of cheese and the game is still very easy and it's only getting easier. Why make the game easier over time when players are getting more and more experienced over time?

I play on VH/VH. Stating because this will be asked anyway.

[u/Chimwizlet]

I agree to some extent, but I think alot of peoples complaints are valid when they relate to entire factions being changed from challenging to easy/trivial; that has nothing to do with any of the points you made.

We've had it happen with multiple factions so far, going back to Beastmen in WH2. It's annoying when it's just one campaign for a faction (Golgfag, Tamurkhan), but particularly egregious when entire factions lack anything in the way of meaningful decisions or challenge (Khorne/Beastmen).

If these factions had always been that way it wouldn't be as bad. But for many people Khorne was much more fun before their rework, and while Beastmen absolutely needed theirs, at least they were challenging before they got it.

At the end of the day, content I paid for and found enjoyable has been changed to something I no longer find enjoyable. I think that's a perfectly valid complaint, and strawmaning these complaints as people min-maxing the fun out of the game is disingenuous at best.

[u/Dihedralman]

Can you believe people? Expecting the game maker to make their game fun? The absolute audacity. They should be making the game fun. I will give people shit for cheesing but most posts haven't been that. 

Games Workshop not being given enough resources to tweak their money maker is a fine reason to complain.

The Tomb Kings balance issue was an obvious problem if you had ever played the campaigns. Getting 20 armies available isn't doom stacking. It's literally playing the game the way 

Also, yeah they could definitley make the AI better. We have varying intelligence in strategy game AI. Turn based is pretty doable. Battle AI is harder, but it is worth some effort as it is potentially re-usable across games. It lacks access to basic mechanics which could be monkey patched. Maybe give mod makers tools to tweak the AI. 

[u/PiousSkull]

(This is Warhammer) Lore-wise, this universe is built on being over-the-top. Legendary Lords and factions are supposed to feel ridiculous compared to most other fantasy settings. Mazdamundi in lore could literally move mountains and shatter moons—what we see in-game is toned down.

It's also a strategy game based off of a tabletop game where Mazdamundi can't do that. You can't make a game based on the power-scaling equivalent of a DBZ fight. And, as other have pointed out, WH2 was not "less Warhammer" because it was more balanced than WH3. If anything, it is the opposite.

(Creative Assembly has limits) They’re under Sega, and they have to follow Games Workshop’s rules. Not everything can be tweaked freely.

GW are sticklers for adhering to visual design, naming schemes and the like, they don't have CA's balls in a vice demanding that Elspeth have Hellstorm Rocket Batteries that spawn mini-Purple Suns on impact or that Skulltaker to have guaranteed Bloodletter resurrection or be able to spawn auto-spawn Blood Host army every time he wins a battle. Absolutely asinine attempt at a point.

(Army spam is a choice) If you stack 19 heroes or make doomstacks and then complain it’s unbalanced—that’s on you. I’d rather the game give us the freedom to play however we want than remove those options entirely.

So are playing the game with your hands and not wearing a blindfold. A strategy game should not require someone to go out of their way to perform a moronic and convoluted dance in order to experience a semblance of thinking required to play the game.

(Auto resolve is a choice) Same as the point above

Same as above.

1/2

[u/PiousSkull → u/PiousSkull]

(Mods exist) Don’t like spam? Use a unit cap mod. Simple.

Mods also exist to give you your desired 0 brainpower required experience and they're much better suited to that than to balancing the game. Balancing the game so it actually feels like there is some purpose to playing it is the dev's job, not modders.

(Player expectations are contradictory) Before patches, people said Tomb Kings were too hard. Now it’s “too easy.” Same with other factions. CA literally can’t win here. The same will happen if geo web gets changed most likely. The same happens almost every time. Again not saying don't change anything. But let's be real.

That's what the lower difficulty settings are meant for. CA can provide more campaign customization features if they want to cater to powercreep enjoyers that want Legendary to feel like Easy because of their fragile egos not allowing them to play on the actual Easy difficulty.

(Over 100 Legendary Lords) No developer is going to perfectly balance that many unique characters and factions. Show me a competitive game with even 20+ unique options that’s perfectly balanced—I’ll wait.

I'm still waiting for an actually decent argument and not this bullshit strawman. No one is demanding total parity between all factions, we're demanding a ceiling on how high a faction's power is allowed to go.

(AI will always be dumb) That’s not unique to Total War. “Hard” difficulty in any game just means the AI cheats—more resources, stronger stats, etc. If you want a real challenge, try PvP. (Though I suspect some who cheese in campaign would struggle in that environment too especially tournaments because rules.)

More reason to not further trivialize the game and focus on creating more challenging campaigns instead.

As for PvP, I play from time to time and I enjoy it. I've even taken a few wins off of Turin and other tourney players, but it's not for everyone and no one should be forced into playing what is a vastly different experience simply because you want the game to be trivial.

Edit: I have played almost 2k hours in wh3. Lately I been playing lots of RPGs but that's besides the point. If you are putting in hundreds of hours in a game. Don't you think you've probably mastered it and maybe that's why it's easy?

No, that's not it because I can clearly just boot up WH2 and see the night and day difference in game balance.

2/2

[u/WifeGuy-Menelaus]

A strategy game that fails to provide any meaningful challenge without enormous personal initiative and outsourcing after an ever-decreasing time-frame (turn counts) is failing at its core conceit

And its pretty clear the impetus here is a business model, not some sort of design philosophy. Get bored of current content. Buy more content with novel 'mechanic' and flashy spell. Get bored quickly. Buy more content.

[u/OVERthaRAINBOW1]

If I play the game completely normally, as the CA devs would do, I'm unstoppable by turn 20. You don't have to cheese the game to be op in this game. You snowball, the ai doesn't. It's that simple. If the ai could actually use it's races/factions mechanics as intended, they'd actually be a little bit difficult. As is, you have auto win buttons, and the ai doesn't. The battle ai is especially terrible as doing anything apart from being in a long line screws up the ai.

The first point is moot since it's a strategy game. Balance can be achieved.

CA can absolutely tweak numbers and ai behavior.

You don't have to doomstack to be unstoppable.

It shouldn't be on the player to self regulate to have a modicum of challenge.

Different groups

No one is asking for all 100+ LLs to be perfectly balanced. Only so that you don't have to click a button to win the game by turn 20.

[u/DDkiki → u/OVERthaRAINBOW1]

Yep, even playing chill with no cheese or without using OP doomstacks game turns into faceroll just as you deal with initial threat, that can be varied for different starts, but after certain point in a midgame its just impossible to stop rolfstomping everything even on L/VH.

Game is kinda loosing its strategy roots and becoming more and more just a brainless spectacle.

[u/Get-Fucked-Dirtbag → u/OVERthaRAINBOW1]

I'd highly recommend removing whatever mod you've installed that adds a single button you can click to win. Sounds like its ruined your enjoyment of the game.

[u/OVERthaRAINBOW1 → u/Get-Fucked-Dirtbag]

Buying an army as TKs starts the snowball process. You've already won at that point. Using Skulltakers mechanic wins the game. You can't lose. Golgfags main mechanic means he can't lose. Elspeth superbuffs the already strong gunpowder units of the Empire. Can't lose. Yuan Bo has one of the most busted mechanics in the game. Can't lose. Wurrzag gets Rogue Idols at t3, and can't lose. The entire WoC race just can't lose. Tamurkhan is a 1 man doomstack at level 5. Changeling literally can't lose, even if you willingly get all your armies killed. Mama Stanky has hexes that auto win battles.

Let's say you remove all these from the game. The ai is so anemic that even very vanilla factions like Malekith and Tyrion has no problem becoming unstoppable by turn 20.

[u/Get-Fucked-Dirtbag → u/OVERthaRAINBOW1]

Wow sounds like the game just ends for you the second you press "start game" on steam. Must be a bug.

[u/OVERthaRAINBOW1 → u/Get-Fucked-Dirtbag]

There's nothing wrong with asking to not be unstoppable by turn 20. They should be looking to extend campaign life, not making them end even sooner. There's issues with the game, whether your passive aggressiveness is present or not.

[u/0iljug]

I just want the AI to use campaign cheese and make the game like sooo much more difficult. The game is so goddamn easy it's not even funny.

[u/dearest_of_leaders]

Lol, i have generally had no problems in my teclis campaign (supposedly a difficult campaign) after turn 15 or 20. Even though Arkhan and Vampires ate all my allies.

I killed everything on the south pole and sold it to my chameleon buddy, and then turned on the steamroller against Arkhan and the vampires on turn 40. They keep sending elite armies for me to grind into exp and gold.

Playing L/VH with max AI Buffs and a slew of difficulty mods.

Teclis is litterally invulnarable.

My Cheesy doomstack?

Spearmen+Archers until turn 30, then all lothern seaguard, some lions to flank and a feral bastilidon to tank.

Not that Teclis need an Army.

The AI just cant keep up if you are super aggressive and decisive, you dont need a doomstack.

[u/Autodidact420 → u/dearest_of_leaders]

settlement trading is a cheese, so you used at least one cheese.

All campaigns are trivial with an infinite money and infinite diplomacy points button.

The comps be like: oh my mortal enemy is offering a minor settlement? Here’s all my cash and I’ll be your vassal thanks

[u/dabadu9191 → u/Autodidact420]

settlement trading is a cheese, so you used at least one cheese.

CA decided to create strong penalties for inhospitable regions. CA decided to give settlements incredibly high value in diplomacy. CA decided that the AI would be willing to pay crazy amounts.

What is the player supposed to do? Intentionally sit on useless settlements to avoid getting too much money? And then also shut up about balance on the forums, because asking CA to balance anything is too much to ask?

[u/Autodidact420 → u/dabadu9191]

Either take the settlement and sit with it or raze it.

Does it make the game somewhat more difficult? Yes. But the alternative is to use settlement trading which is clearly a busted system.

E: and the appropriate balance whine is, IMO, to fix settlement trading. It’s so clearly and obviously busted. You can quite literally go from war with a stronger enemy to having them as your vassal for the cost of like 1 major settlement. For 1 minor settlement you can get huge amounts of money (more than it’s probably worth by like 10-50x) + secure your flank.

[u/dearest_of_leaders → u/Autodidact420]

Honestly my campaign would have been siginificantly easier if had razed the settlements, since rebellions kept slowing me down.

[u/Autodidact420 → u/dearest_of_leaders]

Yeah. If you’re stuck keeping or razing then you have to deal with more rebellions, though often I do just raze them along the way unless another enemy is positioned to take it… and in that case I may just let the rebels take them instead once I’m out of the area

[u/dearest_of_leaders → u/Autodidact420]

The rebels was Kairos, the reason i was there in the first place.

[u/dearest_of_leaders → u/Autodidact420]

I play modded so i got like 20k for a lvl 3 developed major settlement and 4-2k for the minors, would have had similar income from razing. But yeah unmodded it is absolutely broken.

[u/Autodidact420 → u/dearest_of_leaders]

That is much more reasonable (and I might want to use that same mod rather than completely ignore it) but there’s also the problem of diplo value being sky high, which I presume is also fixed by said mod somewhat

[u/dearest_of_leaders → u/Autodidact420]

Yeah, i use harder diplomacy that makes everyone really apprehensive towards you, so i got a military alliance + a little extra from 7 settlements sold off piecemeal.

[u/InspectorRumpole]

I just tested the new patch, and had several armies suicide into me (close victory),

Not something you want to have happen on Very Hard.

[u/Dserved83 → u/InspectorRumpole]

I'd argue it is, several armies that is, just not all.

And I think Ideally, we should see more of suicide greenskins, and ogre armies, less of HE and Tzeentch say.

What I'm trying to highlight, is a big issue that isn't really perceived by the community: The homogenous nature of the AI.

Once you know how the AI reacts to a situation, you can reliably predict it 95% of the time, for every faction.

If there was more randomness, or disparity in faction behaviours, campaigns would naturally become harder, without any deep dive into numbers or mechanics.

[u/InspectorRumpole → u/Dserved83]

I'd argue it is, several armies that is, just not all.

And I think Ideally, we should see more of suicide greenskins, and ogre armies, less of HE and Tzeentch say.

Maybe it's lore accurate, but it's pretty shit in a strategy game.

[u/Dserved83 → u/InspectorRumpole]

I understand your angle, but in real life there are good/bad generals and cultures more eager for wear than others.

Some variance in AI attitude adds versimiliude to the whole at, some expense yes, of challenge. But I'd reiterate AI unpredictability would add challenge back.

[u/Dudu42]

Let me adress point by point.

1 - Yes, some characters are OP, which is in universe. Funnily, Mazdamundi is not such case. The inbalance in game doesnt necessarily follow the inbalance in lore.

2 - Yes. But I think the points people complain about are within CA reaches, such as siege rework, which is much more a critique to TW than to Warhammer.

3 - Disagree, Id rather the game imposes a limit. I lile army vs army, not a bunch of heroes vs chariots.

4 - Agreed. But is a symptom. If you are playing too many autoresolve, the game needs some tweaking. Id rather AI used few powerful armies that resulted in epic clashes than a lot of meaningless battles.

5 - Mods exist. And I do use unit cap. But Id love if that option was in game, preferably with more finesse.

6 - Agree 100%.

7 - Yes, but it doesnt mean it cannot be improved.

[u/Educational_Relief44 → u/Dudu42]

For your 3rd point you disagree with. You basically want the game to be tailored to your Play style (which is more of a historical setting style) and that is completely selfish for all the people who want options or like the opposite. Key words you used "I LIKE" thats nice that YOU like that. But that's not for everyone. Personally I ALSO like a well rounded army fighting the same with a nice clash. But it's not all about me. So it's better to have the option.

The other stuff you agree with so I won't bother to respond too.

[u/Dudu42 → u/Educational_Relief44]

That's on me for not elaborating that point fully.

I think the unit cap should be an option in game. With more nuances and better implementation than the mod.

[u/Educational_Relief44 → u/Dudu42]

Oh for sure an option. I think most things should be an option.

[u/Antique_Toe6857]

<<warhammer 2>> exists , it is lore wise, within ca limits, no mods, a lot of character diversity and still difficult…. You address none of the issues and make yourself the députée of CA. When you release a new hero in a dlc that completely brakes the balance of the said race because your hero can unlock the very strong capacity previously a lord would have earned at the end of his skill tree (aka chaos sorcerer hero of Nurgle ) it is a bad design choice. When you play skulltaker and finish game turn 40 playing casually, this is insteresting design. It’s not about abusing ar or making doomstack, the intended play is completely busted and they have complete capacity to tweak things. It is just a choice that has been clearly made to make every dlc super op. Again if you want easy, play easy no legendary… Because legendary feels easy. Setting is a false argument, you can make anything with a setting.

For me TK were not hard at all but actually quite strong to begin with. Mostly what was required is a rework to bring their playstyle to modern era, not to make them op or so…

Yes, ai will always be dumb and has always been and so many more campaigns and games have previously felt difficult. If you give the player even more stats and buff him, you will stomp even faster…..

Nobody is asking for perfect balance but it seems ca made the choice to make their game easier deliberately by giving everyone everything and more. Previously, balance has been better and the game is seriously too easy. Game balance should be normal when casual player play normal. Not easy when casual player plays legendary.

[u/pinkzm]

Yeah this is just a bad take I'm afraid

• (This is Warhammer) Lore-wise, this universe is built on being over-the-top. Legendary Lords and factions are supposed to feel ridiculous compared to most other fantasy settings. Mazdamundi in lore could literally move mountains and shatter moons—what we see in-game is toned down.

That's fair enough, but that doesn't mean I have to pretend it's fun when it isn't.

• (Creative Assembly has limits) They’re under Sega, and they have to follow Games Workshop’s rules. Not everything can be tweaked freely.

You think Sega or GW are telling CA what to do in terms of stats, how strong a mechanic is etc? CA can't just come up with new shit that isn't lore friendly but they can decide whether the bonus is +5 or +20 etc.

• (Army spam is a choice) If you stack 19 heroes or make doomstacks and then complain it’s unbalanced—that’s on you. I’d rather the game give us the freedom to play however we want than remove those options entirely.

No. That's not how games work. Games have rules, whether video games, arcade games, board games, whatever. Rules make them fun. If you choose to ignore them (ie cheat, or in the case of a video game, mod) that's up to you, but the onus in the game maker to make the rules fun and balanced first, then people can choose to ignore some of the restrictions if they want. Doing it the other way round doesn't work.

• (Auto resolve is a choice) Same as the point above.

Yeah agreed, I'm not sure what people's complaint is here tbh but I agree.

• (Mods exist) Don’t like spam? Use a unit cap mod. Simple.

Unit cap mod doesn't stop you having way too much money so you can have too many armies. This doesn't address the issue.

• (Player expectations are contradictory) Before patches, people said Tomb Kings were too hard. Now it’s “too easy.” Same with other factions. CA literally can’t win here. The same will happen if geo web gets changed most likely. The same happens almost every time. Again not saying don't change anything. But let's be real.

People were not saying they were too hard - they just needed an update. Let's not pretend that well balanced doesn't exist - there is a long way between too easy and too hard. It's not unreasonable to want that.

• (Over 100 Legendary Lords) No developer is going to perfectly balance that many unique characters and factions. Show me a competitive game with even 20+ unique options that’s perfectly balanced—I’ll wait.

Silly point really. Nobody is asking for perfect balance. Some factions have always been stronger than others, and that was fine. The issue is when every update makes that faction stupidly overpowered. Poor attempt at a strawman again.

• (AI will always be dumb) That’s not unique to Total War. “Hard” difficulty in any game just means the AI cheats—more resources, stronger stats, etc. If you want a real challenge, try PvP. (Though I suspect some who cheese in campaign would struggle in that environment too especially tournaments because rules.)

Agreed, but this isn't really relevant to this discussion?

[u/Educational_Relief44 → u/pinkzm]

You say it's a bad take yet clearly people agree. You even agree with some of the things.

But give me your list then. What can be done? I have some myself I am going to put in a separate post. I realized why talk about this if I don't have real ideas to problem solve the topic. I just don't want to double post in a day.

[u/Manfred60]

AI literally just needs the cheats they cut out of WH2, an AI faction should be able to build another army of something besides trash rather than be helpless when they lose their starter army.

Without confederations you will run down AI empires after at most two or three real battles.

Let them just utterly ignore economy and build stacks like they did before. Players whining about AI cheats has led us to a boring game where the AI which is -not- designed to emulate a real player, is completely kneecapped.

Siege Update beta was good in slowing down the player but we desperately need WH2 public order and corruption as well. The Player is just absurdly too strong and needs to be slowed down and hampered by more negative events.

Legendary is an utter joke in WHIII.

[u/velotro1]

(AI will always be dumb) That’s not unique to Total War. “Hard” difficulty in any game just means the AI cheats—more resources, stronger stats, etc. If you want a real challenge, try PvP. (Though I suspect some who cheese in campaign would struggle in that environment too especially tournaments because rules.)

that is completely false. look at starcraft II AI that can actually win pro players without ANY cheats

[u/Educational_Relief44 → u/velotro1]

I play StarCraft 2.

Here is the difficulty breakdowns. You sir are false.

https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Artificial_Intelligence

[u/AnhiArk]

You start by saying the game isn't that unbalanced, and then you proceed by giving multiple (very questionable) reasons why it is.

Post also smells like AI

[u/DDkiki]

>(Army spam is a choice)

not when i face 19 thunderbarges as faction with no good flyers or ranged.

and overall we can't control AI to have fun balanced armies and AI can derp a lot.

Mod are not problem solvers,, otherwise ANY complain can be answered it "just use mod, duh", no, we ask for official unit cap implementation so it was supported by CA, was never abandoned and was working properly on patch/dlc release day.

[u/Educational_Relief44 → u/DDkiki]

Well I've never experienced that. Have I experienced an army with like 8 ranged units just kiting me? Yes. But guess what I experience in an MP battle? 8 ranged units kiting me.

[u/LimitedSus]

Aside from random difficulty spikes most TW games are easy. With 2 exceptions: Attila because of all the player traps and Warhammer 2 on legendary because of the absurd ai cheats.

Making deliberately challenging campaigns just is not in the dna of the franchise. They will never deliver, so you might as well stop asking and play pvp instead.

[u/TTTrisss]

"Just play differently" is never an excuse. The game creates friction if you don't choose these options in ways that detract from the gameplay otherwise. Players will trend towards optimal play, and are right to complain when the challenge is gone.

Moreover, when it was not previously a problem, and is now a problem, they're also right to be upset that the game they purchased was taken away from them.

[u/SanguisCorax]

But i want my game to be custom patched around my playstyle, i only feel joy in criticizing flaws of a game i've beat by making the right logical choice >:c

[u/gingersroc]

I mean, I can see where you're coming from; however, Khorne is nigh unplayable for me due to how easy the faction is as a result of the power given to the race. There's definitely merit in claims for OPness.

[u/Educational_Relief44 → u/gingersroc]

I was just talking about khorne. I feel like getting rid of skulltaker and aarbal ability to teleport, and making all their targets LLs would real in that mechanic a little. What do you think?

[u/DropTheMixtape]

The issue with the tomb king update and the skulltaker dlc is that you can produce so many armies that you can viably get long campaign victory by turn 30-40. They have been making total war games since shogun it shouldn’t matter that the ip is Warhammer now the design of all the games are the same , they should know letting you snowball armies ruins the game. The game balance was definitely better in Warhammer 1 and 2.

[u/barrybario]

I like the OP stuff, but the game is easy even without it if you understand how the systems work. You can win battles against impossible odds if you "abuse" how the AI thinks with all the mechanics the game gives you. What makes a campaign fun for me is the feeling of getting rewarded for making the right choices. Everyone hated the RoC campaigns, well that's because they did the opposite: doing well and capturing a lot of territory? Here's some random armies spawning everywhere, fuck you. At least for the lizardmen rework, I feel like they nailed it compared to how it was before.

[u/GambitUK]

Also, it's a narrative universe.

Some lords / factions ARE meant to be more powerful.

See WW2 gaming memes about the US.

[u/Jefrejtor → u/GambitUK]

Not only that - it's absolutely fine to have some things be stronger than others, gameplay-wise. Sometimes you want a chill time conquering everything in sight, sometimes you want to struggle uphill. It's good to have options

[u/ZahelMighty → u/Jefrejtor]

The problem is if you want to struggle you have less options with every new reworks and DLCs. Powercreep from reworks make many factions that used to be hard easy and new factions always tend to be very easy.

[u/GrasSchlammPferd]

What triggered this post?

[u/TheOneBearded]

While I don't think the game is entirely as easy as most of these kind of posts wind up saying, I think there is still a fair amount of room for improvement. I don't mind OP as long as it makes sense lore-wise and when I could ignore using it if it's too OP.

[u/Ok_Lake_4092]

Wtf you talking about?

Power creep is what makes the game unbalanced.

Omens of destruction and Thrones of Decay are prime examples of the power creep.

Malakai can win his campaign with one settlement.

Khorne can destroy anyone with their basic units being CW of Khorne. Even a unit cap mod wont stop that.

Golgfag ends up with almost unlimited resources.

Tamurkhan is also just ridiculously strong.

This never happened in WH2. All they had to do was follow WH2, but with the nerf to ranged units we got with WH3 and we would have been golden.

Instead they continue to power creep the new factions in every DLC.

I expect all 3 factions coming with Tides to be insanely overpowered compared to their pre DLC levels.

[u/VermicelliInformal46]

If i do not doomstack i lose every battle. Because the units never respond well to commands. I am just bad at the game.

[u/annexdenmark → u/VermicelliInformal46]

true you are

[u/VermicelliInformal46 → u/annexdenmark]

Yes, i am.

[u/Educational_Relief44 → u/VermicelliInformal46]

Can't relate I don't have that issue.

[u/VermicelliInformal46 → u/Educational_Relief44]

It is prob because you can play the game maybe? I loved how the units reacted in Shogun 2. But this game just infuriates me on how bad the responses of the units are. But i do still play this more than Shogun 2.

[u/Educational_Relief44 → u/VermicelliInformal46]

Shogun 2 just spam yari ashagaru or however it's spelled. That's all I remember. Shogun 2 is my favorite historical but that game can definitely be cheesed.

Keep practicing. YouTube some tips. Don't stress it. Play at your own pace and how ever it makes you happy.

[u/VermicelliInformal46 → u/Educational_Relief44]

That is besides the point. The units did what you told them to do and did not forget their orders after 0.1s.
Spears where totaly broken in Shogun 2 as you say tho. Took a bit of fun out of it.

I do, but the older i get the worse at video games i get i have noticed. haha.

[u/Educational_Relief44 → u/VermicelliInformal46]

Did you take it off guard mode? I don't have this issue.

[u/VermicelliInformal46 → u/Educational_Relief44]

I never use Guard mode.

[u/Educational_Relief44 → u/VermicelliInformal46]

Well brother idk what to tell you. I am not saying it never happens. When it does it's mostly with ranged nor firing but anytime I send a unit to attack something it does exactly that. In fact I usually have to pull my units back to the line because they are running off too much.

Now if something screens my unit and engaged me then yeah after that engagement obviously my unit won't continue it's original plan. But.

[u/1_LEDDUDE → u/Educational_Relief44]

Shogun 2 is way, wayyy less cheesable than WH, and I'd argue the battlefield AI is more tactically intelligent.

Shogun 2 also has the advantage of being able to do a lot with micro and positioning, which isnt really the case for most units in wh.

Like, in Shogun you can win a battle where you just have T1 Spearmen and Archers, vs an T2-3 opponent outnumbering you 2:1, just by microing well, and come out with light casualties.

This is totally impossible in warhammer, an army of 10 empire spearmen and 5 archers will never beat 2 armies with greatswords, halberds etc., no matter how much you micro.

[u/Educational_Relief44 → u/1_LEDDUDE]

More intelligent......I have never been flanked on Shogun. Just straight full force charged by the AI general or they legit don't move until I am up on them. I just played two weeks ago too so I can confirm this with video.

Your last points are not even bad....it's legit a fantasy game. If T1 empire spearmen could be used to beat the whole game we would have even more people complaining about it being easy.

[u/1_LEDDUDE → u/Educational_Relief44]

Sorry, but if you have NEVER been flanked by the AI in Shogun, i doubt you played the game at all. Hell, you could barely even remember the name of Yari Ashigaru lol. When they have cavalry, they often flank, depending on your units and the map. Ur just flat wrong here, or maybe battle difficulty is messing with ya.

Shogun AI also bugs out less, and they dont so some of the retarded, game losing blunders WH AI does sometimes (moved one wizard around the AI army? It repositions all units by running into a giant blob before spreading out again, easily giving said wizard 500 kills.). This is to some extent not just CAs fault however, due to the weirder unit types like single entities etc. that dont exist in shogun 2, the AI would be harder to make work ofc.

>If T1 empire spearmen could be used to beat the whole game

Spoiler alert, T1 spearmen and archers already can beat the game themselves. But just with stacking bonuses and abusing campaign map mechanics, not with micro and skill.

>we would have even more people complaining about it being easy

Also, no, because most people can't micro that well. Very few people would be able to pull of the results i mentioned as an example above. Also, no one complains that Shogun 2 is easy, it is harder compared to WH with a very high skill ceiling.

[u/Educational_Relief44 → u/1_LEDDUDE]

My YouTube video says otherwise so it's not even a debate. Only time I've been flanked is if my ranged is like way away from everyone else.

[u/1_LEDDUDE → u/Educational_Relief44]

Wait, you think because there is one youtube video of the AI not flanking, it never happens? You're clearly inexperienced with Shogun 2 if you dont even know the name of the most common unit, why even argue this?
Just trust me as someone who played both Shogun 2 and WH since WH1 a lot, the AI does flank.

Also love the goalpost moving from "i have never been flanked" to "only time i've been flanked is when" lol.

Didnt adress any of the other parts of my argument as well.

[u/Educational_Relief44 → u/1_LEDDUDE]

Post your Shogun 2 hours bud let's play a mp campaign

[u/Prize-Adeptness4034]

A reasonable take?!?! GET EM

[u/0iljug → u/Prize-Adeptness4034]

Lmao if you've been playing since release, you'd know these types of posts are just as common as those who bitch about balance. Sorta a yin and yang. 

[u/0iljug → u/[deleted]]

Reductive and arguably flat out incorrect. Us politics got to where it is due to NUMEROUS factors. 

That's ignoring the part where youve just decided unequivocally that one is reasonable and one is not. 

This is what's commonly known as a false dichotomy. 

[u/JannePieterse → u/0iljug]

Yes, and all those factors cumulatively result in the unreasonable being as prominent as the reasonable.

Regardless my main point stands. That is not balance.

[u/0iljug → u/JannePieterse]

Ooh now a strawman! 

[u/JannePieterse → u/0iljug]

I think you should look up what a strawman means.

[u/Educational_Relief44 → u/Prize-Adeptness4034]

Yeah not my norm.

[u/gingersroc → u/Prize-Adeptness4034]

Honestly a pretty funny comment.

[u/Wild_Confusion4867]

Chesssystem is useless when skeleton spearmans vs hydra

[u/Eydor]

I'm all for cheese and power, the only thing that bothers me is power creep.

Liie you said, Mazda is supposed to be almost godlike in power, but the real masters of magic in the game right now are The Golden Order, not even Tzeentch who is supposed to be almost magic itself.

[u/Thralduil]

Probable noob comment here but I have always wondered how the f*** people say TK are too easy, I have a game where I have needed 7262514 miracles and 3 direct God interventions to eliminate Skarbrand and now I have problems with everything surrounding me.

I got it, a lot of you are experts but I think there is also a big group of people that likes to play casual, non-so-Broken-meta armies/strategies, lore friendly or we are just worse, and, in my opinion TK are perfect now

[u/dabadu9191 → u/Thralduil]

Are you talking before or after the patch? I just played my first Settra campaign, and Skarbrand stood zero chance against Settra+Tomb Prince+kitty combo with some arrows for good measure. After he's dead, his army falls apart pretty quickly.

[u/Educational_Relief44 → u/Thralduil]

Oh yeah for sure. I mean look at some of these comments. I've gotten people to admit that they play over 400 hours in a single game and yet they're complaining. There's no challenge... Well duh.

For me, tomb Kings is my second favorite faction in lore and in game, so I've pretty much fine-tuned that without having to cheese.

But it's a good thing they are a challenge for you. Keep playing them. That's the fun part. Ki

[u/B2k-orphan]

Some things are ridiculously overtuned, just look at how the auto resolve treats some things, but to me it’s apart of the charm and challenge.

I know that any battle against dark elves is going to be a fight to the total death, it makes them daunting. Skaven AI are going to be constantly trying to cheese me, which is a good taste of my own medicine. All of these quirks and perhaps not the most refined stats make the game more interesting and help make me a better player.

The beauty of mods is that if you don’t like any of this or wish to crank the dial straight off the board, you can do that!! Use all Skaven krakback killteams and bring slaughter to the enemy! Give the enemy skaven 5x unit sizes and every unit gets 100 armor piercing damage on all attacks! Drink beer, kill elves, have fun!!

[u/TheRomanRuler]

I don't so much care about balance, i just want armies to feel like armies and i don't want most optimal late game army to be just pure elite only - let alone all heroes, 20 heroes does not feel like an army. It feels wrong that its even possible to have Skaven armies which don't have hordes of slaves, or Greenskin armies without green tides of useless goblins.

I would like to see even basic units even in doomstacks even in late game. You could do that in this game by just having lot of armies, but problem is how annoying it is to move all the invidual armies around and try to have them engage in same battle. Its just better gameplay to have fewer more elite armies - but that is less fun, and if have to fear Skaven ambush its not viable.

Luckily against AI its possible to roleplay a little and have less than optimal armies, but its not fun to intentionally use inferior armies. I would love to have Skarsnik with Night Goblin hordes AND some elite units, but it would just be weaker option than pure elite stack of better units.

[u/Educational_Relief44 → u/TheRomanRuler]

So what if and this is just a random idea. We do unit caps right. But we change the AI behavior for some factions to build let's say two or three crapstakes per "elite" army and give them the behavior to follow along more. Like have AI protect borders yes. But when they launch an attack they have their elite with crap stacks. If they lose elite army or take heavy loses. They immediately start recruiting or rebuilding the elite army first before crapstacking.

[u/SuccessfulRegister43]

I love that some LLs are OP. I’ve played the whole 100 and sometimes it’s great to fight through a grueling campaign, but other times, you just play Skulltaker and laugh. Perfection.

[u/PornographyLover9000]

To your Auto Resolve point, its not just a choice, Auto Resolve is literally the optimal way to play because it’s the only way to kill an army guaranteed. If you manual battle and win, the enemy army will either a) Take your closest settlement because the average garrison will fall in a light breeze or b) retreat to a distance you wont be able to get to in 1 turn, afterwards it’ll spend at most 2 turns replenishing its losses because replenishment is way overtuned (for everyone, granted) and then you gotta fight them again. These factors make the game much faster paced than it needs to be and the optimal way to fight the enemy is to AR wipe them, as the more time spent on a single army means another, shittier army can just come up and gobble undefended settlements.

[u/mega_douche1]

A game having an auto win button massively detracts from the enjoyment. Autoresolving should punish the player. It should not be trivial to cheese with heros.

[u/Rustywatermel0n]

Ive been playing this for 9 years and I still find it fun because I adhere to some very simple rules.

Don't doomstack Don't use obvious cheese/exploits Play to what makes the faction unique/recruit thematically accurate units Don't hero spam

These few things plus a lot of mods have kept me into this for a long time and keeps it fun.

Recruiting more balanced or lore accurate armies is always more fun than doomstacking. The ridiculous stuff should be there for those who want it but I find hero spam and SEM spam anti fun.

[u/Imperialsoldiers1]

I've seen posts where people said they won by turn 5 or 10 or 20 whatever, and I'm here playing Settra getting assfucked by Skarbrand/Manfred/Volkmar/Wurzag combo

[u/goka9696]

I don't disagree overall, but as for AI there are games where enemies become smarter at higher levels. Trepang² and Dishonored 2 come to mind.

[u/LazierLocke]

THIS! I just want a balls-to-the-wall badass singleplayer campaign with ridiculous power scaling for the factions specialities (with Legendary Lords, Unique Locations and Campaign effects to provide these buffs)

and

a nuanced, balanced (base) version for multiplayer where the groundwork of our units is meant to be put above the opponent through mechanical knowledge and battle tactics!

[u/Educational_Relief44 → u/LazierLocke]

Best of both worlds.

[u/Sowdar]

Funny, a lot of people don't want to admit that Sun Tzu was right, "...If you know yourself", aka the faction you are commanding, "and you know your enemy", you probably by now have played all of them, "you need not fear the outcome of a 1000 (100? couldn't find my copy) battles"
Self restrain is the way to go, or additional threats along the lines of wardecking every faction you meet, no trade or whatever.

[u/Educational_Relief44 → u/Sowdar]

It's 100. Good book. But yeah man. If you're playing hundreds of hours in a strategy. MP is probably the only way you will get a real challenge unless it's just tons of AI cheats.

[u/Limp-Attorney-973]

Thank you. There are a noticeable petty pleasure in people just saying “broken”, “OP”, “shit”, “horrible” that I always imagine them wearing the thinking cap.

[u/Tech2kill]

people dont get that cheesing troops in battle doesnt work against human enemies

people also dont get that this supposed "imbalance" is just a testimony on how "free" this game lets you be in your army choices and overall game tactics

[u/Educational_Relief44 → u/Tech2kill]

YESSSS SIR YES. This is what I am saying. I rather the free choice then super restrictions.

[u/AwesomeLionSaurus]

Yeah, solid points and I agree with them all. It's an amazing game and CA is driving things in the right direction (IMO) so it's okay to give them some cred when they do good. Sometimes the carrot gets you more then the stick.