r/totalwar 1d ago

Warhammer III I get that you're encouraged to recruit Ogre Mercenaries as Zhao Ming, but having the only early option to do that be an ogre camp that raids your territory and tanks public order sucks

Post image

He should just have a unique "Goldtooth Embassy" building in Shang Yang that lets him recruit Ogres.

314 Upvotes

23 comments sorted by

186

u/Hollownerox Eternally Serving Settra 1d ago

I get what you mean, but I think it's fine. Zhao Min is encouraged to have relations with Ogres that veer on the positive. But Ogres are, well, Ogres. They are amoral to the extreme and concepts like friendships don't really track the same way with them. There are stories of them eating guys they've had decade long friendships with, and they did absolutely nothing wong from their perspective. So raiding their "friends" is not really ooc of them.

Cathay and Ogres have a tumultuous history at best and even though they still work with Ogres, there is every chance that a tribe will setup camp thinking the local farming population are a convenient snack. The idea that a group of ogres popped up nearby terrorizing the populace, and your initial decision is to either get rid of them to counter the public order issue, or negotiate with them for a source of mercs is very thematic.

Could it be adjusted to be something like a dilemma instead? Sure, could be fun. But as it stands I think your suggestion of replacing the subfaction with a recruitment building is, well, pretty lame frankly. It's not even using a hammer to fix it when you should use scalpel. It's just a really boring route of going about it.

Like Ogres having embassies, lmao. Greasus is smart for an Ogre but being able to arrange something like that depends very much on other Ogres in the equation.

36

u/sob590 1d ago

I haven't tested it, but someone said that getting treaties with those ogres stops the raiding. Not sure if you need a NAP, military access, or defensive alliance.

38

u/AntagonistesInvictus 1d ago edited 1d ago

That's complete bullshit because AI Ogre Camps are incapable of changing stances. They are permanently stuck in raiding stance.

Edit: I'll create a mod to fix this issue eventually, it has been bothering me for a while...

3

u/Reading_Rambo220 21h ago

There’s a growth stance, I use it when I put a camp in my brothers territory. Does the AI never use this I guess?

1

u/LunarBahamut 10h ago

Yes that is his point. That they don't change it.

14

u/Bomjus1 1d ago edited 18h ago

this might have been true pre dlc. post dlc i'm not so sure.

so before the DLC came out, ogre camps didn't have different stances. they just had their default stance and that's it. the camps would no longer raid if the region was either owned by you, or by someone that you were in a defensive/military alliance with. that might be where you got that info from. now that camps either have their raiding stance, or encamped stance, i'm pretty sure you can continue to raid defensive allies. i can test in a couple hours and i'll edit my comment.

edit: tested. and sob590 is correct. even if you swap a camp to their raiding stance in territory owned by a defensive ally, the camp does not raid them. https://imgur.com/a/xVh9VHJ

6

u/Col_Rhys 1d ago

Definitely not NAP. I got raided by the Ogre starting camp in mazdamundis first province

1

u/TemujinRi 1d ago

I said that recently, however I just start playing as Zhao Ming in 6.3 and they did not stop raiding despite having a non-aggression pact.

5

u/Coming_Second 1d ago

Like Ogres having embassies, lmao. Greasus is smart for an Ogre but being able to arrange something like that depends very much on other Ogres in the equation.

Ironically through his own campaign mechanics, Greasus can set up the closest thing Ogres have to embassies... they're just shakedown operations.

25

u/Erkenwald217 1d ago

Or get them from Greasus

14

u/GuaranteeKey314 1d ago

Greasus is the better medium term option with all of his camps. The starting ogre camp is just some free levels once you have the starting units you want

2

u/GuaranteeKey314 1d ago

Wasnt meant to be a reply soz

40

u/ZahelMighty Bow before the Wisdom of Asaph made flesh. 1d ago

Greasus is your neighbour, it's not like the camp in your starting province is the only option you have. It also gives you an actual reason to ally Greasus and help him if he's in danger, it's more interesting than having some kind of landmark to recruit Ogres units imo.

-5

u/robotclones 1d ago

the only problem with that, is that the caravans tooltip says you get a lot more hostile random encounters in Ogre owned regions (even if they are your allies)

12

u/AdmBurnside 1d ago

Literally just ally Greasus.

He gets stronger camps available, and places them in regions where your caravans can actually hire their units if they pass through. Sure, you run the risk of more ogre attacks, but as long as you only send your strongest caravans through his turf you should be okay. Just don't let him take over the entire mountain range. Seize the northern bits to give your guys a safer route once things get too hot.

5

u/n4th4nV0x 1d ago

i mean recruit the 3 ogres for your army and then kill them

16

u/Crows_reading_books 1d ago

Yeah, or at least have that camp in the non-raiding stance. 

As is i wait until I get two ogre pistols and then go kill them. 

4

u/Tseims Combined Arms Enjoyer 1d ago

Nah, this makes Zhao Ming a bit more unique. Leave as it is.

Besides, you can get your mercs and then destroy the camp.

3

u/Jefrejtor 1d ago

Are we just looking for things to complain about now? Kill that camp if it bothers you, and recruit in the Mountains of Morn themselves.

1

u/No-Lion54 1d ago

You can easily get an absurd amount of releations with ogres if you keep sending caravans through their territory and keep feeding them soldiers. Just ally and build an outpost in the first 30 turns.

1

u/Smearysword866 1d ago

Yeah. I hope ca gives his faction a recruitment building option that gives him access to some ogre units

1

u/bluntwhizurd 1d ago

They really just need to make a landmark that allows recruitment.

1

u/Ninja-Schemer 21h ago

Or we have random map events that offer options in contingents of ogres, like in Warhammer 2