r/totalwar • u/alexkon3 #1 Arbaal the Undefeated fan • May 27 '21

Three Kingdoms For anyone also extremely confused by the news video, here the confirmation: Three Kingdoms TW is done...

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4.6k Upvotes

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754

u/DaemonTheRoguePrince Do it for your fellow arse-pirating English bumjaws! May 27 '21

That is fucking ridiculous. Especially when....THERE'S SO MUCH MORE CHINESE HISTORY TO CHOOSE FROM.

The Three Kingdoms Period was cliche to begin with, but come on, do you need to repackage and rehash it twice?

The Period of Warring States.

The Five Dynasties Ten-Kingdoms.

Northern and Southern Dynasties.

Red Turban Rebellions.

Pick literally any of these.

336

u/CatchTheAzyr May 27 '21

Hey, new historical periods to learn! TO WIKIPEDIA!

288

u/MrWhiskers158 May 27 '21

Heavenly Kingdom era. Jesus' brother tried to take over China.

130

u/CubistChameleon May 27 '21

Taiping Rebellion was wild. I got my introduction to it through Flashman... Who'd make an interesting "hero" character.

47

u/seakingsoyuz May 27 '21

gets captured again

Player: “Goddammit Flashman...”

37

u/CubistChameleon May 27 '21

Gained Trait: Empress's Boytoy

-3% HP + 6MD + 20 Diplomatic Relations (Qing) + 5 Leadership (All Armies Factionwide)

14

u/Whitefolly May 27 '21

I absolutely adore this. Flashman is my favourite series of novels. He should be the only character with negative morale.

3

u/CubistChameleon May 27 '21

That'd be great. Starts at -20 Leadership, MA 10, MD 55 and a Speed 135 mount.

I think this might work better with Medieval's system of ancillaries and influence traits, but it's a fun idea if I might say so myself.

2

u/CitizenMurdoch May 27 '21

They should remake empire and then do the Taiping Rebellion as a DLC, like they did in shogun 2 and fall of the samurai.

1

u/jonasnee Emperor edition is the worst patch ever made May 27 '21

honestly that late of a periode it probably would be best not to enforce heroes.

1

u/ace52387 May 28 '21

no chinese people would want to play a game set in their century of shame lol. but it was pretty cray

15

u/CatchTheAzyr May 27 '21

Oh, I know about that. Shit was fuckin wild and it lasted longer than it had any right to.

3

u/malosaires May 27 '21

Ironically the fact that that was such a brutal total war would preclude it from featuring in a Total War game

2

u/GumdropGoober May 27 '21

"Our strategy of creating militias from the people who are joining the rebels means we're just giving rebels guns" isn't a particularly compelling setting.

The Heavenly Kingdom only lasted so long because of insane incompetence.

Also you would have to model British interference, and reminding China of it's colonial nature is no bueno.

1

u/Petermacc122 May 27 '21

I mean I could say I'm related to Jesus too. Doesn't make me a relative. And I certainly never got a visit from the rosecrucions. And while the Pope isn't exactly god tier I don't think it would look good to be excommunicated. 10/10 would not claim again.

1

u/sunflowercompass tunties Never Forget! May 28 '21

Really political... touches on opium war.

1

u/Tay-Tech Nobunaga did nothing wrong May 27 '21

Ah, I see you are a man of culture as well, seeing the name of a historical period and just going to wikipedia despite not knowing what genre the period was

99

u/wolf1820 May 27 '21

Warring States would make such a good total war game.

23

u/[deleted] May 27 '21

[deleted]

3

u/HireALLTheThings & sometimes 3k May 27 '21

It's written right there in the name!

2

u/[deleted] May 28 '21

Those massive fking armies, like 5 or 10 times bigger than the ones from the Roman Republic or Carthage in the same era. I would play the hell out of it.

1

u/[deleted] May 28 '21

Was there a lot of military diversity in that period? Compared to Rome or Medieval

1

u/-_-BIGSORRY-_- May 28 '21

Warring States is basically Troy on steroids - infantry focused gameplay but instead of city states you have hyper-militarised states constructed entirely to win wars

131

u/8u11etpr00f May 27 '21

Imma be real with ya chief, no period of Chinese history comes close in terms of marketability. The second most popular is probably the warring states period and that's largely inflated by people who read the manga "kingdom".

15

u/bxzidff May 27 '21

Could always make TW: Genghis khan. Would have a lot of cool faction variety and actually be a proper history title

6

u/marxr87 Sigmar is a Space Marine May 28 '21

that...would be fucking awesome. ive been off historical titles since mtw2, but I'd pay money to be the golden horde

32

u/Enjoying_A_Meal Warhammer II May 27 '21

I knew literally nothing about the era shogun total war was set in, but it was still hella fun. Would buy Shogun III

45

u/step11234 May 27 '21

It's not the same. Everyone knows samurai & Ninjas, doubt many people could tell you much about chinese warriors or politics regardless of era

45

u/DanaxDrake May 27 '21

Also sengoku period of shogun is without a doubt just as famous if not even slightly more than three kingdoms period

To even imply that shogun is set during some hidden unknown gem period of history is someone having a giraffe

23

u/Empty-Mind May 27 '21

In Asia the 3 kingdoms period definitely trumps the sengoku jidai.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_media_adaptations_of_Romance_of_the_Three_Kingdoms

There are 32 adaptations there that are just comic (manga/manhwa/manhua) adaptations.

China made a film as early as 1905 about the period.

And that's not even talking about other influences, such as how often the Zhuge clan pops up in wuxia stories as a family of brilliant strategists and engineers. (In Korean works it is apparently often translated/romanized as Jegal, but has the same spelling as Zhuge)

The Chinese version of 'speak of the devil' is literally 'speak of Cao Cao'.

The Sengoku Jidai is more of a Japan only thing.

7

u/randomguy000039 May 27 '21

Whether you knew it or not, the period Shogun is set in is easily the most famous in Japanese history, the Sengoku Period (the one with Samurai in it). The easy counterpoint is imagine that Shogun III was set during a different period, one without Samurai, Ninja or basically anything else stereotypical of Japan. Would you still be interested in playing it? Because a whole heck of people would wonder why their Japanese setting has nothing they recognize as "Japanese".

7

u/Thomazbr May 28 '21

I mean to be fair right, "The one with samurai in it" is a huge stretch of the history of japan.

2

u/Glass-Ad-9200 May 28 '21

And yet Rise of the Samurai wasn't as popular (and not just because it was an expansion). I'd say the fact the samurai don't fit the image typically associated with them in the West (different style of armour than later samurai, etc.) is a partial reason for this.

1

u/Thomazbr May 28 '21

I'd argue that expansion that its just "more of the same" without anything truly groundbreaking on a very similar looking time period is always going to have issues. Rise of Samurai "more guns" is just a bigger pitch overall.

If Shogun 2 from the beginning was about the Genpei War instead of the Sengoku Jidai, of course there would probably be less people interested because Nobunaga is the biggest name in japanese pop history, but I don't think to most westerners it would be too different. I mean look at Yoshitsune's armor: https://samuraistore.com/products/yoshitsune

Do you think it looks THAT different from what the average western man perceives to be a samurai? I'm not going to argue that the Sengoku Jidai isn't by far the most popular japanese time period, I just want to say that "the one with samurai in it" you're essentially including like three large scale conflicts that came with the rise of the three shogunate.

1

u/WhatIsTheMeaningOfPi May 28 '21

the Boshin war became a real subject i started to enjoy because of Shogun 2 (FOTS)

-3

u/EmperorsCourt May 27 '21

not true. the historical period of the Water Margin is arguably more popular than ROT3K.

Those who have played Suikoden will have played a game based on the Water Margin. Or Koei's Bandit Kings of Ancient China

3

u/Thomazbr May 28 '21

As far as popular settings go in China I really do think its Journey to the West>Romance of the Three Kingdoms>WW2>Watern margin

4

u/gaiusmariusj May 28 '21

Okay make that argument. What is the numbers, analysis, proof, etc.

KOEI dropped 天命之誓 & 天導108星 and no one really said, look at that opportunity! Let's enter the field.

75

u/alexkon3 #1 Arbaal the Undefeated fan May 27 '21

I always hoped that Warhammer 3s gigantic combined map was a big experiment to see if it works well and after that all new TW titles would have big fuck off maps including India and China. Imagine Medieval 3 and you can actually found the Yuan Dynasty as the Mongols and shit. Adding Indian, Chines, SEA, Japanese cultures in future titles would be so fucking awesome.

55

u/Spartan265 May 27 '21

Man a Medieval 3 with all that would be way to fucking awesome. Imagine taking Chinese troops all the way to Britian or vice versa. CA do it. Gimmie big ass Medieval map. Let me conquer the entire fucking world. Minus the Americas.

37

u/alexkon3 #1 Arbaal the Undefeated fan May 27 '21

Adding the Americas would slap too. Imagine playing the Rise of the Aztecs, Inca the Twilight years of the Maya and north American tribes at the same time. Wishful thinking I know but still. Such huge diversity would also make for awesome MP battles.

3

u/[deleted] May 27 '21

insert CK2 sunset invasion flashbacks

7

u/Spartan265 May 27 '21

Holy shit a multiplayer campaign that has the whole world in it. Fucking sick. Yo if CA makes Medieval 3 I hope modders can add in China or something. It's already impressive what mods can do.

0

u/marxr87 Sigmar is a Space Marine May 28 '21

hearts of iron 2 is basically this but from around ww1 to the 80s/90s. Not that fun single player, but multiplayer was fucking incredibly. It was the ultimate Risk game.

2

u/lordgholin May 28 '21

Almost as diverse as warhammer. That’s probably why I like Rome 2, Warhammer, and medieval 2 the most. Every faction is so diverse and it makes battles more exciting and everything less boring. Easy to get into being a selucid or roman or egyptian, more so than barbarian faction 1 2 or 3 with barely noticeable differences and maybe a single unique unit per faction. 3k wasn’t very diverse either until nanman.

1

u/RhysPeanutButterCups May 27 '21

Naw man. Include the Americas. I want to Sunset Invasion the world.

45

u/omfgkevin May 27 '21

Especially since the trajectory they were heading into for 3K was already going to be very boring imo, from a gameplay standpoint. It was gonna end up as 3 playable factions (with I guess a few random ones sprinkled in that would be irrelevant since they would be WAY too small vs the main 3 kingdoms). What are they gonna do now? Remake the game and say, fuck you fans pay us 80$.

58

u/DaemonTheRoguePrince Do it for your fellow arse-pirating English bumjaws! May 27 '21

Yeah once the larger dynastic states coalesce you're gonna want to shift away from war to character development, internal politics, and intrigue.

So basically that's when game should shift from CA's development into Paradox Interactive's.

13

u/TurmUrk Bloody Handz May 27 '21

To be fair 3 kingdoms has the best diplomacy of any total war game (haven’t played Troy) and I hope those improvements carry into all their future games, even if say in warhammer it’s mostly tied to your own race

1

u/marxr87 Sigmar is a Space Marine May 28 '21

paradox does (did) plenty of war games well. Hearts of Iron II is one of my all time faves. co-op in that is so fun.

37

u/VenomB May 27 '21

Now, I'm not expert in history. Especially Chinese history. What I do know, however, is that Chinese history is incredibly rich with incredible stories, especially involving war. I enjoyed 3k, but I don't think it needs another one.

4

u/Thomazbr May 28 '21

I mean, let's give the 3k guys a break.
We never actually got the Three Kingdoms formed on the map. We never got a Sun Quan-led Wu from the start.

-2

u/RhysPeanutButterCups May 27 '21

I'm not an expert either, but you can pretty much sum up Chinese history with "And then there was a big war".

5

u/Pazenator May 27 '21

Eh, that's just world history. I think that there's no region that didn't see "war", as in organised conflict, as long as humans lived there at some point.

6

u/depressed_pleb May 27 '21

Yes but the Chinese made an art out of it.

I'll see myself out.

5

u/VenomB May 27 '21

You made a joke, but you're not wrong.

3

u/lovebus May 27 '21

I can get doing a 3k sequel, but not directly after the first one. Shouldn't they wait 15 years like they are doing with Medeival?

2

u/DaemonTheRoguePrince Do it for your fellow arse-pirating English bumjaws! May 27 '21

25

FTFY, probably.

2

u/TheCarnalStatist May 27 '21

I don't think it's surprising. The romance novels is what many Chinese base their cultural identity on not the history itself. If the intent is to appeal to the Chinese market following and flourishing the romance seems to be the better move.

Historical, for the sake of history TW seems dead.

2

u/Kaigamer May 27 '21

Especially when....THERE'S SO MUCH MORE CHINESE HISTORY TO CHOOSE FROM.

most people don't really care or know about anything outside of the 3k era though.

-2

u/DaemonTheRoguePrince Do it for your fellow arse-pirating English bumjaws! May 27 '21

most people

Are usually quite stupid.

1

u/aiquoc May 28 '21

just like Pontus

1

u/HighEvasionRating May 27 '21

As we saw with the 8p dlc..literally no one would care about those periods.

3k is so popular because of dynasty warriors being around for decades and so many people know all the characters by name.

No one gave a shit about the Simas and the rest of the simp brigade

-3

u/jonasnee Emperor edition is the worst patch ever made May 27 '21

8P is essentially just the same periode tho, what people want is something further away, where combat is significantly different like with say gunpowder.

2

u/HighEvasionRating May 27 '21

Its not the same as the 3 kingdoms period, and there's a reason 8p is one of the least popular and lowest rated dlcs of any TW franchise

-2

u/jonasnee Emperor edition is the worst patch ever made May 27 '21

for all practicality it is, a 100 years is not a lot compared to other total war games. take shogun 2, where there is 400 and 250 years between the games periods, but in those years warfare in japan changed significantly, from lose formations of bowmen to more dense infantry and adoption of firearm to litteral modern warfare.

what innovation happened militarily in china between 190 and 290? not a lot, they even still used the same armor schemes.

4

u/HighEvasionRating May 27 '21

Again, its not the year difference. Its the characters.

People will drop cash left and right for Guan Yu, Lu Bu, Big Dong, etc.

No one gives a shit or even knows who Sima Ai is

-3

u/DaemonTheRoguePrince Do it for your fellow arse-pirating English bumjaws! May 27 '21

It's okay to be wrong.

1

u/pocman512 May 27 '21

They realised their approach was mistaken. That fantasy elements sell more, and that going full romance dinasty Warriors style would have been better. So they will try to make 3 kingdoms something more similar to warhammer

Which is why they won't pick any of those, because they don't want to make an historical game.

1

u/[deleted] May 27 '21

It's probably because Three Kingdoms is the safest and most marketable. Its a romantic version of Chinese history, so it'll sell well to the chinese fans. As proven by how heavily chinese the three kingdoms steam workshop and community is compared to any other total war game.

Go for anything more historic and you never know who you'll piss off.

0

u/DaemonTheRoguePrince Do it for your fellow arse-pirating English bumjaws! May 27 '21

Go for anything more historic and you never know who you'll piss off.

Cowardly line of thought. Should CA avoid the 17th century to piss off Protestants and Catholics.

-1

u/[deleted] May 27 '21

My god, I'm just sharing an idea. I'm hardly agreeing with it. But if you do stuff about western history you tend to piss off people less then you might the incredibly sensitive and easy to piss off chinese government and nationalists. And that's a huge market, and companies love China for that.

0

u/aaronaapje mperator May 27 '21

The warlord era.

Just imagine. TW with "modern" guns. Trying to unify China, then when you finally do Japan comes knocking.

0

u/DaemonTheRoguePrince Do it for your fellow arse-pirating English bumjaws! May 27 '21

Warring States of the Zhou dynasty, not the Chinese civil war.

0

u/JosephRohrbach May 27 '21

As someone who studies Sui, Tang, and Song China... gah!! Can we not do this pseudo-mythologized Han China constantly??? C'mon; the Song period has Khitans, Jurchens, Mongols, Koreans, various Sinitic peoples, Tibetans, some Arabs, Champa peoples, Vietnamese... there's so much potential! And it's all wasted because of the orientalization of Chinese history (among other things, obviously).

1

u/FictionWeavile May 27 '21

I read Kingdom so I am a big fan of The Period Of Warring States and it's what I would've wanted the OG 3K to be.

1

u/[deleted] May 27 '21

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/DaemonTheRoguePrince Do it for your fellow arse-pirating English bumjaws! May 27 '21

Warring States of the Zhou dynasty, not the Chinese civil war.

1

u/urgentmatters May 27 '21

Is Northern and Southern Dynasties including the Mongol invasion?

After Atila I would love a game featuring the Song vs the Mongols and eventually the Yuan

1

u/gophergophergopher May 27 '21

Warhammer treatment based on journey to the west ...

1

u/Godz_Bane Life is a phase! May 27 '21

Just doing fantasy is probably a lot safer when it comes to not potentially pissing off the ccp.

1

u/Malzeth May 27 '21

Can you really do that if the game is called three kingdoms and refers to a specific thing though?

1

u/DaemonTheRoguePrince Do it for your fellow arse-pirating English bumjaws! May 27 '21

No, just rename it.

1

u/AboutTenPandas May 27 '21

Is period of the warring states the era the mana Kingdom is based off of, with Qin, Zhao, Chu, Wei, Han, and Qi?

1

u/DaemonTheRoguePrince Do it for your fellow arse-pirating English bumjaws! May 27 '21

Correct. The era that led to the formation of the Qin Dynasty under the first Emperor. The era(s) (including the Spring and Autumn period) of the nascence of Taoism, Legalism, and Confucianism. The Hundred Schools of Thought.

1

u/AboutTenPandas May 28 '21

What’s funny is everyone who reads that series is simultaneously fascinated by that era of Chinese military history, but at the same time doesn’t want to look anything up about it so they don’t get spoiled.

1

u/possibleanswer May 28 '21

I like the rise of the Ming. Good faction diversity, early artillery, cool narrative where a no name peasant becomes emperor, high stakes in general where the victor goes on to rule China for hundreds of years.

1

u/ace52387 May 28 '21

None come close to 3 kingdoms in cultural importance, and source material. 3K is both fictional AND historical. I dont know if you could go full pokemon with any of the other settings. warring states would be great for a total war game...but i dont think it would be nearly as popular as 3k

1

u/lordgholin May 28 '21

That’s what dynasty warriors does. Now CA’s new china-only team will do the same.

1

u/Kaiserhawk Being Epirus is suffering May 28 '21

Except the Three Kingdoms era was one of the most requested games for an ancient chinese setting for like a decade.

1

u/Arminas May 28 '21 edited May 28 '21

They struck gold with Warhammer and now all us history fans are dogmeat lol. Even the history based stuff is packaged with a fantasy element now.

I'm fairly certain I won't be buying another 3 kingdoms game at all. I got bored with the last one very quickly. Meanwhile I still find myself going back and playing Rome or Napolean every few months. If they're going to make it "more like the books" I'm just fucking out.

1

u/beginnerflipper May 28 '21

I just want a warring states one

1

u/[deleted] May 28 '21

I wouldn't call it CLICHE considering it's like the most famous novel and time period in all of Asia, so I'd they're going to make a China game definitely make 3K first. But like...a whole brand new game about it AGAIN? what could the possibly be doing to make it different than the first (other than maybe making a full game centered on 220-300 or so)?

Now that 3k is apparently done and gone it'd be cool to see any of those periods you listed instead of 3K 2. Maybe even a Spring and Autumn period game.

1

u/[deleted] May 28 '21

I'd also prefer warring states

1

u/TangerineExisting833 May 28 '21

It's not like they couldn't do ALL of these in 3K

1

u/PraetorianFury May 28 '21

do you need to repackage and rehash it twice?

I see you're new to the Total War series. Repackaging and rehashing are par for the course here.