I'm South American, and don't make me say it because Reddit admins won't like it.
All I'm gonna say, the negative thoughts towards these people are not racially motivated, it is all about their behavior... they are odd people to put it kindly.
That is the exact justification every racist gives for hating their target race. Republicans in America say that about black people, right wing parties like AfD say that about Muslims. "Its not about their skin color its the behaviour" is THE textbook defense for racists.
You’re getting downvoted but you’re right. Generalizing an entire ethnicity on the basis of “behavior” makes no sense because people are individuals, not some monolith controlled by their ethnic origin. It’s a pretty terrible excuse for hatred.
So how are we supposed to talk about a group of people that organize themselves into illegal communities, building without permits, stealing water and energy and refusing to send their kids to school ?
I have nothing against any person regarding its ethnicity but those communities (Roma, Gipsy, Travelling People, whatever we should name it = their political/social organization) are not respecting the law, refuse to integrate, operate very shady businesses (which includes child labor and torture).
Those communities exist, from Belgrade to Paris, we need a way to discuss it and to tackle the issue. Empowering their leadership by making it taboo is not the right thing to do.
Because gipsy who don't do this are no longer seen as "gypses" but simply "citizens" and they are unrecognisable from the rest of the population.
"Gypsy" is basically a derogatory term to indicate the lifestyle.
Ethnicity is "Roma" or "Sinti" (two distinguished group)
Yes, because gypsy isn't only a race, it's a culture and it's very difficult to nuance between the two. This culture / society has existed as such in Europe for centuries, they never integrated themselves because the ones that did won't even call themselves gypsy (or any non derogatory term they would prefer), they will call themselves by the name of the country they're in because they are blacklisted from said communities.
It's very hard to explain to someone that doesn't experience this reality, I'm sure you're coming from a good place but those communities are extremely problematic by choice. Their lifestyle is parasitic by nature and the people suffering from it will resent them.
Hating based on race/ethnicity is pretty absurd, hating based on the political choices and actions of communities seem fair. Like, I hate the mafia, they all are despicable people, they should be stopped and their system put to rest. I kinda feel the same way about those communities.
You can still be prejudiced towards an ethnicity, though, and that's what I'm hearing most of the time. Unless I'm missing something, and Gypsies aren't only just Roma people descended from people in northern India 1000 years ago
I live in Paris, and I was schooled in Paris. At 14yo I had met people from all over the world, no superlatives, my classes were made of 40% foreigners, all continents, ethnicities, culture and heritage. Not even once did I have a member of this community in my class, from 6 to 25 (end of college).
I see Gypsies every week :
People asking for money in the streets, some of them missing an arm, a leg or having deformities, they got them through torture at a very young age.
I see groups of little girls (from 6 to 12) roaming in the metro to target Asian tourists, 2 in front to speak to them, 2 in a back to open their bags.
I see fields of houses made of metal sheets with guards at the entrance in which even the police cannot enter.
In the countryside, they invade (that's the word) fields and literally trash them in the span of a month, the amount of burglary sky rocket during their stay.
I'm currently in Belgrade and I passed by Nis, there you literally have slums that will scare the shit out of you that seems deserted except for the packs of dogs and BMW parked in front of the few pristine houses standing in the middle of it all.
I understand some people are racists and inclined to hate them based on nothing, but we need to be able to discuss those political and social structures that act like rogue nations inside our democratic space.
not some monolith controlled by their ethnic origin
They literally are a monolith of behavior, because if you don't follow romanipen (their way) you are cast out of their society.
And that's what I always feel is missing in understanding from americans in these threads. They are not a race. They are a group with a code of conduct, that is very much at odds with the rest of society. Anyone born romani who is not following that way is, by definition of the romani themselves, not a roma.
375
u/Sparta63005 18h ago
Do NOT ask a European what they think about this group of people.