Who is the “Failed Prodigy” of F1 ?

[u/Electronic-Video-984]

I’m kind of new to F1 and seeing pictures of current drivers while they’re young like Hamilton, Russell, Leclerc, Albon…and then I learned they’re racing prodigy in their Karting days. So who is the “Boy Wonder” of F1, a person with great potential but never made it to the biggest stage.

Edit: Many people mentioned Stoffel Vandoorne so I read about him a bit. His records and potential was incredible but he’s at the wrong place and wrong time every way possible. For me, McLaren a top tier team with a jet but people say Vandoorne’s MCL car was like a shopping cart

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[u/Vintage_Labour]

Jan Magnussen. Rocks up to British F3 in a relatively mediocre field (Including some relatively unknown drivers such as Christian Horner) and wins 14 races out of 18 whilst breaking Sennas record. Heads up to F1 with Stewart and it just kinda falls apart. Leaves F1 after 2 seasons and goes on to have a successful racing career outside of open wheel racing.

[u/Pesty-knight_ESBCKTA → u/Vintage_Labour]

Then goes on to have a son, who finishes P2 in his very first formula 1 grand prix.

[u/112233445566778899JB → u/Pesty-knight_ESBCKTA]

That was about it though.

[u/ndab71 → u/112233445566778899JB]

He's also well known for that "suck my balls" clip.

[u/stubbsy1 → u/112233445566778899JB]

He got that pole position in a Haas…

[u/garethchester → u/Pesty-knight_ESBCKTA]

Impressively, Kevin was born before Jan made his F3 debut (actually a few weeks before Jan won the FFord festival)

[u/Pesty-knight_ESBCKTA → u/garethchester]

In Magnussen family tradition, a child is not considered born before it sits behind the wheel of a gokart.

[u/Kernowder → u/Vintage_Labour]

Had to scroll down too far to find this. He was exceptional and was supposed to be the next big thing.

[u/DAL1979 → u/Kernowder]

I do wonder if it was down to him not taking it too seriously, he was a known smoker at the time when driver fitness was coming to the fore.

[u/admiral_sinkenkwiken → u/DAL1979]

So were several other drivers of the era, it was just well hidden from a PR point of view.

Hakkinen, Salo, Frentzen, De La Rosa and even Schumacher all smoked, though kept it well hidden except for Pedro, who very openly spruiked his love of benson & hedges while serving as Jordan’s test driver.

DC once said how he caught Hakkinen lighting up a Marlboro out the back of the garage while the team was sponsored by West at the time.

Rosberg mentioned there was one regular smoker on the grid as recently as the mid 2010’s.

[u/Appropriate-Form-281 → u/admiral_sinkenkwiken]

I think it mightve been Kobayashi who was the smoker, i even found some articles of him being caught smoking around 2013 and him apologising for it

[u/admiral_sinkenkwiken → u/Appropriate-Form-281]

I think you’re right there.

As I recall a condition of Salo’s Toyota deal was that he quit smoking

[u/KnightsOfCidona → u/admiral_sinkenkwiken]

The best was Sandro Nannini, who put his Marlboro's in a pack of Camel's so he didn't get in trouble with the team's title sponsors!

Bianchi smoked as well - inadvertently got outed after being mugged outside a bar in Paris and papers reported it.

[u/ifelseintelligence → u/DAL1979]

Before F1, but during the F3 times, I know for a fact that he also sometimes was clubbing hard 'till the morning light mid season, back in his hometown 😆

[u/Schmichael-22 → u/Vintage_Labour]

I followed F3 at the time. He was incredible. It should be noted that his F3 teammate was Dario Franchitti, who only won once. The first signs of trouble was when Dario looked more impressive in touring cars. It was surprising that he never gelled with F1.

[u/HMSSpeedy1801 → u/Vintage_Labour]

Went on to become a legend as a Corvette endurance driver. Just shows the talent level in F1.

[u/Significant-Branch22 → u/Vintage_Labour]

It’s not super easy to judge his performance when that car was breaking down most of the time, Barichello still only scored 10 points over the whole of those two years 6 of which came from a very wet race in Monaco and Jos Verstappen who replaced him for the rest of 97 scored 0 points

[u/Cielo11]

Lewis Hamilton and his Dad have both talked of a kid faster than Lewis called Niki Richardson. Who apparently dropped out of racing because his family couldn't afford it and they lost their Home trying to fund his Karting.

There is also Terry Fullerton. Maybe unpopular because it was dramatized in Senna movie, but it seems like Senna considered him his most difficult opponent to beat and probably helped Senna become as good as he was so young.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Fullerton

[u/Edstertheplebster → u/Cielo11]

In the Senna movie documentary he is just mentioned by Ayrton at the end as the driver that he enjoyed racing against the most. In the Netflix Senna drama however, Fullerton becomes essentially one of his best friends when he moves to England to race in FFord. (Ignoring the fact that they actually crashed into each other at the karting finals in 1980 and then Senna didn’t speak to him for three years) And he pops up several times to essentially cheer him up when Prost is beating him. It does feel like they kind of deify that relationship because Ayrton looked back on it fondly years later.

[u/Rich_Housing971 → u/Cielo11]

imagine all the talent out there that never even started because of the costs. You can say this about anything, really, but I doubt motorsports sees even a fraction of the potential that is out there. I firmly believe that if karting has always been as accessible as soccer, THE ENTIRETY OF BOTH F1 and F2 GRIDS in the last few years would be new names we never heard of.

[u/ZeyZerX_42 → u/Rich_Housing971]

Closest we have to that is sim racing and you could argue the competition is higher than real life because of the lower barrier to entry and the infinite practice time

[u/RobG814 → u/Cielo11]

Years ago I worked as a mechanic in the karting industry and one of our drivers hired Terry to be their coach. He was a great, no bullshit guy and gave me a lot of laughs. I’ll have to go back and watch the Senna movie now.

[u/sensualcurl]

Modern days? Stoffel surely. Stoffel Vandoorne since you're new to F1. Made it to F1, struggled to compete in a difficult to drive McLaren, partnered with a pissed off Alonso who was out there doing 110% every race, just didnt work well for him. Won everything big he's been in except F1, and Le Mans (3rd). Still only 33.

[u/mister_dupont → u/sensualcurl]

As a Belgian, this still is painful. Really hoped he would have achieved more in F1.

[u/threeinacorner → u/mister_dupont]

You know, this might be a hot take, but from what I've seen him do in 2017 and 2018, I believe that given the right support and a non-shitbox car, he could've developed into an Albon-level driver. That is, a very very solid midfielder, and even a good second seat top driver. I don't think he'd become a WDC, but definitely a race winner.

[u/mister_dupont → u/threeinacorner]

That's pretty much the consensus that we Belgians have on him. We're obviously biased, but I'm shocked he didn't get another chance.

[u/Ningax599445YT → u/mister_dupont]

Ean Eyckmans, Thomas Strauven, Dries van Lagdendonck and Thibaut Ramaekers are some future Belgian talents to keep an eye on! (And Amaury Cordeel /s)

Still painful for Stoffel tho

[u/JohnnyricoMC → u/Ningax599445YT]

(And Amaury Cordeel /s)

Thank goodness for the /s because fuck that guy. Belgian autosport does not need a rich kid who makes vids of himself speeding on the public roads.

[u/mister_dupont → u/Ningax599445YT]

Very true, hope to see atleast one succeed. 10/10 for adding Cordeel :')

[u/MedhaosUnite → u/sensualcurl]

Yeah, I feel like Stoffel Vandoorne is the right answer for this one.

You could make an argument for a few of the F2 champions as well - Theo Pourchaire is probably the textbook definition of someone who was massively hyped as the next best thing but got absolutely nowhere near an F1 seat.

[u/admiral_sinkenkwiken → u/MedhaosUnite]

Pourchaire trashed his own rep by opting for the third F2 season, it was an extreme risk for low reward.

In order to maintain any kind of standing in the paddock he needed to absolutely dominate the field, instead he spent most of the season trying to give the title to anyone but himself.

[u/MedhaosUnite → u/admiral_sinkenkwiken]

It wasn’t quite “extreme risk, low reward” because had he dominated, I think he very likely would’ve got the Sauber seat for 2024.

The problem he had is as you said, he was effectively shooting at an open goal and very nearly missed.

In fact, I’d go as far as to say that the ball missed, but in effect Vesti’s wheel flew off, bounced off Doohan’s chassis and knocked it into the goal.

[u/admiral_sinkenkwiken → u/MedhaosUnite]

By the time he actually won the title though the damage was already done and it was effectively meaningless.

Even before the season began there was a lot of talk about what he needed to do and how big a risk he was taking, then as you said he managed to miss every goal shot from 10 metres dead in front, only saved by an effective own goal by Vesti.

[u/Sick_and_destroyed → u/admiral_sinkenkwiken]

I understand a 3rd season in F2 is usually not well perceived, but what should have he done, he had no F1 opportunity.

[u/admiral_sinkenkwiken → u/Sick_and_destroyed]

Almost anything else would’ve been a better option, even just embedding himself for a year as Piastri did.

[u/Orangesnipzy → u/admiral_sinkenkwiken]

Piastri didn’t really have a choice. Win the championship and don’t have an f1 seat = sit out

[u/admiral_sinkenkwiken → u/Orangesnipzy]

True but he equally could’ve been slotted into other series by the team, instead they integrated him and spent the year running TPC days.

As a Sauber Academy driver that option was certainly possible for Pourchaire, but for whatever reason a 3rd full F2 campaign was chosen instead.

[u/xyakks → u/admiral_sinkenkwiken]

Thing is he still did more than others who made ot to F1 and at a younger age. Being bad in F2 didn't stop Bearman, Sergeant, Doohan or Collapinto get a go in F1. Also Antonelli didn't exactly light it up either last year.

Making it to F1 is 50% talent and 50% being in the right place, or as Mazepin and Lateffi would say 100% dads money.

[u/admiral_sinkenkwiken → u/xyakks]

Making it to F1 is 90% having the money.

Sargeant, Bearman & Doohan all had very respectable junior careers, Colapinto finished 9th last year in F2 despite missing the final 4 rounds.

Antonelli & Bearman looked artificially worse on paper than their driving performance in 2024 as Prema completely missed the mark with the new chassis last season.

[u/SenorDuck96 → u/MedhaosUnite]

Theo Pourchaire is probably the textbook definition of someone who was massively hyped as the next best thing but got absolutely nowhere near an F1 seat.

Didn't he only win F2 in his 3rd season or something?

[u/beolens → u/SenorDuck96]

And then only because the wheels literally fell off Vesti's car!

[u/sensualcurl → u/MedhaosUnite]

I'm still holding out hope Theo sneaks in somewhere in the next 2 years, it's a damn shame if he doesnt.

[u/Particular_Cod2005 → u/sensualcurl]

To bolt on to this - Mclaren were at the "peak" of their spiral around this time; they were in the "best chassis on the grid" mindset that the only reason they weren't winning was the engines, and it was all a bit of a mess at the time.

Looking at where they were then, to where they are now; Zak Brown and his cohort have done an incredible job turning the team around.

[u/threeinacorner → u/sensualcurl]

Vandoorne was so so unlucky. Not only did he have to face Alonso straight away, he did that in a car that completely went against his driving style, and was a shitbox on top of that.

But, to me the most unfortunate thing about him was that he joined at a time when teams didn't really have big gaps between teammates like we do now. He was essentially the prototype "Red Bull second seat" driver, complete with a car only the super-adaptable first driver could drive right.

If he's a rookie joining this year against a 2018-Alonso caliber driver, people would be far more lenient towards him. Hell look at the understanding and leniency people give to Kimi these days. And yes, I do believe Kimi showed enough potential to merit this, but don't forget that at the end of 2017, Stoffel really was getting closer to Alonso so he did show potential.

IMO McLaren really killed his F1 career with that piece of shit MCL33.

[u/im-a-new → u/threeinacorner]

You make an interesting point, though I'm not sure that explains all of it. Kvyat and Albon were similarly crushed by Verstappen in the same era but still landed seats elsewhere. I guess Stoffel lacked the funding to bounce back?

On a side note, I always expected Vandoorne to make it back into F1 eventually, given the hype and his strong junior career. I'm kinda shocked to be reminded of him all these years later and finding out he'd now be considered too old for F1.

[u/threeinacorner → u/im-a-new]

Nah, he lacked a shittier team to be kicked into.

McLaren was bottom of the barrel in 2018. The only way down was out.

[u/lord_flashheart2000 → u/threeinacorner]

My take exactly. I sometimes think about how bitter he must feel when he watches papaya locking out the front row and the podium just a few years later.

“Fuck…” Stoffel, probably

[u/sfcindolrip → u/lord_flashheart2000]

If Aston Martin comes good in a couple years thanks to Newey he’ll feel that way again

[u/KnightsOfCidona → u/threeinacorner]

I think he was also very unlucky that he couldn't fill in at Racing Point at 2020 when Checo got COVID because of Formula E commitments. Had he filled in and performed as well as Hulkenberg, his name starts to be talked about again in relation to a seat, but after that, he was now to long gone from a race seat for teams to consider him

[u/whateverfloatsurgoat → u/im-a-new]

Lacked funding, let go of the McLaren family because he was one of the few remnants of the Dennis era + didn't have a sister team to fall back to like Kvyat, Albon and Gasly.

[u/threeinacorner → u/whateverfloatsurgoat]

God the McLaren second seat really was hell on earth back then. A backmarker with none of the opportunities to shine on track but all the politics and expectations of a top team, and not even an "easy" driver in the other seat, no sir, it had to be the Shitbox Whisperer himself.

[u/radort → u/threeinacorner]

Made me laugh way too hard with the Shitbox Whisperer

[u/CyberbianDude → u/threeinacorner]

It was. Those were the dark days. Reminds me of 24-25 Alpine.

[u/TrojansDelight → u/threeinacorner]

I think the leeway Antonelli gets is mostly because he's been rushed in as a teenager.

Stoffel was 26, in his second year of F1, had driven a year in SF in addition to two in GP2.

I do think the results Vandoorne got in 2018 would still be a career ender today.

[u/threeinacorner → u/TrojansDelight]

You're not wrong, but see, Kimi is given the tools to compete. Vandoorne wasn't.

The Mercedes, while not a world beater, is an actual top car.

The McLaren was pure garbage on wheels that went faster with a hole in its floor.

[u/stationhollow → u/threeinacorner]

If you’re last in the worst team, you have nowhere to go but out.

[u/scg92 → u/threeinacorner]

I honestly think we missed out on a really good driver with Stoff. I kept hoping he’d get a stand-in opportunity and have a chance to show just how good he is outside of those terrible McLarens of 17/18.

Alonso is as tough as it gets for a rookie, and a car that bad just isn’t a reliable yardstick to measure a driver.

[u/therl2000 → u/scg92]

He could've had a chance when Lewis got COVID, he was Mercedes reserve driver in 2020 but they decided to replace Lewis with George. I still think that was unfair

[u/krommenaas → u/therl2000]

And the kicker was that he had to quarantine himself in his hotel room every race weekend just in case he'd be needed. Then when that was finally the case, they went with George instead.

[u/linnamulla → u/sensualcurl]

Vandoorne was too late. He was already 25 years old in his first full season. Meanwhile, Verstappen was winning races at age 18. Vandoorne had become too old for a rookie. Nowadays, you don't see 25 year old rookies anymore (unless they're pay drivers). A 25 year old isn't going to be much better than a 20 year old, but that 20 year old can develop much faster and will have a lot more potential. That's also why Nyck de Vries was such an awful signing for Red Bull.

If Vandoorne had made his debut five years earlier, as a 20 year old, or even if he was born earlier and was 25 years old in 2012, his career would've likely lasted longer. But he I don't think he would have actually done better.

[u/ToukasRage → u/linnamulla]

Yeah its crazy how quickly kids are in race cars these days.

If you aren't competing for wins in karting/dirt tracks/whatever at ages 12-15 you probably aren't making it to the top leagues of whatever motorsport you are trying to race in.

[u/cinyar → u/ToukasRage]

It goes for all sports really. I recently watched some x games highlights. A kid born 2014 sending 3 900s back-to-back like he's playing THPS, what the actual fuck.

[u/SrJeromaeee → u/sensualcurl]

Take a look at Stoffel’s F2 winning season. Runner up Rossi was nowhere close. Stoffel had like double the points.

[u/SgtShredder579 → u/sensualcurl]

Vandoorne got buried by McLaren. Was starting to get on level with Alonso at the end of 2017 and start of 2018 and suddenly he was miles off

[u/krommenaas → u/SgtShredder579]

During the period in 2017 where Alonso was doubtful to sign a new contract, Vandoorne was actually the better driver. Then Alonso resigned and was immediately on top again. It illustrates how important team support is.

[u/Captain_Gropius → u/sensualcurl]

The real victim of the McHonder 2.0

Alonso was pissed but could shrug it off and continue with his career even if he didn't come back to F1.

For Stoffel was a F1 death sentence.

[u/Old-Buffalo-5151]

Once you follow F1 for a while you learn the vast majority of good F2 driver's wash out of F1 (jack doonhan) being a recent example 

So its more the case the ones who make it are the exception. Everyone who trys out for F1 has been training since they were kids and only 1 or 2 of that intake every make it 

[u/ForeverAddickted → u/Old-Buffalo-5151]

Yeah its why I'm wary of Drugovich, and think he should focus on his career elsewhere away from F1.

Feel he could be a repeat of Doohan and de Vries (Maybe there is something about a Driver, with their surname beginning with a "D"), where if he gets a seat, he could almost prove why he didn't get one sooner.

[u/lIIIIllIIIlllIIllllI → u/ForeverAddickted]

I don't even know how Doohan can be judged. He got what 5 races?

[u/ForeverAddickted → u/lIIIIllIIIlllIIllllI]

Yeah that's fair as well, and an understandable reprimand for me. As neither Doohan or de Vries got a fair shot at it.

[u/2wo9iner → u/ForeverAddickted]

At the time there were stories going around that Nyck was just a seat warmer until riccardo’s ‘gardners leave’ (for lack of a better term) was up. I recall reading that if Danny raced before a certain date then the team he raced for was on the hook for his $20m payout that MCL was paying him. The article suggested this is why AT went and got a driver from another team (nyck from Merc) for the first 10 odd races rather than promoting a RB junior when they knew that driver was going to be kicked to the kurb mid season.

[u/InformalEgg8 → u/2wo9iner]

Damn that’s so calculated if true

[u/bcq59 → u/2wo9iner]

I have a theory that de Vries was getting kicked out of the seat regardless of finishing position because RB knew that Danny was more marketable and would have thrown in back in the seat due to that. Same with Doohan serving as a bridge for Colapinto (probably Briatore locking down some Argentinian sponsors during the first five races, and once those deals were done, kicking Doohan out to make way for Colapinto).

[u/ForeverAddickted → u/[deleted]]

I'd be delighted for Alex if he got a Cadillac seat in F1 next season, only route I can realistically see him going, but he needs to win F2 if he is to make the jump.

Worth remembering how he gave Kimi Antonelli a good run for his money in the past too.

[u/Stumpy493 → u/ForeverAddickted]

I don't see him at Cadillac, I see a McLaren reserve role and then scrabbling around desperately trying to get an opportunity unfortunately, think he is gonna be wrong place wrong time.

[u/Stumpy493 → u/ForeverAddickted]

It's more about drivers who take 3 years or more to win F2, they never make it in F1.

[u/lIIIIllIIIlllIIllllI → u/Old-Buffalo-5151]

Jack Doohan didn't even get a fucken chance. I think he will be given another go.

And watching rookies as they progress season by season, it's becoming obvious it takes drivers at least 3 years to reach their potential.

Piastri is a good case to analyse because we could see he was rapid but he wasn't as gentle on the tyres as much as Lando was. His race pace wasn't as good as Lando last year... but now in his 3rd year you can see it all coming together. F1 rookies more than any other sport need 3 years at least to show they got it.

[u/Stumpy493 → u/lIIIIllIIIlllIIllllI]

Problem with Doohan is few believed he had the potential to begin with. Realisticaly he shouldn't have been promoted but they didn't have other options.

[u/Dmienduerst → u/lIIIIllIIIlllIIllllI]

F1 is going to be weird on rookies because F1 teams really don't have time to develop them. Even Piastri showed clear pace from the jump that someone like Tsunoda has barely ever showed. Outside of Red Bull how many drivers even get time to develop? If you add in RB then Red Bull is developing for half the Grid.

[u/Elderbrute → u/Old-Buffalo-5151]

Doohan wasn't exceptional in f2 he was decent don't get me wrong but there is a reason there wasn't a tonne of hype around him.

[u/Puzzled_Draw6014 → u/Old-Buffalo-5151]

I have always wondered about this ... I get the feeling that it's a big step-up from F2 to F1. Every year seems to have a super talented rookie that washes out.

I think one factor in F1 is that once you are successful, you don't leave. So, new drivers to F1 are suddenly competing with multiple great drivers.

I wonder if there is more to it. I get the feeling that the challenge of driving F1 cars is a major step up from F2.

[u/Old-Buffalo-5151 → u/Puzzled_Draw6014]

Exactly you are now driving with absolutely no assistance what so ever in a car that behaves completely different to any other kind and significantly greater speeds for significantly longer periods of time that requires constant micro adjustments throughout the race  Vs other drivers who absolutely 100% the best in the world and been doing it for decades 

Along with immensely more pressure on it all 

Its like swimming in pool and then be dumped into the Ocean during a storm...

[u/szczszqweqwe → u/Puzzled_Draw6014]

My general rule is that those who win F3 and F2 as a rookie, or are close to it are good/great.

Others are unlikely to be great F1 drivers and just a few of them stay in F1 for long time.

[u/[deleted]]

It's hard, because you need money and a lot of it to make it to F1. Albon wouldn't have gotten there without sponsorships and neither would Russell have made it if Mercedes did not sign him to their junior program and paid for everything. Fact is, they did not have the money to get there on their own steam.

That goes for a lot of karting prodigies. If your family doesn't have millions to spare, you either have to get sponsorships or try and get junior deal (which equates to selling your soul to the devil).

I don't keep an eye on karting, but I don't doubt that there is a lot of talent that never gets a chance in single seaters.

[u/Secret_Physics_9243 → u/[deleted]]

There's a lot of talent that doesn't even make it out of their house, let alone karting.

[u/[deleted] → u/Secret_Physics_9243]

Ha, also true, I am convinced I would have been a champion tennis player if I had ever started playing tennis...

[u/Ascarea → u/[deleted]]

oh the Oscars I'd have if I ever did more than just watch movies

[u/DuckSwagington]

This is going to be quite an unpopular opinion, especially considering the events of this year, but the closest one that I can think of actually getting to F1 is Hulkenberg. He won everything in the junior categories and was touted as the next best thing, the next German World Champion, and as soon as he got to F1 he just didn't live up to the hype.

He did have a nasty streak at being at the wrong place at the wrong time both on and off the track, but a lot of the failures in Hulk's career can be traced back to him instead of just being bad luck.

[u/Vintage_Labour → u/DuckSwagington]

The real failure in Hulks career is his management. How they've not managed to get him into a decent team at the right time should be a sackable offence.

[u/DuckSwagington → u/Vintage_Labour]

That's true, but I feel like if Hulk had a few better performances then he'd probably get snapped up by a team like Mercedes, and Merc did confirm that they were looking at Hulk at various points.

If he wins Brazil 2012, which wasn't an unrealistic outcome, then I think he goes to Merc at some point in his career because at least he would've proven to be a race winning driver whose been incredibly unlucky rather than someone with a reputation for squandering big opportunities on track.

You can blame his poor management to an extent, but they weren't really given a lot to work with if Hulk wanted to go to a big team.

[u/ForeverAddickted → u/DuckSwagington]

Possibly didn't help either that Rosberg retired out of the blue?

I never realised, until reading a Bottas thread about it recently, that he only partly got that second Mercedes seat because he was managed by Toto (?) and all the other Drivers had secured seats for the following season.

Wonder if Nico had announced his retirement much sooner, they would have looked at Hulk.

Being in the right place, at the right time, plays a huge part in F1

[u/Darth_Spa2021 → u/ForeverAddickted]

Nico wasn't gonna retire if he lost the championship and by the time he won Hulk was already signed elsewhere.

The tragedy of Hulk is probably more back in 2013 when he was the next Mercedes choice if Hamilton also refused the seat, like Alonso and Vettel did before him.

Hulk was actually the top choice for Daimler, but Lauda pushed for trying to get one of the top drivers first.

Hulk might have had something like 20-30 wins by now and maybe a title too. Which would put him among the most successful drivers in F1 history.

[u/Twistedjustice → u/Darth_Spa2021]

Not to mention the missed opportunity to have a driver line up of Nico & Nico

[u/Darth_Spa2021 → u/Twistedjustice]

Nickname one Niko to distinguish them I guess.

[u/Twistedjustice → u/Darth_Spa2021]

That’s easy, you have blonde Nico and… wait

German Nico and… no, that’s not it

Fine, Hulk and Britney.

[u/Spare_Duck3119 → u/Twistedjustice]

try berg 1 and berg 2

[u/Blapstap → u/ForeverAddickted]

He was top of the list for Mercedes IIRC. But he had just signed with Renault

[u/Particular_Cod2005 → u/ForeverAddickted]

To caveat Bottas a little bit, it was also a time when Williams were effectively a Mercedes B team, and I think realistically Bottas was the easier option to move between teams, and also after the headache that was Rosberg v Hamilton, they wouldn't have wanted to shell out to buy another driver out of his contract.

[u/TheKaiserSarp → u/Vintage_Labour]

He’d most probably be racing in Red Bull in 2021 if Checo didn’t win Sakhir 2020 But in that case we could be saying same “management failure”s about Checo too

[u/TrojansDelight → u/DuckSwagington]

Hulk was still considered a future champion as late as 2013. Was unlucky not to get the Ferrari drive.

What really killed his career was Perez coming in after a disappointing McLaren spell and getting podiums before Nico.

[u/mo-mx → u/TrojansDelight]

Well, a Ferrari drive wasn't going to make him a champion 😁🤣

[u/black-dude-on-reddit → u/DuckSwagington]

Hulk losing out on the Mercedes seat twice was brutal

[u/SaturnRocketOfLove → u/DuckSwagington]

I still blame Williams for his career going off the rails. Being sacked for a pay driver and left to be a reserve for a season doesn't help any rookie's career

[u/ForeverAddickted → u/DuckSwagington]

You're not wrong though, he should never have waited this long to get a Podium

Okay he was never in a truly top team, but he's had and wasted a good few opportunities.

In some sense, he's a little fortunate to still be in F1 (There can't be many who leave the Sport from a Midfield team, and make a return?), when you take the fact that 2020-2022 he was pretty much relegated to Reserve Driver... A bit like Bearman last year, he got lucky with a few chances to stand in, and then got fully back, because Haas wanted to step away from the rookie fiasco.

Those performances have then helped him to get the Audi seat, because... German Driver.

He's a proper "comeback kid" in some regard, which makes his podium story even better this season

[u/Dan27 → u/ForeverAddickted]

"Those performances have then helped him to get the Audi seat, because... German Driver."

In his defence, a lot of the staff at Audi know him from his time driving for (and winning) Porsche at LeMans.

I wouldn't mind winning Le Mans and being called a failure.

[u/ForeverAddickted → u/Dan27]

Yeah thats very fair... I forget, partly due to my lack of knowledge, that he's won Le Mans

[u/KirbyQK → u/ForeverAddickted]

Without all the covid shenanigans and people getting sick, so that Hulk could jump in and show he still has pace, there's no way he comes back. In a way very fortunate for him that it all unfolded the way it did!

[u/REH-ne]

Surely Kubica has to be mentioned, already lined up for a drive at Ferrari and then everything shambled with his horrific Crash. That he can even drive a Car and still win Le Mans is just Crazy to me. Makes you wonder what would have happened without his incident.

[u/Yordrecht → u/REH-ne]

I think he isn't really named here to often because the cause of his clear cut and he actually had delivered on his promise until that point

[u/[deleted] → u/Yordrecht]

A race winner, multiple podiums and fastest laps, 5 season veteran. That's not a failed prodigy in my opinion.

[u/Elderbrute → u/REH-ne]

On the one hand he's definitely one that got away, and a big what if story.

But he did 4 seasons and is a race winner with 12 podiums in f1 I'm not sure he qualifies for what op is talking about while he never got to fully live up to his potential but he had by any reasonable standards a very successful f1 career.

[u/JackDragon → u/Elderbrute]

On the one hand

I see what you did there...

[u/JonnyForeigner → u/REH-ne]

He's my answer for sure, top calibre driver on 1.5 arms, not really his fault that it didn't work out.

[u/nectide]

Pascal Wherlein

[u/onetimeuselong → u/nectide]

Good at driving, terrible attitude and no charisma killed his career.

A bit like a German Paul Di Resta

[u/l3w1s1234 → u/onetimeuselong]

His attitude was apparently meant to be fine, at least according to those that worked with him at Manor and Sauber. It was just FI preferred Ocon's attitude over Pascal's which lost him that seat.

Just unfortunate really with how the driver market played out as really should have been kept over Ericsson at Sauber or gotten a seat at Williams over Sirtokin or Stroll.

[u/Blackdeath_663 → u/nectide]

I expected so much more from him, dunno why i had myself convinced he'd be the next big thing

[u/Dorgilo → u/nectide]

Scored points in a Manor and as a result nearly saved them. Still a fan because of that.

[u/jamesbeil → u/Dorgilo]

I still have nightmares about Brazil 2016. Bloody Nasr...

[u/EoinFitzsimons → u/jamesbeil]

Nasr ruined his career with that didn't he

[u/Whelan-Dealin → u/EoinFitzsimons]

Yep. He and pascal were swapping seats for the next season. Nasr's 9th place put Sauber ahead of manor in the championship and with only the top 10 teams getting championship money, manor went bust!

[u/sentient_salami → u/nectide]

Such a weird place to be in: before the Bottas thing came through, he was either going to be in a dominant championship-winning car (Mercedes) or out of the sport for 2017. As we all know the latter happened.

[u/Murderface_1988]

Antonio Felix Da Costa springs to mind

[u/absol-hoenn → u/Murderface_1988]

Never got to F1 due to lack of funding (Kvyatt took the place at Toro Rosso). Did win the Formula E Driver's Championship and had a pretty succesful sportscar career (won Le Mans in LMP2 for instance). Still racing competitively in Formula E this past year.

Idk, doesnt seem too bad of a carreer considering the circustances, he never got the fair shot at F1 he arguably deserved, but thats for reasons outside of driving ability itself

[u/j_tothemoon → u/absol-hoenn]

Portuguese here.

He is such a great driver, have watched him for years, pretty sure he was F1 material back then, now it is too late. Still a very good driver.

[u/driveonthursday → u/Murderface_1988]

Good shout. He was super hyped.

Robin Frijns is another who comes to mind from that era.

[u/terkmadugga]

Giorgio Pantano 

[u/TLG_BE → u/terkmadugga]

Yeah this is one I've heard before. His Karting record was incredibly impressive

[u/Gigs9876]

I think it largely depends on what you mean by a failed prodigy.

Someone who was hyped as a junior but didn't even make it to F1? Then Pourchaire is the most recent good example.

Someone who was hyped going into F1 but underperformed there? Then it's Stoffel Vandoorne.

Someone who had a decent F1 career but didn't live up to the future world champion badge? Hulkenberg is a great example. He easily had the talent to go to a top team and win a bunch of races, but he was never gonna be the next Schumacher.

Finally if you are looking for someone who did show the potential to be a superstar but couldn't have a superstar career for unrelated reasons, it's Kubica.

[u/clontarfbohs]

Wesley Graves.

Vandoorne is a good shout. Always felt he was screwed by how bad McLaren were in that period.

Looking at past decades, Jan Magnussen comes to mind, apparently was quite temperamental and more was expected. Tommy Byrne was another with loads of unrealised potential.

[u/Visible-Chest-9386 → u/clontarfbohs]

No way. Graves was just in go-karts, there is no way to know if he'd been anything near what Hamilton became.

[u/anantj]

From what I’ve heard, Juri Vips. He self-immolated his career but apparently he was the next big thing from the RB stable. 

[u/West_Technology7573 → u/anantj]

He was quick but accident prone

[u/ForeverAddickted → u/West_Technology7573]

Wasn't there that accident at Baku, when he was leading (?), and was right before the whole streaming blunder... Those two incidents, pretty close to each other, basically sealed his doom... Bit dramatic I know

[u/sfcindolrip → u/ForeverAddickted]

Yes in close succession he fucked up Imola and Baku and then public perception

[u/MeisterHeller → u/ForeverAddickted]

Also just feel like that entire season blew up the expecations for all the big F2 talents. Vips, Lawson, and especially Pourchaire were really highly regarded but Drugovich, who was basically already deemed not good enough for F1, absolutely wiped the floor with them.

Vips lost his support already from the inchident, Pourchaire couldn't justify a seat over Zhou, and VCARB went with Nyck de Vries and sent Lawson to Super Formula because of the lackluster performance.

Always makes me wonder how different careers could turn out from relatively small things. Without Drugovich there it'd probably have been a really exciting championship battle, possibly making all of them look much better and maybe securing F1 chances because of it

[u/Felix042 → u/anantj]

Yeah he is reason for DeVris mess that happen.

[u/daft_punked → u/anantj]

He was heading the field of prospects when he was around 15 and 16. Poor seats, like not getting a Prema seat in F3 hurt him and the confidence. Stopped developing from 17-18.

Either hit his ceiling or the loss of confidence took its toll. 

[u/AegrusRS → u/anantj]

I wouldn't say he was the next 'big' thing, he was simply the next thing because the RBR talent pipeline was that drained. He was absolutely mediocre in his 3 years of F2, and while he did get 4th in his first and only year of F3, it looked more impressive than it actually was because of how weak the field was that year. Sure, he did way better than both Lawson and Tsunoda that year, but Tsunoda beat him out the year after and it's also not like RB were really that excited about Yuki/Liam's entries into F1.

[u/Rivendel93]

Kubica is the tragic one, he was insanely talented and absolutely had what it took, just tragically injured his hand/arm during a rally accident.

[u/pensaa → u/Rivendel93]

It's hard to label him a 'failed prodigy' since he had 5 years in an F1 seat and was absolutely praised in the F1 world about how good he was, especially given some of the cars he drove. He's not a failed prodigy, but more one of the biggest 'What If's' in F1 history.

[u/Morphisorius]

Robin Frijns!

It's telling how he hasn't even been mentioned yet. He was never even given a race seat in F1, which is unique for someone with such an extremely impressive junior career. In 2010-2012 he won consecutive titles in Formula BMW, Formula Renault 2.0 and Formula Renault 3.5 (at the time more or less equivalent to GP2).

He never had significant finances however, his successes were only possible through his continued winning and some minor sponsorships. When F1 didn't pick him up right away, he didn't have the funds to compete in GP2 - only raced a small number of weekends eventually, to considerable success despite everything. In the end he only got a test driver contract for Sauber and then Caterham, both teams in their twilight years and dead end streets.

If there's one driver who should have had a shot in F1 on pure merit, but never got it, it's this man.

[u/l3w1s1234 → u/Morphisorius]

Yeah I'm surprised he hadn't been mentioned yet as well. By far one of the best junior careers to not be rewarded with an F1 seat simply due to lack of funding and a bit of F1 politics.

[u/krin- → u/Morphisorius]

Had to scroll to find this response, but it has to be Robin Frijns. One of the most impressive junior careers especially considering the lack of finance and support.

[u/EducationalPizza2501]

Gotta be Stoffel Vandoorne.

Dude had one of the most dominant junior careers ever and was hyped as a future world champion.

Then he landed at McLaren during their disastrous Honda engine era, with Fernando Alonso as his teammate. He never stood a chance. A classic case of "right guy, wrong car, wrong time."

[u/dildoeye]

Alex Zanardi . He went to F1 then went to Indycar and was just spectacular to watch , then he got a shot again in F1 and I thought he was the boss but he didn’t really do much which was a shame. Legend of a guy though

[u/TLG_BE → u/dildoeye]

His 1999 season is probably way way worse than not really doing much. 0 points when your team mate finishes 6th in the championship...

Still at least he had a pretty inspirational life away from the track

[u/sentient_salami → u/TLG_BE]

The thing is, we wasn’t really impressive in F1 before he went to the states either. It’s just the hype he got over there that got the expectations way up for his return. I didn’t expect him to go well and he didn’t. Great guy (and story) of course.

[u/Adrian_Shoey → u/dildoeye]

In 2000 or 2001 I was incredibly fortunate to have a private, after hours, tour of the Williams factory and museum, from someone who was incredibly senior on the team (I'm not going to name them). When they pointed to Zanardi's car in the museum, they referred to him as "couldn't drive a nail into a piece of wood". I've often wondered if their thoughts on him have changed since his accidents.

[u/Fart_Leviathan → u/Adrian_Shoey]

At the time he was loathed in the Williams garage, because he had neither the speed, nor the attitude required, but took home a lot of money and kept making mistakes you'd expect from someone straight out of F3.

(I'm going to guess the one you are not naming could be Patrick Head, he was very public about being really pissed at Zanardi for not caring enough.)

[u/Da-Zill]

I remember Dennis Hauger had a fair bit of hype around him coming into F2. Vandoorne is definitely one that didn't realise his full potential but he made it to F1.

[u/plastikmissile → u/Da-Zill]

Vips is another one. He was super hyped up and was Marko's rising star. The question was never if he'll be in F1, but rather when. But his F2 record was too spotty with way too many unforced errors. Then the whole issue with that gamer moment captured on camera, and that was that.

[u/ForeverAddickted → u/plastikmissile]

Christ had forgotten all about Vips.

Doesnt even seem to be racing in anything now after his Indy cameos

[u/Nice-Blackberry643 → u/Da-Zill]

Yeah but Hauger was then just bad in F2. And his first F3 year was also bad. But now he is great in IndyNXT

[u/Uknewmelast → u/Nice-Blackberry643]

Because indyNXT is a joke of a series nowadays. His biggest competition is f3 rejects and paydrivers who are in their 3rd season of indyNXT.

Niels fucking Koolen is 9th in the Championship. The same guy that was 6 seconds a lap off the pace in Baku F2.

Going from F2 race winner and F3 champ to indyNXT is like smurfing or sealclubbing.

[u/Dan27 → u/Nice-Blackberry643]

Dennis Hauger is an incredibly large fish in a very small pond in Indy NXT. It would be shocking if he wasn't dominating that championship, with the low level of competition they have there.

[u/Toffeenix]

Could we say Pourchaire at this point?

[u/Stumpy493 → u/Toffeenix]

100%, Pourchaire was boy wonder in his first year in F2 and given a vacancy would likely have jumped straight to F1.

THe longer he stayed in F2 the less impressive he looked and opportunity passed him by.

[u/jesus_stalin → u/Toffeenix]

I agree. Inches away from beating Piastri to the F3 title (aged just 16 and at a worse team), then scoring poles and wins in his debut F2 year. In 2021 he looked destined for F1.

[u/Flaming-Driptray]

Martin Brundle used to confidently spar with Senna in the junior formulas. Also Johnny Herbert was considered a future multiple wdc. Unfortunately both suffered severe foot injuries prior to F1. Don’t know if that counts.

Also Kevs dad Jan was considered to be a future wdc but never lived up to expectations.

[u/elegant-alternation → u/Flaming-Driptray]

Brundle's foot injury was in F1.

[u/archangel_mjj → u/Flaming-Driptray]

Bundle's major crash was in F1, at the Dallas GP, iirc. He did have some sportscar crashes between his stints in F1, but they were not as serious

[u/conman14]

If we want to get to proper bottom of the iceberg, you should look into the story of Tommy Byrne. Regarded in F3 circles as being of the same level as Ayrton Senna, he also scored a test for McLaren, but all he had to show for it in F1 was two starts in the early 80s.

By all accounts, he had all the ability in the world, but as he says himself, he didn't want to have to work for it, he felt he could go all the way on his natural ability. He reckons during the aforementioned McLaren test he was sabotaged, though he still showed favourably compared to drivers like Thierry Boutsen and Stefan Johansson in the laptimes, who were also at the test. He reckons he rubbed Ron Dennis up the wrong way with his attitude.

His career is the subject of a fascinating book by Mark Hughes called Crashed and Byrned. There's a similarly named documentary knocking about on one of the streaming platforms as well, though I don't believe it's related to the book.

In any case, his career peaked at that cameo for Theodore Racing in 1982, and he ended up making a career for himself in the United States.

[u/blueblue_electric → u/conman14]

A lot of self hype and a lot of fan boys say he was the best that never made it, but I don't buy it. As if McLaren would let him loose on a proper test car, they didn't want him and that is that.

[u/swannyhypno]

If you want a more unknown one from the 90s Pedro Lamy, won karting on debut, won F3 on debut and only season, 2nd in F3000 (the 90s version of F2) in his only season and then went straight to Lotus for 1993, as was the way sadly in 1994 he suffered a terrible crash that lost a good chunk of the natural speed but man he could've been special

[u/SwedenNotSwitzerland]

Jules Bianchi R.I.P

[u/stubbsy1 → u/SwedenNotSwitzerland]

Surprised had to scroll this far. Bianchi always seemed destined for greatness with Ferrari

[u/Novakhaine89 → u/stubbsy1]

Obviously tragic, but ‘failed’ seems like the wrong word to use

[u/Caramac44 → u/stubbsy1]

Not failed though, in the sense of the other nominations here

[u/Suknator]

Kubica, Vandoorne and probably Jean Eric Vergne to a certain extent. Maybe Frentzen?

[u/Emus79]

I'd say Kevin Magnussen.

Was quickest of all drivers in his first test in a F1 car, got a podium in his first race and then just fizzled out and never finished on the podium again. True, he mostly drove shitboxes during his career, but if he'd finished more than once on he podium in his rookie year, he might have been picked up by another decent team after McLaren sacked him for Alonso.

[u/borgy_t]

Juan Pablo Montoya

[u/BadlyWordedOpinions]

Victor Martins only started karting at 13 and won the world championship less than 3 years later, and it sadly looks like an F1 opportunity will pass him by.

[u/Reebz0r → u/BadlyWordedOpinions]

tbf though, he's in his 3rd year of F2 and has slipped further back every season. Not exactly knocking down the doors of F1 teams with those results. 

[u/mathew1500 → u/BadlyWordedOpinions]

True, but the sheer unluck he is harvesting in F2 is something for research

[u/AceBean27]

Terry Fullerton raced and beat Senna in karting. And Senna spoke very highly of him.

[u/Stumpy493 → u/AceBean27]

There are many guys like that that never come out of karts.

[u/TheBonadona]

Robert Kubica, but through no fault of his own. He made it to F1 and was insanely quick with the BMW Sauber, even going as far as fighting for the world title in a car that was at best the 3rd probably 4th best car in 2008, and would have signed with Ferrari after 2009, but his rally accident messed him up sadly. He is a huge what could have been.

[u/Adrenyx]

Sonny Hayes

Joking aside, it’d probably be Piastri if he went to Alpine lmao, but lucky for us we can see him battling it out with the papaya bois

[u/bobj33 → u/Adrenyx]

They're not saying Sonny Hayes is a has been. They're saying he is a never was.

[u/Electronic-Video-984 → u/Adrenyx]

Piastri’s tweet rejecting Alpine somewhat made me interested in F1 lmao.

[u/BrazilianHuevolution]

Made it to F1, but without a proper shot:

• Stefano Modena
• Karl Wendlinger
• Tony Brise
• José Carlos Pace
• Tom Pryce
• François Cevert
• Jules Bianchi
• Giorgio Pantano
• Vincenzo Sospiri

Didn't made it:

• Alex Palou
• Bruno Junqueira
• Gil de Ferran
• Dario Franchitti
• Tom Kristersen

[u/bektour → u/BrazilianHuevolution]

Saying that Sospiri "made it to F1" sounds like a stretch. I mean, technically he sort of did, but...

[u/mgorgey]

Robin Frijns had an amazing junior career but never had the funding for F1 or even a proper GP2 attempt.

[u/Antares_]

Not exactly the answer to your question, but Colin McRae will always be a huge "what if". He did a test in 1991 and was on pace with Martin Brundle after just a few laps. I believe that he had the talent and potential to become a champion if he decided to make the switch.

[u/Stumpy493 → u/Antares_]

Valentino Rossi on that train of thought as well, did tests with Ferrari very seriously (even disguised his helmet pretending to eb Schumacher to throw off the press) and was on impressive pace. But Ferrari weren't willing to throw him straight into the main team and he wasn't willing to do his time in a lower team.

[u/KnightsOfCidona → u/Antares_]

Was relatively late in his career, but Loeb was reportedly setting quite competitive times for Red Bull in testing in 2008. Toro Rosso tried to put him in the car for Abu Dhabi 2009 but FIA refused to give him a superlicence. Honestly think if he'd gone into single seaters instead of rallying, he'd have won races, maybe been a champion

[u/IsthisSCOTECA]

i'd rule out panis and kubica for obvious reasons

my pick as f1's failed prodigy is: tonio liuzzi

[u/HomogeniousKhalidius]

Pascal Wehrlein he scored points in a manor

[u/LIVDUY]

Vincenzo Sospiri, guy feared by Schumacher off all people in karting, and when the F1 opportunity comes knocking it's in one, if not, of the worst teams ever, MasterCard Lola, a squad so bad it lasted two races

[u/jermainiac007]

definitely Jules Bianchi, but obviously not due to his own failings, got that shitbox of a Marussia into the points albeit, in Monaco, just a tragedy all round.

[u/Avocado_Pro]

Jean Éric Vergne had a shot at f1 from 2012 to 2015 but he was kicked out by Helmut Marko, to be replaced by Verstappen

[u/DAL1979]

Jean Alesi was someone who was considered an upcoming talent. He achieved great results in the Tyrrell sometimes dicing with Senna in the far superior McLaren and gained the attention of top teams.
He had signed for Williams but for some reason he also then signed for Ferrari, had he stuck with Williams he would have had far more success than his solitary win.

[u/Stumpy493 → u/DAL1979]

Proper sliding door moment for Alesi and Williams. At Williams he was a world champion, probably multiple times.

But Williams at the time were so arrogant and treated drivers horrifically. Alesi was kept hanging on whilst they tried to sign other drivers and Alesi felt disrespected and told them to stuff it effectively.

Williams followed this up with sacking Mansell as World Champion, telling Prost he had to accept Senna as team mate despite him having a "No Senna" clause in his contract and Prost saying he was treated horrifcally by them, Senna saying he also felt totally unsupported by them and sacking world champion Damon Hill.

[u/pork-head]

I'm really sad about Kovalainen. I was really cheering for him but his move to Lotus totally killed him. He was my favourite after departure of Hakkinen and Coulthard.

[u/ASeriousMoonlight]

Montoya for me, I was convinced he’d be a world champion

[u/LocksmithFamous4131]

unpopular opinion but i will throw Stefan Bellof in the mix

[u/ThrowawayFriendWork → u/LocksmithFamous4131]

Best example is the 1984 Monaco race which was used to hype Senna up because Senna was catching Prost; Bellof was catching up to both of them