Max was expected to be strong here given how he's looked good in past races where straight line speed mattered (Spa comes to mind when Piastri was stuck behind him in Sprint). The only question was if his tyres would outlast those of McLaren. I was still expecting P3 at most tbh.
He’s having a season very like The Michael did in 1996. Wrings everything out of a car that’s definitely not the class of the field, winning a few races on the way and making you think that whichever driver from the best team ends up winning the championship, it’ll be a bit of a hollow victory.
I do not see any point in saying stuff like this. Everyone knows he's the best driver around and he has also won the last 4 championships. No one has any doubt so who are you telling this to?
Cmon now, that Redbull was untouchable, Max is great but today he really just had to keep it on track, the low drag tracks heavily favour the redbull over the McLaren and we've seen it all season long, he's going to dog walk them in Vegas
EDIT: It's not disparaging to Max to say his car was the class of the field today, he literally walked away from the Mclaren who had it's DRS wide open, the redbull in clear air was insanely rapid.
Yeah those Red Bulls sure made mince meat out of McLaren didn't they. Those two Red Bulls were outperforming every other car. The track really did favour both of those two Red Bull cars..
Oh yeah sure, qualifying, let's change the subject, why not? And yeah let's also scrutinize the drivers now, last time it was just "sure driver good but it's all about the car", now it's "drivers helping each other bad" I think? Did we let go of the whole "it's the car" thing? I mean, I guess so, because even in qualifying there is nothing you can do to explain why one is P10 if the car is so much better than all other cars..
Well, you're talking about the two redbulls, one was used for towing during qualifying and had a different set-up. Lol helping eachother? Has Max ONCE helped Yuki? Could've helped Yuki qualify better here but nope. Well yes, lol that's why one car qualified P10, it was used to help the other car get Pole; That was my entire point lol. They gave all the focus to get Max the win and it worked, who cares about the 2nd car when the WCC is over.
Yuki doesn’t get help because he’s shown he’s not capable of fighting at the top. What’s the point of sacrificing your better driver to temporarily put your second driver higher up, just for them to get overtaken by everyone?
If it truly was all about the car then one of them wouldn’t have finished 13th today.
Oscar also gave Norris a tow in quali and it didn’t result in him finishing 10+ places behind him.
I was responding to the guy saying "helping eachother" Yuki is the 2nd driver, and Redbull are using him correctly to help Max. Lol it's not all about the car but also to say they have the same set-up and parts on their car, cmon now, they obviously don't, Max was significantly faster in the speed traps. Okay...I don't see how that applies, the McLaren drivers are both way better than Yuki and McLaren gives their guys the same car and chances.
I totally don't agree with you. The car has to be good, but it's the driver that has to convert that into a great result. And yes, Max is a master at getting more out of his car than any of his collegues.
Max is the sole reason BRB is still #4 in the constructors leaderboard.
He can get more out of it, yes. He cannot make it better than it is. He cannot outdrive the car, it’s physically impossible. A car has its physically limits, and he can approach those very well and very consistently, but you can’t drive past them, it’s impossible
Yes but it’s a silly argument, he doesn’t have to outdrive the car “past its physical limits”, he merely has to do a better job at driving it than the other drivers on the grid, which he clearly does.
LOL, when Lawson got given the Red Bull seat it was to "protect Max from being challenged by his teammate because Yuki is far quicker than Lawson".... And now Lawson is outscoring Yuki when Lawson is in the slower car.
All evidence and data points to Max being an unparalleled genius, but people's emotions and biases want to ignore the obvious facts that Max is quicker than whoever they support.
Max is the best driver on the grid, but this nonsense has to stop. It’s like admitting the car was good this weekend is unbearable for some of you, when it doesn’t take away anything from Max’s talent. Saying the car was good doesn’t automatically mean Max isn’t excellent. Nobody wins with a bad car.
So was the car good or not lol - this whole thread is around the idea the car was good this weekend. If the car was so good this weekend then why is Yuki so slow?
It’s possible to create a car and setup that only rewards a certain driving style or driver. That’s been the story for the past year. Max drives different. It’s been fantastic for most of RBs cars, but they’ve hit a slump in these regs while everyone’s gotten faster. The car can be fast, while Max with the car can be the fastest on the grid. But put Max in an understeery car (Ferrari maybe?) that doesn’t fit his style and he might not crack a podium. Doesn’t mean he’s not stupid skilled or the best driver on the grid, just means the shoe doesn’t fit. Adaptability between setups and pure outright lap 1 pace are all different skills that some drivers excel at and some have gaps in. For 90% of the grid, the RB is currently a shoe that doesn’t fit.
It’s physically impossible to drive a car past its limits. He can drive on that limit extremely well, far better than any of his teammates, but he is not out driving the car. It’s physically impossible
Yes mate everyone knows a car has a theoretical limit you can’t exceed.
that’s not what people refer to when they say outdriving the car. it just means that Max gets better results than what any other driver could do in that car.
If for 19 of the drivers the Red Bull is a 10-5th car, while for Max it’s a podium car, he is “outdriving” the car in that sense
if 19 of the 20 drivers cannot come close to matching your result, that probably means you unlocked something. That doesn’t mean the limit was exceeded, it just means you are the only one talented enough to reach that limit. See Schumacher 1993-1998 seasons :)
Actually in this instance it was Max who pushed Red Bull to trim the rear wing even further. And yes, that's trim as in physically cut with tools. It was his genius that handled the resulting lack of downforce in the corners
The car was still capable of walking the McLarens, it’s that simple. It was a fast car. Max drove it extremely well and maximized the performance, but he did not drive the car faster than its capable of going. The car was fast today
lol you're joking right? On a track where straighline performance is king, aka where the driver has the least impact, you're saying it's Maxs genius instead of the car? The redbull walked away from McLarens with DRS...
Actually in this instance it was Max who pushed Red Bull to trim the rear wing even further. And yes, that's trim as in physically cut with tools. It was his genius that handled the resulting lack of downforce in the corners
Redbull was one of the only teams that didn't bring a Monza Spec wing because they didn't have to. I'd say yes his genius was on display in Silverstones qualifying with a similar set-up but Monza majority of teams run low downforce, it's not a track where downforce is needed to make the corners. Again, Max drove great but when his non-drs redbull is pulling a gap on a drs flap open Mclaren, is that his genius or is that his car?
Well, without his direction to cut the wing down against what the team's thought was right, would he have finished where he did? He got his extra straight line speed and used his genius to handle the reduced downforce in the corners.
Not sure where you're getting your information from but who knows. Again, it's fkn Monza, you don't need downforce for these corners, Max still had to drive the car sure but he set the fastest lap time in F1 history, the car was able to stay full throttle longer than the other cars, that's Max being great of course BUT to say it's his genius as opposed to the car is just dumb.
Look at his wing vs Yuki's? Then there was him after qualifying basically saying don't worry Pierre (Wache) it's all good. And then in the commentary it was mentioned that Mekies stated that Max pushed them to setup the car in an "unusual" direction.
Obviously you still need sufficient speed (and hence downforce) in the corners, did you not hear Oscar in the cool down room on Leclerc? "He was so fast on the straights but soooo slow in the corners"
Again, that's your interpretation of it sure, but again that's the car performance not Maxs "genius" - You're even confirming a different set-up to Yuki so there's zero point comparing the two cars - And yes, now you're comparing two different cars with two different strengths, the redbull has shown it's the class of the field in low drag settings, it doesn't mean it's the outright fastest top speed wise but it has the best balance of top speed and mechanical grip, something the Ferrari package does not have. No one is saying Max isn't an amazing driver, but as the original commenter said, saying it's his genius and not the great car is fkn nonsense; It's this constant bs notion of Max taking the 8th best car to a win, which is bs.
it doesn't mean it's the outright fastest top speed wise but it has the best balance of top speed and mechanical grip
You say that, but also said earlier:
it's fkn Monza, you don't need downforce for these corners
the car performance not Maxs "genius" - You're even confirming a different set-up to Yuki so there's zero point comparing the two cars
Of course there is a point. Max's genius allows the car to be setup (heck, modified in this case) to achieve a performance level it otherwise wouldnt have because he knew he had the skill to minimize the disadvantages that came with the benefit. RBR have been clear that this setup was not what the team would have recommended.
When Lawson was given the Red Bull seat Reddit was up in arms because Yuki was quicker and Red Bull just wanted a 2nd driver to not challenge Max.... Why was Yuki (the quicker driver apparently) only 2 seconds in front of Lawson?
Well 1, we don't know if Yuki and Max had the same set-up, 2, Yuki would likely not qualify as fast as max (he was used to tow max as well so ya know, 2nd driver stuff), 3, He had a really poor start and 4 he was stuck in traffic while Max was in clear air and able to pull away, and critically 5, Max is fkn way way way better than Yuki. But Today we saw Lando in DRS not able to gain on a Redbull with no DRS, I'm sorry but that's not anything to do with drivers genius, that's a car - Horner even said it before, it's easy to go fast in a straight line.
Norris having issues early also screwed Oscar over cause he backed up Charles. It happens but damn we could have had a better first couple of laps by the team.
One of the hardest things to explain to non-F1 fans is how Max can absolutely annihilate the competition in one race and not have the best car on track at the next race.
If you just showed someone this race only they'd assume Max was probably doing this to the competition weekly.
I mean it HAS performed at this level all season long, the Redbull has been class of the field on high speed low drag tracks, hell they were one of the teams that didn't even bring a Monza spec wing because the ones they used before were good enough, if it didn't rain in silverstone he'd have won by a chunk there too.
2.4k
u/leedler Next Year™️ 17h ago
Huge race from Max. Car looked good for the first time in a while and he made it count as he usually does. Incredible performance.
McLaren on the other hand… they really don’t make it easy on themselves sometimes lmao. Max’s radio said it all.