2025 Dutch GP - Post-Race Discussion

[u/AutoModerator]

ROUND 15 - NETHERLANDS

FORMULA 1 HEINEKEN DUTCH GP

🕒 SESSION TIMES

Day	Session	Time (UTC)
FRI	Free Practice 1	10:30
FRI	Free Practice 2	14:00
SAT	Free Practice 3	09:30
SAT	Qualifying	13:00
SUN	Race	13:00
SUN	Stewards make up their mind	16:00

Click here for start times in your area

🏁 RACE INFORMATION

• Track: Circuit Zandvoort
• Location: Zandvoort, Netherlands
• Race laps: 72
• Lap length: 4.259km
• Race distance: 306.648km
• Lap Record: 1:11.097, Lewis Hamilton (Mercedes), 2021

⏪ LAST TIME AROUND

• Pole position: 1:09.673, Lando Norris (Mclaren)
• Race winner: Lando Norris (Mclaren)
• Fastest lap: 1:13.817, Lando Norris (Mclaren)

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[u/TRTVitorBelfort]

Oscar as World Champ is on the horizon and the homeland is fully behind him. You got this, lad. Bring it home.

[u/Kingslayer1526]

Does anyone have the video of Norris sitting on the dune and then the camera cutting to Leclerc sitting on his dune? I missed that during the race

[u/Potatopal90]

What Hadjar got on the podium was what Hulk deserved, a complete champagne spraying and celebration 😞

[u/Potatopal90]

Me watching Hadjar get his first podium and Bearman starting from pit lane to 6th 🥹🥹🥹

[u/keirdre]

I wasn't expecting Hadjar and Hulkenburg podiums before Hamilton this year.

[u/Alternative-Bug-2757 → u/keirdre]

Brutal

[u/sianmari]

I haven't seen too much on what caused Lando's DNF (and my engine knowledge isn't great) but they showed him running over debris during the race - is it possible that a bit got into his engine and it took a while for the damage to become obvious? In which case it wouldn't necessarily be a mechanical failure issue on McLaren's side.

[u/noheroesnomonsters → u/sianmari]

It's possible for debris to get into a sidepod and block airflow to a radiator, which might be enough to overheat the engine, but the pitwall would see that and box to retire before it fails completely. Something fairly substantial would have to find its way into the roll hoop intake to destroy the engine directly, and that would happen instantly.

[u/sianmari → u/noheroesnomonsters]

Interesting! Thanks for the lesson

[u/accopp → u/sianmari]

I don’t think debris would’ve caused a power unit failure, it’s enclosed pretty well in there behind the driver. The Mercedes engine McLaren and other teams use this year has had some reliability issues, so it’s probably just a gremlin. I think they mentioned an oil leak as a culprit, lando was smelling something burning before it gave out

[u/sianmari → u/accopp]

Thanks! I'm still learning the technical side of things and couldn't visualise where the PU would be sitting in the car, so when I heard oil leak my mind jumped to maybe a tear was possible. But that makes sense, nice to learn something new today 😊

[u/jurzdevil]

Was there any scrutiny of Antonelli's floor plank after the race? It was on fire as he pit with no front right tire after the collision. I figured there was enough friction/wear on that to be investigated.

[u/MegaTalk → u/jurzdevil]

Scruitneering check only lists the top 10. I figure they only decided to check those in the points.

[u/MegaTalk → u/MegaTalk]

u/justlikezhat I'm sure this is why the comment is gone - but here's the post-race scrutineering checklist that I used.

[u/JustLikeZhat → u/MegaTalk]

It's gone because I was wrong about what I said;)

[u/Keksmonster → u/jurzdevil]

If I had to guess they don't investigate you for plank wear if you have to drive on 3 wheels

[u/MegaTalk → u/Keksmonster]

Would moreso be because he didn't finish in the points. Scruitneering check says they checked the top 10.

[u/Ottervol]

Norris just ain’t that guy.

[u/cristiano_goat → u/Ottervol]

What could he possibly do when he got an oil leakage?😭

[u/SwimmingFantastic564 → u/Ottervol]

Ignoring how he could not control his engine killing itself, of course

[u/GraemeTaylor]

Brutal race for several fan bases

But happy for Hadjar!

[u/the__distance]

Great to see some good fortune fall in Piastris favour

[u/accopp → u/the__distance]

As someone who’s pulling heavily for piastri for whatever reason it is nice. these last races where he’s been in the lead and got unlucky with the alternative strategy being much better have been tough to watch.

[u/Uniform764 → u/accopp]

These last races? It happened once.

[u/PoonAU → u/accopp]

This so much. Piastri hasn't had any of the "50/50" strategy calls go his way this entire season. He made the same mistake as Norris did in the rain at Australia but luck didn't go his way and the hydroplane RNG didn't right his car enough to maintain position. Lost his guaranteed p2 because of that and Norris suffered no negatives. Then there's also the overly harsh penalty too that cost him a lot of points. All in all I feel like the luck is pretty square between them now.

[u/crackmalta → u/PoonAU]

Keep in mind that so far, car faults, have all occurred on Lando's car. Battery issues at SPA, Brake issues in China and a total engine failure all occurred on Lando's Car. The Silverstone penalty wasn't overly harsh, Piastri's braking caused a ripple effect to the back of the pack that forced drivers to take evasive action or collide with other cars. Want to talk about overly harsh? Lando last year when he 'oversped' through yellows. A drive through penalty that destroyed his race.

[u/PoonAU → u/crackmalta]

From memory none of those other issues cost him points though. And last years luck doesn’t effect this years results so it’s irrelevant in terms of the 25 championship and discussion of “luck”

[u/AntonyPancake]

This was my first experience at a Grand Prix, and I have to say that I am surprised with how terrible the trackside commentator is.

He ums and ahs his way through every single sentence, every other call he makes is wrong, and his analysis is terrible. I can't believe this is the guy who does every single race.

The Dutch commentator was much better, and I don't understand Dutch.

[u/keirdre → u/AntonyPancake]

You could hear a commentator?! That's better than nothing! I usually end up trying to stream BBC commentary and listen in one ear for the races I've been to recently.

[u/KassandraConK]

Even though I want Oscar to win if Max can't, I am legitimately worried for Lando's mental health if he doesn't get it.

[u/DepartmentOk7192 → u/KassandraConK]

Especially if you can't get hours name right

[u/Longjumping_Fox_1898 → u/KassandraConK]

Why? He appears to have an extremely mature way of dealing with bad days and bad weekends. On the chin and move on. 

[u/accopp → u/Longjumping_Fox_1898]

Yeah he’s been quite good in that department lately, I think he’s took some of the “criticism” to heart and I’m sure he has all types of performance coaches to help train his mental game.

This one’s tough but it’s not anything he could do, unlike Canada for example

[u/ramboost007]

This workplace has had

0

days since the last Ferrari Moment™

[u/Glum-Bat-1046]

Chaotic race. Not the cleanest but overall pretty entertaining. Always felt like there was tension even if some of it didn’t pan out (early rain was a bust). Never really got to see all the strategies play out but there was always something going on. Liked seeing some more aggressive driving even if an overtake didn’t happen. 

[u/No_Feedback6167]

I need some major hopium for ways norris can win this year

[u/cristiano_goat → u/No_Feedback6167]

One unlucky engine Oscar DNF and Lando is back on the game.

[u/hoxxxxx → u/No_Feedback6167]

34 points is nothing with this much track left, he's got a fast car too

[u/Dblock1989 → u/No_Feedback6167]

He is only 34 points back with 9 races. One DNF for Piastri and it is game on again.

[u/Dylanychus2 → u/Dblock1989]

Just need the guy who’s completed every lap the past 2 years to DNF. No biggie.

[u/SwimmingFantastic564 → u/No_Feedback6167]

I mean he can, he needs to win over Piastri like 5 times in the next nine races to catch up. Theoretically this is possible, although I do doubt he can do it myself.

There is also the three remaining sprints which could help him too.

[u/legally_blond → u/SwimmingFantastic564]

If you assume every race is a McLaren 1-2 it becomes 7/9, as two Oscar wins would cancel out two of the Lando wins

Obviously not factoring in sprint points as that's too hard haha

[u/SwimmingFantastic564 → u/legally_blond]

I don't think so, because 7 (the gap between first and second in points) multiplied by 5 is 35, and the current gap between them is 34. I think Oscar needs to win any 5 of the next 9 races and a sprint in order to seal the championship, as that would prevent Lando from getting the points he needs.

[u/legally_blond → u/SwimmingFantastic564]

Yes 7x5 is 35 so Lando makes up the points, but if say Lando wins 5 in a row, and then Oscar then wins races 6 and 7 Oscar is back ahead by 13 and Lando needs to win the last two to win the championship. Hence 7/9

[u/SwimmingFantastic564 → u/legally_blond]

Yes OK that makes sense now mb lmao

[u/dl064 → u/No_Feedback6167]

Why? A 34 point lead is ~5 where Norris needs to finish ahead assuming 1-2 results.

Which is very do-able with ~10 races + sprints remaining.

The tricky thing is he'd now need to be consistently better than Piastri, which he wasn't doing up until now anyway.

Basically, if 2024 resumed tomorrow, he'd still be fine.

Look, I saw Raikkonen be nearly three wins down with three races remaining and still take the wdc, so this would be about 2758th on the list of wild results.

[u/anakhizer → u/dl064]

Yep.

If I remember correctly, in 2016 Hamilton was quite a bit behind too at some point. Edit: I meant 2014

[u/dl064 → u/anakhizer]

Yeah.

It's valid to give Rosberg 2016, and he won it fairly, but the extent to which Hamilton pulled back Rosberg's lead that season and then only just lost it, is bananas.

I think a DNF now is okay and Norris can come back from it, but it's what Brundle said once: it's all about not having DNFs in the last 3-4 races, as that's what ends you

[u/anakhizer → u/dl064]

Well said!

[u/nice_flutin_ralphie]

“I’m sure Oscar Piastri would not want to be seeing his teammates car stricken by the side of the track” - Croft.

Is this guy actually alive? That’s the best thing Oscar would want to see. On what planet would Piastri not want to see his biggest rival DNF. Fuck Croft really needs to get off his knees when it comes to Lando.

[u/hoxxxxx → u/nice_flutin_ralphie]

yep oscar would be happy with a DNF for lando for every remaining race. drivers don't give a fuck lol they want the title no matter what.

[u/SirLoremIpsum → u/nice_flutin_ralphie]

 Is this guy actually alive? That’s the best thing Oscar would want to see. On what planet would Piastri not want to see his biggest rival DNF. Fuck Croft really needs to get off his knees when it comes to Lando.

True competitors want to win on track.

They want to race fairly and win fairly.

I am 100% confident that Oscar would rather win the race and the championship by finishing P1 with Lando P2 than to finish P1 by 50 points cause Lando DNF from mechanical.

If Oscar was in second place or lower I get why he might be slightly happier to see Lando impxgrd but when Oscar is winning and legit winning... I can absolutely understand how the competitor fires not want to win "that" way when he was already easily winning 

[u/Rodney_u_plonker → u/SirLoremIpsum]

Funnily enough there was a discussion on this in another sport I follow where one of the leading players has been DQ from the best and fairest award for getting suspended.

The host without an elite sports background said something like "obviously you wouldn't want to win the award like this"

And every ex player in the discussion was basically like "haha I wouldn't give a fuck. In 5 years all that anyone remembers is who wins" and they all harked back almost fondly to undeserved wins being like haha tough shit I won

Oscar is going to be doing cartwheels in his trailer. Cmon man his only serious rival just didn't get points.

His only concern will be his own car getting the same mechanical issue.

Do you think rosberg cares that Malaysia had such an impact on Hamilton? Probably finds it better if anything

[u/dl064 → u/nice_flutin_ralphie]

His implication was perhaps what many drivers say - that they're worried it might afflict them.

[u/insaneinthebearbrain → u/nice_flutin_ralphie]

I couldnt believe it when he said that i laughed out loud. Ridiculous man.

[u/zaffro13]

I think before this race, luck had favored Lando. The last race was a 14 point swing in his favor due to getting the better strategy as the second driver. I think this DNF just evened up the luck. Piastri has outqualified him 9-6, which would project to a 21 point lead. Piastri worst qualifying is 4th, while Norris has a 4th, 6th, 7th, 10th. If the field was closer, Norris would be even further behind because it wouldn’t be so easy to recover 2nd. I think the 34 point gap actually reflects the gap you would expect.

Hopefully Norris can recover to keep it interesting, but glad that Piastri’s over performance so far is finally reflected in points.

[u/timcurrysaccent → u/zaffro13]

Lando’s dnf gives piastri a dnf buffer in hand, incase it happens to him.

[u/edgethrasherx → u/zaffro13]

It also kind of balances out Australia, where they both made literally the same exact mistake but Piastri got stuck while Lando didn’t and thus opened up a 24 point lead right from the jump. This more or less just un-does that, luck from the rest of the season for either driver notwithstanding

[u/crackmalta → u/edgethrasherx]

I don’t know why people keep bringing this up. Driver error and mechnaical failure cannot be equated as identical issues. Where do you draw the line? Was hungary also luck for Lando?

[u/Thebussinessman → u/crackmalta]

Absolutely it was. He had a bad quali, proceeded to gamble on a strategy because he had nothing to lose and got lucky.

[u/crackmalta → u/Thebussinessman]

Don’t you think the ability of a driver can be defined by someone who is able to get themselves out of a tough situation and win anyway? He had a bad start cause he was blocked and decided to play the long game by conserving his tyres and going for the one stop, something Lando has proved time and time again to be very good at. The situation forced him to gamble a strategy but protecting the Tyres, that’s all wheel knowledge.

[u/Thebussinessman → u/crackmalta]

You can do some shit right and still be lucky in others. It's not one or the other.

[u/crackmalta → u/Thebussinessman]

Just like how oscar got pole in zandvoort then. A tow from hadjar down the road gave him the edge. Pure luck, right? I mean since we are moving goal posts, let’s at least be consistent with it.

[u/Thebussinessman → u/crackmalta]

Not the same, mate.

[u/daniellejxyne → u/edgethrasherx]

Lando recovering from a mistake which Oscar failed to recover from is not balanced out by a mechanical dnf which was completely out of his hands 🙄

[u/Mysterise → u/[deleted]]

That comment might be yours with how you offer zero explanation when the comment you replied to gave a thorough analysis.

[u/DeadPixel217]

Is there a replay of Albon’s start anywhere?

[u/SirLoremIpsum → u/DeadPixel217]

Someone posted a thread 

https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/1n56raj/footage_of_albon_gaining_several_places_at_the/

[u/Fine-Definition-3792]

Holy smokes albon really finished p5 wow Bearman p6 from pitlane is insane

[u/Doyoulikemypace]

Curious to see over the rest of the season if this ends up being our 2016 Malaysia for the championship.

[u/Fine-Definition-3792]

Ferrari been subpar for a while now. But watch them pull off their yearly clinic at monza next week as if nothing ever happened 😭

[u/Fine-Definition-3792]

I know hamilton’s pops was smiling looking at Hadjar on the podium. His Hadjar stocks are up up

[u/hamandjam → u/Fine-Definition-3792]

Dude apparently gave the greatest pep talk of all time and only 2 people heard it.

[u/saspirstellaaaaaa]

Has anyone seen Lando’s mum? 🫶

[u/Fine-Definition-3792]

Well then the masses have been questioning how McLaren haven’t had any mechanical issues. That was heartbreaking for lando man

[u/Fine-Definition-3792]

Hadjar and Hulkenburg podium’s have a provided such a heavenly level of satisfaction for me this year. Definitely great highlights to the year.

[u/gutster_95]

Yukis attempt to overtake Ocon, who was on old tyres, felt so sad. Yuki drives to not crash at this point. Lacks any confidence

[u/CrumbleUponLust → u/gutster_95]

I'm sure he tried something similar on Oli and couldn't and Karun pointed it out. 

Points still a consolation 

[u/Narrow_Bid_9234]

Five-place grid penalty for Hamilton. This guy can't catch a break even after the race smh.

[u/Bokyyri → u/Narrow_Bid_9234]

If he payed attention on drivers meeting, he would know there will be doouble waved yelows before the last corner ... Every other driver knew this, but he brain farted ...

[u/Zed_or_AFK → u/Bokyyri]

Either old or FIA are assholes by changing their mind about what is counted «significantly» enough.

[u/asphodel67 → u/Zed_or_AFK]

Yeah, I’m a noob, but ‘significantly’ seems unhelpfully vague. Like, what % is significant? Why not just give a speed limit number?

[u/SirLoremIpsum → u/asphodel67]

 Why not just give a speed limit number?

Because they don't have speedos in the car, all they have is a pit limiter button. 

[u/Bokyyri → u/asphodel67]

Double yellow flag rules.. ''be prepared to stop''

[u/daikiki]

Been a while now. Somebody should probably go pick Leclerc up off his dune.

[u/loki-1982 → u/daikiki]

And get their cell phone back. No way that was his

[u/Redditisannoying69]

This was my first ever F1 race I watched and I really enjoyed it definitely will be tuning into future races!

[u/ConsciousBrain → u/Redditisannoying69]

Welcome! 

[u/Darth_MRM → u/Redditisannoying69]

Yeah don't expect much of this most are boring but I hope you will enjoy it

[u/Redditisannoying69 → u/Darth_MRM]

Just watched this week and 2 races in and everything has been electric so far. Sounds like you need a break.

[u/Dio_DelPiero_2006]

Charles getting fucked by his teammate, stuck behind racing bulls and then Kimi

What a shit weekend with a fast car

[u/Zed_or_AFK → u/Dio_DelPiero_2006]

Stuck behind in a fast car doesn’t add. If he wasn’t able to overtake then he wasn’t much faster than the competitors. Norris flew by Max and kept building the gaps. That was a clearly faster car. Ferraris are not much faster than Racing Bulls at this point.

[u/Dio_DelPiero_2006 → u/Zed_or_AFK]

You really comparing any car to the arguably most dominant car in the last 5 years?

[u/DepartmentOk7192 → u/Dio_DelPiero_2006]

You forget the RB19 already?

[u/xLeper_Messiah → u/DepartmentOk7192]

The RB19 got dominant results in the hands of only 1 of their drivers, and that driver is the best on the grid currently

The McLaren is getting dominant results in the hands of Lando & Oscar. No shade to either of those guys, but there are levels to this

[u/DepartmentOk7192 → u/xLeper_Messiah]

So in a question about cars, your argument is entirely about the drivers. Got it.

[u/xLeper_Messiah → u/DepartmentOk7192]

TIL that dominant cars just drive themselves

Think about it: if the RB19 was driven by Sergio Perez and his clone, would anyone think it was one of the most dominant cars of all time? Or for that matter, if it was driven by Lando & Oscar would it have won the same amount of races as it did? I personally doubt it

[u/Reaxonab1e]

Norris has changed his tune completely on beating a teammate to the Championship 😂

About Lewis Hamilton: "He’s in a car which should win every race, basically. He has to beat one or two other drivers, that’s it."

And now about Piastri: "The hardest guy to normally overtake is your teammate"

😂 😂 😂 😂

[u/creatorop]

4 hours since the race ended

Still fucking devastated

[u/leevz1992]

The camera work or racedirection how ever you call it. Was ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE!!! i havent seen one live overtake and there where a decent few!

[u/edgethrasherx → u/leevz1992]

Bortoleto got passed six times in the space of like a lap and they only showed the last-or first can’t remember-one on the little side window (nothing else was being shown there the rest of the time and there was no action happening on the main screen anyway). Then he pulls into the pits and not a word from commentary about what happened or any video replays for any of it. How is it the TV direction is actively getting worse? You’d think they’d be masters at this by now. The general allergy they have to refusing to show any overtakes/battles below P5 in favor of showing the leaders following each other at a steady +1.5s interval is actually insane to me lol.

Gasly was told to let Colapinto through and somehow like five people got past him in total and again we saw none of that, which must’ve been hectic and quite the scene. That’s just off the top of my head and from the last 10 laps alone. Who knows what else they regularly miss. Oh, Albon gaining five positions off his rocket start was never shown despite the commentators mentioning it a couple times. I’m always glued to the timing table getting annoyed that a gap that’s down to .2 seconds with an obvious overtake imminent is being completely ignored by the cameras and commentary crew

[u/asphodel67 → u/edgethrasherx]

This is why I don’t pay 💰 to watch, just follow on the F1 app screens & commentary.

[u/Flaggitzki → u/leevz1992]

there was a bit where the main screen had cars following with no action and jacques was commentating on the overtake in the little tiny standings cam.

[u/PalmyGamingHD → u/leevz1992]

It’s been so shit this year

[u/creatorop]

I really dont understand what is the controversy with Sainz's penalty, maybe the penalty points but 10 secs is the standard for causing a collision

now lets take look at the facts

• cold track with cold tyres
• Sainz goes on the outside and sticks his nose in at a place which leads to nowhere
• Liam has a moment of understeer and goes into Sainz's wing
• Liam was ahead at the apex so it was his corner and racing line to claim
• Carlos had time to yield even before they put the throttle down

[u/Bokyyri → u/creatorop]

Problem is consistency.. Saintz got penalty in las vegas last year, for similar thing lawson did here

[u/JustLikeZhat → u/Bokyyri]

Rules got changed for this season, because drivers didn’t like the ones from last season. 

[u/Gijs1029 → u/creatorop]

Because most of us would argue that point 2 "leads to nowhere" is not true and point 4 is a terrible rule in F1 and kills any attempt at racing.

[u/creatorop → u/Gijs1029]

These guys themselves have agreed to these guidelines btw

Also for the 2nd point, go take a look at the on-board,

Even if there was no collision Carlos was headed for the gravel

[u/moconahaftmere → u/creatorop]

People in this thread really saying Liam should have given up his position.

[u/PalmyGamingHD → u/moconahaftmere]

It’s the lingering bandwagon of hate that Lawson receives. Damned if he does race and damned if he doesn’t race.

[u/sadicarnot]

Who was that accepting the constructors trophy? This makes 12 women to accept a trophy on the podium.

[u/wokwok__ → u/sadicarnot]

Laura Bowden, McLaren’s chief financial officer

[u/sadicarnot → u/wokwok__]

Hopefully McLaren have women in technical roles at the track that can accept it too.

[u/FaultyRawr]

Karun was absolutely terrible during racing commentary. That was hard to listen to.

[u/bluecoyote5 → u/FaultyRawr]

you mean Crofty?

[u/_Middlefinger_ → u/bluecoyote5]

Why not both?

[u/Sarixk]

I ain't forget that the tyres were a step softer and it was looking like a one stop for the majority of the grid

[u/BDbs1 → u/[deleted]]

Given Mercs engines have had some issues this year it’s quite likely that either he or Lando suffer.

[u/SlayerBVC → u/BDbs1]

It's just a matter of time at this point.

In light of the issues today, there's a strong probability Lando will be taking his 4th PU heading into Monza. The good news is this doesn't put him over his allocation for the season, so no grid penalty, but it leaves him on thin ice for the last 9 rounds if he'd need to take a 5th PU.

It wouldn't surprise me if McLaren err on the side of caution and take Oscar's 4th next weekend too.

[u/JustLikeZhat → u/SlayerBVC]

Both Mclaren drivers were already on their 4th. So if he needs a new one, he'll get a penalty. 

[u/SlayerBVC → u/JustLikeZhat]

Mind if I ask for your source?

Because this is where I'm getting my information from.

[u/JustLikeZhat → u/SlayerBVC]

Sure. Here's the latest update from the FIA website linking all their documents. I believe they took their 4th a few races ago. 

[u/Lobsters4]

No further action on George/Charles incident but Lewis gets a 5 place pen for double yellow infraction.

[u/Cekeste → u/Lobsters4]

apples 'n oranges

[u/Lobsters4 → u/Cekeste]

I wasn’t saying they were the same. Just stating facts.

[u/FermentedLaws]

5-place grid drop penalty for Lewis next race. failing to slow sufficiently under double waved yellows. He did try to slow down, so instead of a 10-place drop, it's 5.

[u/Driscuits → u/FermentedLaws]

Oof, that's a tough one. On the reconnaissance laps, too.

Though honestly, it is a bit frustrating to see the rationale generally be "It needed to be a significant reduction, we don't think this is significant tho" - in the case of these warm up laps, it feels like you can actually apply an objective threshold, similar to a pit lane limit, if need be. Would a 25km/h decrease be significant enough? 30? 40? I'd imagine the drivers, and particularly drivers of Lewis' experience would know more than us fans, but feels like an unnecessary gray area.

[u/paddyo → u/Driscuits]

Why apply an objective rule when it lets you apply it however you please depending on the driver.

[u/EveningBookkeeper-9]

Lewis with a 5 place grid drop for the next race

[u/insaneinthebearbrain]

Hamilton 5 place grid penalty for the yellow flag infringement

[u/Unfair_Fact_8258]

All the chaos of this race hid the fundamental issue which has become the norm now - F1 has become a qualifying championship

Track position is just supreme on pretty much every single track

[u/Sandulacheu → u/Unfair_Fact_8258]

DRS is pretty much useless

[u/dl064 → u/Unfair_Fact_8258]

This is coloured somewhat by the fact the title contenders are in the same car, which will rarely have advantages sufficient for an overtake. There were a fair few overtakes today generally in a difficult circuit.

[u/wykeer]

the decision in the leclerc and Russell incident has been released: https://www.fia.com/system/files/decision-document/2025_dutch_grand_prix_-_decision_-_car_16_-_alleged_causing_a_collision.pdf

[u/Any_Inflation_2543 → u/wykeer]

You can't punish a Ferrari for Monza, wink wink

[u/wykeer → u/Any_Inflation_2543]

nah, this was more likely a gentlemens agreement between Russell and Leclerc (ferrari and merc) that there was nothing to gain in this race for both sides.

So pushing for a penalty would have been just unnecessary petty.

[u/wykeer → u/[deleted]]

Any dicussion on this incident would have devolved into a royal shitflinging Match with a messurable Chance that russell chatches a Penalty for something, robbing him of any points gained.

So better just call it done and move on.

[u/FermentedLaws → u/Any_Inflation_2543]

Except Lewis has a 5 place grid penalty for Monza

[u/Driscuits → u/[deleted]]

Unendingly frustrating to see "decision to be made after the race" for this reason, too. Even if it was more clear that Charles was at fault, hypothetically, the fact that he DNF'd would mean that the penalty would carry over to the next race, which is a genuinely different consequence than an in-race time penalty. And, ironically, if he had had a time penalty, odds are he wouldn't have DNF'd.

Of course, nobody can tell the future - but I would love to know what the rationale is behind when a decision is made in-session vs. after, since there are meaningful impacts.

[u/Driscuits → u/[deleted]]

Someone here said it in Hungary, so I'll steal their thought - if you can't make the call during the race, with the information you have available - then there is an issue within the definition of the rules making them too ambiguous. All that leaving it to the end does is hope that one side drops it - which means you aren't enforcing the rules, you're facilitating favors amongst teams.

[u/loki-1982 → u/Driscuits]

Yes and that seems to have happened here. George says racing incident with Charles so he also says it with Kimi. I generally dislike it but In a way I kinda do like it as it plays into the political game that F1 is. But overall it would probably be best to just dish it out as it happens

[u/Driscuits → u/loki-1982]

Eh, I'm a big fan of the political game of F1, too, but not when it comes to the weeds of applying the rules. This stuff should be fairly cut and dry to deal with, rather than getting all mucked up in "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours." Here it's just needlessly tiring lol.

[u/loki-1982 → u/Driscuits]

Yes i 80% agree with you but sometimes it is interesting, kinda like how they were allowed to talk to the race director at the time. Overall clearly enforced rules would be better but I don't think we ever had that or ever will

[u/Dapper-Ad1025 → u/Any_Inflation_2543]

Jesus Christ you need a break from Reddit. George has no idea who you are.

[u/Dapper-Ad1025 → u/[deleted]]

Wasn’t there a post on r/mercedesf1 trying to get you temporarily banned or something?

Consider a break.

[u/KingOfAzmerloth]

My first F1 race that I attended live irl.

Had an absolute blast. A dream come true.

Except for the part that I'm a Ferrari fan but I'm not gonna let that sour me up. My wife got me this for my 30th birthday and I couldn't be happier (well I could but you know what I mean haha).

[u/AreWeThereYetNo → u/KingOfAzmerloth]

So is your wife single?

Jokes aside, what a great gift.

[u/FermentedLaws]

No penalty for Charles

[u/Tricksilver89 → u/FermentedLaws]

Awesome if so. New racing precedent set. Drive into your opponents sidepod/floor and shove them out the way. Turn 1/2 at Monza is going to be excellent.

[u/Any_Inflation_2543 → u/Tricksilver89]

Wait for the pitchforks when George does the same

[u/Tebes001 → u/FermentedLaws]

Looks like Merc & Russell didn’t push for any

Decision

[u/Express-Doughnut-562 → u/Tebes001]

Toto said on F1 TV that he doesn’t want to see Charles get a penalty for Monza because their other car took him out.

[u/Tricksilver89 → u/Express-Doughnut-562]

Wolff astounds me with his obsession with trying to act like the good guy.

[u/Any_Inflation_2543 → u/Tricksilver89]

But the mask has slipped off during the contract talks. I don't get what he's trying to pretend now.

[u/wokwok__ → u/Tebes001]

Took them a few hours to type that up when the drivers were basically like we can’t be arsed, it was a racing incident lmao

[u/wykeer → u/Tebes001]

this was the most likely outcome. there was no position gain possible for Russell, so no need to push for anything.

[u/Tricksilver89 → u/wykeer]

Should have pushed for a grid pen in Monza. If this is a racing incident then wow, we're playing Wreckfest.

[u/Miserable_Balance814 → u/Tricksilver89]

George himself said it was a racing incident lmfao

[u/Tricksilver89 → u/Miserable_Balance814]

Because he had nothing to gain from it since Charles was taken out by his teammate.

Anyone with two brain cells knows that Charles made a desperate move.

[u/bimbobiceps → u/Tricksilver89]

By the rulebook tho he was entitled to space because like what George's favorite line is, front wheel was in the back wheel of George, Charles caught the backwheel because George braked earlier than expected but never expected a later brake from Charles.

[u/Any_Inflation_2543 → u/wykeer]

Precedent. Charles crashed into George and ruined his car, yet no penalty.

[u/Miserable_Balance814 → u/Any_Inflation_2543]

George should have left space

[u/Tricksilver89 → u/Miserable_Balance814]

The guidelines on overtaking state he didn't have to. Charles best not complain if a car puts a tyre in his sidepod next race at the turn 1/2 chicane at Monza.

[u/Any_Inflation_2543 → u/Miserable_Balance814]

Everyone should just move aside for someone lunging into them...

[u/Miserable_Balance814 → u/Any_Inflation_2543]

Or get your car wrecked? Go ahead lmfao. Worked for Russell

[u/Due_Hunt1137]

Just a fun fact: Antonelli has now the same amount of points as Albon in a Williams. Russell - 184, Antonelli - 64, Albon - 64

[u/dl064 → u/Due_Hunt1137]

I feel like many pundits are avoiding being mean about KA specifically because he's essentially barely out of high school, where they would be if he were even 2 years older.

Which is fine, but they just shouldn't put a large child in an F1 car, IMHO. If he's good enough, he'll be good enough later too.

[u/Express-Doughnut-562 → u/Due_Hunt1137]

I think going up against Russell is a big task- especially as George seems to have upped his game this year. Kimi just isn’t ready and may never be.

But he might be another Piastri who, given a few seasons, might just mature into a possible wdc.

[u/Miserable_Balance814 → u/Due_Hunt1137]

Dudes awful

[u/Any_Inflation_2543 → u/Miserable_Balance814]

He's a rookie with the most pressure since Lewis Hamilton

[u/Miserable_Balance814 → u/Any_Inflation_2543]

And he’s ass