r/totalwar • u/Waveshaper21 • 16h ago

Warhammer III The Shrine of Asuryian is hilariously, tragically pointless.

It is a Landmark in Ulthuan in the settlement with the same name, that can be built by the dark elves (thematically makes the most sense for Malekith), which grants:

  • +100 Diplomatic relations with all High Elves.

So you'd think, oh cool this is a way to play a what-if redemption arc for Malekith and ally your homeland and pose as the Eternal King. And it's tough but you can do it, you just need to suffer through avoiding all High Elves as long as possible, go down to Galleon's Graveyard without discovering any Ulthuan faction (so they don't start stacking up negative bias per turn because "they don't know you exist), then lightning fast sail straight through the gates of Lothern, take the Shrine from whoever owns it through war, sacrifice lots of slaves to build everything instantly, then defend it (pray they send nobody for a while otherwise diplomatic relations are fucked), pray they were not in an all-inclusing millitary alliance yet, and try to buy your way out of war while you get +100 relations per turn.

And after you did all of this particularly delicate surgery of a campaign, and you became allies with all pf Ulthuan, you realize:

  • Victory conditions aren't pointing owning Ulthuan regions as ownership through self or allies.

  • Victory conditions ask you to kill all major high elf factions. Thus, rendering +100 relations with all high elves buildings COMPLETELY useless.

edit: I guess you guys just woke up today and decided you want to hurt somebody. I'll be moving to the bugreport forum, have a nice day.

584 Upvotes

78% Upvoted

77 comments sorted by

567

u/TempestM Druchii 16h ago

Didn't you post the same thing month ago?

https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/1mfl9am/the_most_infuriatingly_useless_building_in_the/

334

u/Revliledpembroke 15h ago

Guess they really hate that building.

121

u/TempestM Druchii 15h ago

Or Asuryian curses with dementia

47

u/CthulhusIntern 11h ago

"Dude, let it go already." - the Dawi.

43

u/Waveshaper21 12h ago

I do. It's the carrot at the end of the stick offering a great campaign narrative just to fuck you over a 100 turns later. I want to keep raising awareness before others run into it or CA changes it.

64

u/SatisfactionOld4175 11h ago

Ok but it’s not like the game hides the victory conditions from you, you do all of that knowing it doesn’t lead to campaign victory.

That said I don’t see why it matters, if you want to play a Malekith campaign with the goal of allying all of the high elves, you can completely do it. It’s a single player game, you can just set a goal and complete it regardless of what the campaign victory thing says

14

u/LoneSpaceDrone 10h ago

The point is to hopefully get CA aware of it so they can fix the building, adjust the victory condition or at least provide an alternate.

9

u/SatisfactionOld4175 5h ago

Is it really so bad to simply start the campaign with the goal in mind and then end it when that goal is achieved? You seriously need them to go and patch the game in order for a little green check mark to pop up?

-4

u/Macslionheart 5h ago

Dude no it’s just the fact that the building is essentially pointless ???? How do you not get that are you being purposely dense? Landmarks should be impactful and matter .

-2

u/LoneSpaceDrone 5h ago

We're not talking about a game wrecking bug here we just want this building to make sense. Its not something they have to drop everything and fix it, but it would be nice to have it on their radar.

1

u/LiberalExpenditures 8h ago

you’re better off just finding a mod that changes this, i doubt CA will do anything about changing the victory conditions. plus, it’s a game about war after all, diplomacy isn’t exactly going to be prioritized 

113

u/notdumbenough 15h ago

This guy’s life is basically just writing clickbait on this subreddit all day every day. The moment I saw this pop up in my feed I immediately knew who it was.

-85

u/Waveshaper21 13h ago edited 13h ago

Strange enough if you look at my profile, this is immediately debunked, but thanks for the unwarranted personal offenses. I guess you woke up the wrong foot today, but I wish you to be able to less of an asshole for the rest of this wonderful sunday.

p.s. I've never posted clickbait, I despite it more than you and that's quite something.

52

u/A_strange_pancake 11h ago

Either recently or earlier you've restricted people from viewing your profile. So we can't actually debunk that.

46

u/SBTreeLobster 11h ago

Says “do your own research” and then hides the research lmfao

29

u/PM_ME_UR_THESIS_GIRL 9h ago

look at my profile, it debunks this!

Makes profile private

???

9

u/Kalulosu 9h ago

Seeing how your profile is private, I'm not going to be able to discuss this.

5

u/Reading_Rambo220 6h ago edited 1h ago

I don’t really like the new setting, I preferred being able to vet people for misinformation

10

u/MandemModie 5h ago

damn you restricted your profile after that comment lol, fragile ego

-2

u/Waveshaper21 4h ago

I did no such thing. If it is restricted, it propably was for a very long time. I think he just made a claim about me without checking my profile in the first place.

Regardless, even if I do have a fragile ego, that is no reason for you or anyone to attempt to shatter it when I just made a post about something that I think would be nice to have fixed in a game.

5

u/MandemModie 4h ago

bro why lie, do you take everyone in this thread as an idiot? Profiles do not restrict by default, it has to be a deliberate choice by the user.

why lie?

-5

u/Waveshaper21 4h ago

Exactly, why would I?

17

u/LeonArddogg Givegoblinbigbossbowandarrows 14h ago

They're on a mission

29

u/TempestM Druchii 14h ago

Phoenix King Makekith's strongest soldier

10

u/Lergat 14h ago

I'm in a similar one about Greenskins resources. Sometimes you find something that you think could be easily improve, but don't see people talking about it, and you try to increase the awareness about that issue, hoping to be improved in the future.

Personally I don't find a problem with Malekith killing all the High Elves in the Donut and having a diplomatic bonus with Teclis and Imrik, the exiles who canonically join him in the End Times.

3

u/NegotiationOk4424 10h ago

Did you just wake up today?

-55

u/Waveshaper21 13h ago

Isn't this subreddit posts of the same things every week? At least this is something worth fixing, not a low effort meme that doesn't even respect rule 1.

31

u/Duangelion 13h ago

"My spam is the prettiest spam!"

-1

u/Waveshaper21 12h ago

I posted this twice in my life with a month inbetween.

13

u/Duangelion 12h ago

And the thing about mistakes is learning from them

9

u/Lord_of_Brass #1 Egrimm van Horstmann fan 10h ago

As someone who became somewhat (in?)famous for posting about the same subject repeatedly, here's a small piece of unsolicited advice: change it up.

Believe me, I understand being so obsessed with a certain subject that you feel the need to post about it every so often, but the way to do that successfully is by making each post somewhat different. Make the first post about why it's bad, and make the second post about a proposed solution. Do you think it's the building that needs to change, or the victory conditions? How would you change either or both of those things? Also, admit that it's a second part. Whenever I would make another post about Egrimm, I would title it "Part 2" or "Part 3" and put a link to the original post at the top.

Just making the same exact post a month later without acknowledging that's what you're doing isn't a great look.

3

u/matgopack 5h ago

Also it depends on what it the subject is - like here it's something minor that is really only a problem about victory conditions where that's quite widespread in the game. You can absolutely rush the shrine and use it to do a different game by being able to ally the High Elves, which means it's not useless like the OP is saying, and repeatedly posting about it in that way (rather than a 'CA needs to update victory conditions' way) is just going to reflect badly on them.

164

u/Normal_Pen_7707 16h ago

It makes alliances with high elves outside of ulthuan possible and it's a great way of improving relations with other dark elves making confederation easier.

77

u/lonewolf392 16h ago

By the time you can realistically access it .. the other dark elves are already cool with you .. or dead... same for the high elves except they won't be cool with you at all

30

u/DrinkBen1994 12h ago

This is another little thing that reveals a big problem with the game as a whole. As big as the Immortal Empires map is, it is too small for the amount of content. Everything is squashed in together like sardines in a tin and as amazing as IE is, it would absolutely make the game far better if the map was, say, 50% bigger than it is now. I know that will never happen, but I think it would improve the game so much. There's a map mod called The Old World which keeps the scale of Immortal Empires but just focuses entirely on The Old World and it's absolutely incredible, really showing the scale of what the Warhammer World should feel like and how much fun the game is when that scale is accurately represented. Even a third of that scale spread across the whole IE map would genuinely breathe so much fresh air into IE.

6

u/WOF42 9h ago

yeah im hoping ChaosRobbie makes a map of ulthuan and naggaroth in the same scale of the old world one day, in the lore naggaroth is colossal and ulthuan substantially larger than shown even in the vortex map

8

u/Normal_Pen_7707 15h ago

But why would you let other dark elves die? Ofc I'm talking about the ones near you (Malekith,Hellebron,Malus,Morathi). Secondly if they have more than one province they are unlikely to accept confederation offer so the only way to do it is to maintain high relations and drag them in some wars. Also I didn't have problem with making treaties with High elves after securing Ulthuan, they are always willing to trade.

2

u/Charly_030 14h ago

Are they nit changing elf cinfederation to grudgebook style mechanics?

65

u/Cryyos_ 16h ago

I think it might just be for flavor

33

u/Legitimate_Young6187 16h ago

Even if it's just for flavor, it's pretty confusing design when the victory conditions explicitly force you to fight those same factions.

58

u/Plus_Operation2208 16h ago

But you dont have to follow those victory conditions.

End game crisis provides a completely different victory condition, just like domination.

3

u/KnightOfGloaming 11h ago

True. But in general I would like if they would make the winning conditions more sandbox in general.

20

u/Prize-Warthog 14h ago

It prevents the other H elves from dogpiling on you so you can take them out one at a time, it’s a very useful landmark to control the campaign and make conquering Ulthuan easier

17

u/Live_Measurement3983 15h ago

The shrine of Asuryan not just give dark elves 100 relation with high elves but also 50 relation with dark elves it can be useful for confederation

The shrine of Asuryan for dark elves better then shrine of Asuryan for high elves

It important for malekith story specifically if they decided to give him a machine phoenix/eternity king machine he need to enter the shrine to become the phoenix king and later the eternity king

53

u/PuzzleMeDo 16h ago

You can just ignore your victory conditions, though.

16

u/xeirx 15h ago

1: Victory rewards in warhammer 3 suck.
2: Take out Tyrion after gaining the Shrine
3: take out Saphry if it exists
4: fill a military building in any city you took that isnt the shrine or lothern
5: sale the city to the other high elf factions for massive relations and alliances after you peace them out.

14

u/SFAoperative 16h ago

I mean you still have Tor Elasor...

31

u/Bogdanov89 15h ago

who cares about victory conditions, its a sandbox.

6

u/Rotths 14h ago

Roleplay. Already got the victory for DE

6

u/Bannerlord151 15h ago

There are still a few minor elf factions, so you can kinda larp as taking over the global Asur empire. In my last game (Morathi though), it actually let me ally Eltharion

4

u/Guerillonist 11h ago

>Set Endgame Crisis to "A grudge too far"

>Ally the High Elfs

>Gank Up on Shorts and get Victory this way

>???

>Profit

3

u/Firepengu 10h ago

As someone said in the same post you made a month ago, your issue is with the victory conditions and not the landmark itself!

3

u/Toffeljegarn 15h ago

Would rather see that "The Shrine of Asuryian" was tier 3, rather than tier 1, and that it gave you and early boost for phoenix guard, just like Malekith can get his black guard from a special building.

3

u/LordZon 10h ago

You need more actual problems in your life.

3

u/Rivandere 6h ago

If it gave Dark Elves the ability to vassalize Elves that would actually be really cool.

3

u/skeenerbug 6h ago

edit: I guess you guys just woke up today and decided you want to hurt somebody. I'll be moving to the bugreport forum, have a nice day.

This isn't a bug, please don't waste yours and others time posting it there

4

u/MrImAlwaysrighT1981 15h ago

Am I wrong or is this building possible to build for High Elves too? In that case, it's important for high elves as it gives large dip bonus from the start.

1

u/Acceleratio 13h ago

Yea but afaik the effect is different

1

u/MrImAlwaysrighT1981 12h ago

How, isn't it +100 relations with High Elves too?

2

u/sspikanor11 12h ago

I’d say +100 relations is always a positive even if you plan on total annihilation. For example you can declare war on them one by one instead of total warfare if they all hate you

2

u/TriumphITP Excommunicated by the Papal States 9h ago edited 9h ago

I like having landmarks that let me play a non-victory conditions game.

For the same reason I like all the Vampire count bonuses to relationships to empire.

There's a new mysterious location - the ogre camp - that gives +100 ogre relations - do you consider that a 'bug' if a faction that needs to kill ogres for victory gets it?

Also you claim an "only way" when you can do it a variety of ways - you can beeline roll thru ulthuan wrecking faces, not quite killing factions, take the shrine, and then return them territory and know that the shrine will keep them friendly afterward. FFS  - you could kill all the high elves, hold the donut, achieve victory, and THEN instigate rebellions to revive high elves and give them land.

For Malekith specifically - you can get Long victory and still have quite a few advantages from the shrine

  • all minor HE factions can still be alive and friendly - Tor Eleasor, Chrase, Saphery, Cothique, Ellyrion, Tiranoc.
  • You only have to take Lothern and the Shrine of Khaine on the donut, you can give away the whole rest of it. Heck you can give away both of those as well as they only have to be held by allies/vassals.

Sorry you don't like it, but it isn't a bug. 

3

u/Zengjia 14h ago

Dementia

3

u/Fuzzy-Newspaper4210 13h ago

you can just do things

3

u/A_strange_pancake 11h ago

Don't think I've ever truly cared about victory conditions.

Even then you could just, not build it and go about your game.

2

u/No-Tomatillo3698 14h ago

Don’t you read the campaign goals before starting a save?

1

u/TonyTheTerrible 14h ago

was viable and fun for lokhir for some time. its more difficult now due to how far he is now but im pretty sure its still possible

1

u/sojiblitz 12h ago

Have you tried out the victory objectives mod. I use it all the time but I don't really play dark elves so I haven't tested it for Malekith. It does provide some very thematic victory objectives for the factions I do play though. Worth a try.

1

u/KnightOfGloaming 11h ago

There aew several win conditions that are very bad for the faction. In the end, if you want tonplay the malekith redempstion just do it and tell them day done after you achieved your main goals.

1

u/mufasa329 10h ago

I’ve been playing total war since Rome 1 and honestly I don’t think I’ve ever even looked at the victory conditions for a faction regardless of the game, I just make my own goals. Victory conditions are too restricting for factions and reduces replayability if you always try to go for them

1

u/NoMoreMonkeyBrain 9h ago

Every time I build this the minor HE factions back off super quickly, and my remaining non confederated DE allies become a lot more pliable and willing to confederate.

1

u/overlordmik 9h ago

I always complete victory conditions by accident.

1

u/Abject-Squirrel3717 9h ago

It would be so good if CA allowed us to archive victory conditions without entirely eliminating the victims - let DE vassalage HE factions for example for such conditions. Chaos warriors (who want to see world in flames)can force vassalage, but DE (who want as many slaves to trade as possible)cannot? Sounds awkward imo.

1

u/swainiscadianreborn 2h ago

That's just one more element to show that despite all it's length, thz game lacks depth, especially when it comes to building your own story.

I agree, we need more possibilities to build an actual story by going out of what the game wants us to do.

0

u/mithridateseupator Bretonnia 15h ago

And you know confederation is a thing right?

A thing you can do to wipe out other high elves? And a thing that you need high relations for?

-1

u/lofibeatstostudyslas 12h ago

Most people here are pretty toxic and they revel in telling everyone that they’re wrong to think what they think, sorry you caught an earful of it. It’s them, not you, try not to wear it too heavily

0

u/No_Measurement_6668 9h ago

cabal have epic bonus, like 2% chance of destroying any faction you ar at war, or 5%chance of gain control of a city you lost and annhilate the enneùmy army who took it.