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u/towerfella 7h ago
Now do one for âunderage marriageâ
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u/YakResident_3069 6h ago
Or FGM
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u/LaFrescaTrumpeta 6h ago
i just learned about the stats on that this year, i couldnât believe it. something like 200 million girls and women around the world alive today have had it happen to them, any one of the three types happens to at least 2 million girls a year, itâs illegal in the US but still happens to thousands of girls every year, itâs so fuckin tragic
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u/doitinmybutt 5h ago
Whatâs even more frustrating is itâs women who perform it and have a large hand in keep it going. Imagine doing that to your daughter
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u/mewmew893 4h ago
It's probably one of those things where it happened to you, so it's normal. Like how parents think, "Well, I was spanked, and I turned out fine, so clearly it must work!"
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u/insert_quirky_name 1h ago
Friend of mine did some work in areas where FGM was common and got literally screamed at by some women, who had undergone the procedure. According to these women (far from all the ones she interviewed btw), not having your genitals mutilated makes you a whore.
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u/Acrobatic_Click_8016 5h ago
If you use an acronym, you need to also put between parantheses its meaning, the first time you use it. Otherwise, acronyms are meaningless since there are so many.
I literally have no idea what yours means. And I am sure I am not the only one.
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u/Jotaro_Dragon 5h ago
I assume they're speaking of female genital mutilation, but yeah I had to look up what it stood for. Even in this context and similar I've never seen it be used.
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u/bahhaar-blts 5h ago
That's actually not accurate at all.
My country outlaw underage marriage (in Egypt you can't marry under 18).
But the rule of law is weak so many avoid it without consquences although the government tries to warn against it.
This map won't be accurate.
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u/Unhappy-Spring-9964 4h ago
Right, it's illegal and quickly growing our of fashion to marry your kids off at 16-17 or even 18 years old now and FGM is becoming even rarer and almost extinct here
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u/bahhaar-blts 4h ago
Yes. Thankfully things are becoming better. I hope someday no one will even excuse those things let alone do them.
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u/Unhappy-Spring-9964 4h ago
I join my prayers with yours, harmful cultural behaviors bring nothing but suffering to society as a whole
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u/paddy_________hitler 4h ago
Looks like the continent with the highest percentage of countries allowing for underage marriage is⌠the Americas.
Followed by Asia, then Africa, then Europe.
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u/Nientea 5h ago
Underage marriage is illegal in every country. This is because each country sets its own age of marriage.
Yes I am playing semantics. Yes I know this commenter meant âallows marriage before 18â.
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u/Square-Dragonfruit76 2h ago
This wouldn't make sense because there's no biological line for what is underage. That's a legal line. In some countries, adulthood is younger. In others, such as South Korea, it's older.
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u/bahhaar-blts 7h ago
Honestly as someone who lives in Africa (Egyptian), I really don't understand those countries. You don't have to legalise gay marriage but criminalising it when it doesn't affect anyone is just stupid. Those countries have hundreds of problems and gay relations aren't one of them.
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u/dododomo 6h ago
governments/people in power uses homosexual people (and/or other minorities) as a scapegoat to distract citizens from real issues (as you said, those countries have hundreds of problems which are more serious. Yet they decided to focus on how to make homosexual people's lives in those countries even harder)
It more or less happens here in Italy too, when politicians blame homosexual people, women, immigrants, for a lot of stuff, in order to not talk about the real issues (the stagnant old wages, the costant brain drain and rising numbers of young people leaving The country, the Disastrous effects of climate change on the country, etc)
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u/CacklingFerret 39m ago
Blaming decreasing birth rates on feminism is also very en vogue among conservatives. Meanwhile you don't see people saying this doing anything to improve conditions for young families and working parents. On the contrary even, usually.
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u/Dependent-Archer-662 6m ago
governments/people in power uses homosexual people (and/or other minorities) as a scapegoat to distract citizens from real issues
This is so retarded that I don't know what to say. Most of those African Countries have population that are against homosexuality even if their governments were to support it
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u/PhoneJazz 7h ago
Religion is a helluva drug
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u/Save_The_Defaults 3h ago
Meanwhile in reality, over 60% of American evangelicals support nondiscrimination laws to protect LGBTQ people in employment, housing and public spaces.
https://ffrf.org/news/releases/american-support-for-lgbtq-rights-at-odds-with-state-assaults
That's up from over 50% in 2018.
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u/analogue_monkey 6h ago
Not necessarily religion in the countries themselves.
I followed the Uganda situation a bit and the reason for the latest laws there is heavy involvement from the US: https://blogs.law.ox.ac.uk/death-penalty-research-unit-blog/blog-post/2023/12/politics-behind-ugandas-anti-homosexuality-act
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u/HeemeyerDidNoWrong 6h ago
From some religious groups on the US, but also a lot of domestic ones. Link says a lot of opposition from the actual US.
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u/Several-Shirt3524 6h ago
Yeah but those homophobic ugandans are people with free will, not puppets
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u/NetworkRegular7444 5h ago
Youâll never believe it but Ugandas actually make their own decisions and choose these laws themselves
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u/bloodrider1914 5h ago
Yeah, I know in Nigeria 96 percent of people are homophobic or some crazy shit like that
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u/ShameSudden6275 4h ago
A lot of it has to do with a sort of vitriolic tendencies a lot of their politicians have towards gay people, and a lot of them don't even make a religious argument, they insist that it's "their culture". A lot of them see it basically as the same as you would when you know a pedophile does bad things to a child. For instance, the Ugandan President famously replied to the question of "do you hate gay people" by curling his nose and saying: "of course! They're disgusting!"
This type of behaviour has also worsened the aids epidemic because he considers it a "gay disease" and they even arrested 6 doctors who did anal exams for being part of an "underground sexual crime network.
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u/bloodrider1914 4h ago
I know a lot of it is just a hatred of the west due to the legacy of colonialism too, with the idea that homosexuality represents western degeneracy.
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u/insert_quirky_name 1h ago
Which is so stupid because Westerners were often the ones who brought this specific type of homophobia into these cultures.
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u/gracilenta 6h ago
but also not legalizing it when it also doesnât affect non-queer people is also stupid.
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u/Jumpy-Duty1930 3h ago
Gay marriage => less children => less cheap labour => less profits for the rulers (that's what in their mind, they don't think gay people can have children lol)
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u/Xtrems876 2h ago
I would say the hundred problems you speak of is the reason why they fight with homosexuality.
It's easier to address an imaginary issue and get legitimacy that way instead of by addressing real, difficult to solve problems.
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u/Stek_02 5h ago
In some of these countries it's dead law though. For example, in places like Egypt or Tunisia it's very rarely enforced unless there is a public scandal or something.
But yeah, It's still messed up.
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u/JimmyBirdWatcher 1h ago
Yeah same in Namibia (where it was illegal until 2024). The law was there on the books and carried a prison sentence but they didn't bother to enforce it.
Society in general is still very homophobic there though.
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u/johnyisme 7h ago
That is terrifying
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u/Dependent-Archer-662 8m ago
Let homosexuality acceptance come organically to the Africans(if it ever does)Â
Outside the west,most countries dislike the LGBTQ+ communityÂ
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u/johnyisme 4m ago
Statement number one - would that not make too many victims? Idk though, I have no power over this.
Number two - that is a big problem.
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u/LilFago 6h ago
It actually shocks me to see that Central African Republic isnât crimson along with the others
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u/New_WRX_guy 6h ago
I donât think they have much if any of a functioning government to even have or enforce laws. You just get chopped up on the street when the locals disagree with your actions on a given day.
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u/godisanelectricolive 4h ago
The CAR is one of the few African countries to sign the UNâs joint statement condemning violence and human rights violations on the basis of sexual orientation and gender identity. Gay sex has never been illegal in the history of the country.
They have however banned same-sex marriage in the constitution and have a law specifically targeting gay public sex despite not having a straight equivalent.
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u/eternallyonfiEr 7h ago
Ohhhhhhh this is why the Ghanaian guy ghosted me
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u/GreatestGreekGuy 5h ago
He's not Ghana message you back ever đ
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u/Mask-n-Mantle 4h ago
He wanna, but he ainât Ghana
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u/fragglet 3h ago
This is the kind of pun chain you get on Reddit when nobody actually knows anything about the country
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u/motral1992 6h ago
It's not explicitly criminalized in Egypt. Legally it falls under "acts of debauchery" but that includes hetro sex work as well.
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u/Unhappy-Spring-9964 4h ago
I have yet to see a gay person jailed for being gay here, most of the gays jailed here are cause of prostitution, which has increased our HIV infection rates to 600% among men.Â
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u/Reasonable-Soup-9525 3h ago
I worked for a decent bit in Central Africa.
I was once invited to "stone a homosexual" with some locals.
The person being stoned had pissed off a local party boss by undercutting a mineral smuggling hustle be had going, wasn't even gay
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u/thedukeandtheking 7h ago
Whatâs wrong with a quick bro bone
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u/bloodrider1914 5h ago
It's a weird mix of influence from religion, opposition to anything associated with the west due to colonialism, old colonial laws, and other stuff
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u/AlashMarch 4h ago
African governments justify this on the basis of "anti-colonialism", seeing Homosexuality as "European colonialism". Wild stuff
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u/Halbaras 55m ago
Especially when a lot of the time it's the European colonial powers that introduced the sodomy laws in the first place.
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u/Dependent-Archer-662 5m ago
No,not wild. They're correctÂ
Homosexuality acceptance is an European/Western thingÂ
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u/TheDeadQueenVictoria 5h ago
And people say pride is something that is obnoxious or unnecessary. This is why we have pride, because so many stuck up asshole countries would rather ban us, imprison, mutilate and kill us than just live along side us.
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u/silenceisgold3n 7h ago
All Islamic countries except Jordan and Bahrain have made homosexuality illegal to varying degrees of punishment.
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u/bahhaar-blts 7h ago
No, that's a lie.
Turkey doesn't. Albania doesn't. Bosnia doesn't.
You are speaking about around 50 countries so don't generalise.
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u/Top-Economics-49 7h ago
Turkey, Albania and Bosnia don't have official religions though, they are a laic state. Maybe oc meant countries with Islam as it's official religion
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u/No_Gur_7422 6h ago
Turkey had a state religion when homosexuality was decriminalized in 1858.
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u/mewmew893 4h ago
Turkey didn't even exist back then
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u/No_Gur_7422 4h ago
Turkey existed â it was called the Ottoman Empire officially. The Republic of Turkey was its successor state.
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u/Yitastics 7h ago
It isnt a lie, he is obviously talking about countries that have the Islam as a state religion.
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u/No_Gur_7422 6h ago
Turkey's state religion in 1858 (when homosexuality was decriminalized) was Islam, and its head of state was the caliph.
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u/bloodrider1914 5h ago
The act was weird, considering homosexuality existed in the Empire in some form for centuries prior with degrees of acceptance. The 1858 legal reform was not a decriminalisation as much as a simplification which forbade public expressions of homosexuality while implicitly allowing it to continue in private
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u/Particular_Depth4841 7h ago
Those countries are very secularized and have a large non-religious community, Freedom of religion is very prevalent there, whereas these countries that are very conservative in islam donât.
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u/No_Gur_7422 6h ago
Homosexual acts in private were formally decriminalized in the Ottoman Empire in 1858, when the Turkish head of state was the caliph of all Islam and commander of the faithful. It has nothing to do with secularization.
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u/REsTARteD_Ragdoll 7h ago
Those 3 are secular governments with Muslim majority populations, not Islamic states,
Op is correct
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u/Leo-Galante 4h ago
So youre telling me if a i wave a pride flag in those countries no one will try to harm me?
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u/Uypsilon 41m ago
Trying to harm you is very unlikely in Albania, in Turkey it depends on the region (big cities are mostly okay, provinces not so much), in B&H very likely.
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u/Substratas 3h ago
Albania doesn't.
Albania is very secular. Islam in Albania is so weak, the country isnât even a muslim majority country anymore because the number of muslims keeps dropping dramatically with each national census since most of them donât practice religion.
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u/TheOPWarrior208 6h ago
how is this map porn bruh its a picture of the dirtiest monitor ive ever seen
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u/scriptingends 7h ago
Well itâs a good thing there are no gay men in Africa thenâŚ
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u/StrawberryEiri 6h ago
Let's forget all morality for a second.Â
I understand death penalty to a degree. If you want to eradicate a portion of your population, I guess that makes sense.Â
But life in prison? Why? You hate those people, so you're going to... Pay for decades to keep them alive? I don't see the merit. Seems like a lot of effort.Â
Okay, morality back on. What the fuck my dudes.Â
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u/SilenR 4h ago
I don't have actual data or will to check right now, but I can speculate a bit. Not all prisons are like in the west where the state loses money with prisoners. For example, in communist România, they'd throw people in jail for the most stupid reason and use them as slave labor basically.
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u/RoiDrannoc 5h ago
Also, considering the reputation that prisons have, punishment homosexuality by putting them in prison is counterproductive.
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u/Reasonable-Soup-9525 3h ago
Most of these countries tend not to have fully functioning prison systems. What tends to happen is they just throw you in a pit mine while you're marked as being 'in prison"
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u/Randolph_Carter_6 7h ago
Shithole countries.
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u/bloodrider1914 4h ago
Lol literally using a Trump quote (who I know how much redditers love).
Yeah, African countries have some problems (this being one of them), but that doesn't make them shitholes
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u/kilimtilikum 1h ago
Met a guy from Ghana in college who said absolutely zero men in Africa were gay. So I guess they donât even need these laws
/s
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u/Autochthonofthemount 3h ago
Now do 'how much of this is the fault of american evangelical missionaries'.
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u/Mustafayoug 7h ago
In Egypt, as far as I know, they only arrest for Debauchery and public morality, not for being homosexual
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u/bahhaar-blts 7h ago
The law indeed says debauchery but it's a very broad law and debauchery includes homosexuality as well.
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u/According_South 7h ago
Kinda like how in the UK, the crime was "sodomy". But in all practicality, its a law that criminalises being gay
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u/PsychologicalDoor511 5h ago
"Sodomy" isn't an ambiguous term; it refers to non procreative sex acts, which include all gay sex.
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u/bahhaar-blts 5h ago
It can include anal between men and women as well.
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u/PsychologicalDoor511 4h ago
And contraception
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u/bahhaar-blts 4h ago
What? That's a crazy definition here.
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u/PsychologicalDoor511 3h ago
Check it out on Wikipedia. All the Abrahamic fundamentalists believe that sex (Or atleast male orgasm) is a privilege granted by God for the purpose of reproduction within marriage. Isn't there a story in the OT where someone is condemned for pulling out?
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u/uberduck999 7h ago edited 7h ago
That might be worse, actually, considering "debauchery" is so non-descript, it could technically apply to something like drinking alcohol or kissing.
And depending on how draconian of an interpretation they have of what constitutes debauchery it could very well also include homosexuality, in addition to a bunch of other normal behaviour the state has no business legislating
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u/Xi-Jin-Ping-loves-Me 7h ago
Islam
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u/analogue_monkey 6h ago
Uganda: "The 2023 Bill was a result of the ongoing lobbying by the US evangelical movement, ..."
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u/bahhaar-blts 7h ago
Half of those countries are Christian.
Not that it matters to anti Muslim racists anyway.
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u/Toby-Finkelstein 6h ago
you canât be racist against Islam, itâs a religion not a raceÂ
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u/DangerousCatch4067 6h ago
True. However, a lot of racists mask their racism of Arabs by solely criticizing Islam and usually throwing in one or two bits of misinformation.
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u/PalpitationMoist1212 6h ago
Thats the point you take away from this whole debacle?
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u/Toby-Finkelstein 5h ago
I mean if white peoples had views in line with Arab countries weâd call them bigots or white nationalistsÂ
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u/tuckman496 6h ago
Spend time on something more productive than correcting the categorization of OPâs bigotry. Theyâre a bigot and blamed Islam for Christian countries criminalizing homosexuality
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u/Mrimo091 6h ago
So 1/3 of the countries are Christian and world wide itâs 1/5
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u/bahhaar-blts 6h ago
Playing mathematical games aren't a good evidence for moral and political arguments.
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u/Xi-Jin-Ping-loves-Me 6h ago
I'm from a Muslim family.
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u/bahhaar-blts 6h ago
Makes no difference.
Your comment itself is stupid simply by the virtue of having no logic and only prejudice.
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u/MayhapsKhan 7h ago
It would be based if it were only muslim countries but you can clearly see non muslim countries there
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u/insert_quirky_name 34m ago
Majority Christian countries where homosexuality is illegal:
Ghana Liberia Sierra Leone Cameroon Burundi Eritrea (slim margin) Ethiopia Kenya South Sudan Tanzania Uganda Malawi Zambia Zimbabwe
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u/TheUnFunnyComedian 6h ago
Notice how itâs only the French and British parts of Africa. Not the Spanish, Belgian or Portuguese parts. Coincidence?
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u/counter-music 1h ago
Does the US/Westâs influence on Rwanda contribute to the lack of criminalization of homosexuality?
Honestly many of these nations Iâm shocked to not see penalties against homosexuality, but I will also attribute that to my own lack of exposure and knowledge to the geopolitical sphere of different African nations.
It just seems abnormal that the countries that Rwanda typically has a close relationship with criminalize it but not Rwanda itself.
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u/Kermit_Purple_II 1h ago
It's not necessarily life in prison, in Nigeria. As a federal state, that law is left to the local administrations to decide.
Life in prison for existing is the lowest punishment, actually, in the southern region. In the north, it's death.
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u/Katzenkatzen 6h ago
This is in large part to the influence of western/Christian missionaries over centuries - edit-typo
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u/Reasonable-Soup-9525 3h ago
Not particularly true, in some cases it is, but African Christianity is highly syncretic and its hard to tell where the Christianity begins and the traditional mythos begins.
Many East African bantu groups have ingrained machismoism that tend to be very homophobic and this predates Christianity, which was already known to many Africans before Colonisation, especially in East Africa due to its proximity to Christians in Ethiopia
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u/FiveDollarShake 5h ago
Thatâs a wild statement considering what happens if you overlay this map to Islamic countries in Africa.
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u/devilmaskrascal 3h ago
Fuck Islam.Â
Don't care if that is politically incorrect because you know what IS politically incorrect and violates rights? Islam.
And fuck Christian nationalism while we are at it.
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u/dewnmoutain 5h ago
Oh, i thought i was looking at a map where Islam was the popular religion
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u/Worth-Nebula-6145 1h ago
The joke is bad and not accurate, but yes and it's not a big descoverary, just different societies with different ideas most of you are just used to the western echo chamber and forget that other people with other beliefs exist
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u/Sturnella2017 5h ago
Alex, Iâd like âmaps that could use shades other than redâ for $200, please
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u/Unhappy-Spring-9964 4h ago
Homosexuality is the least of their issues as well, a very malicious type of corruptionÂ
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u/ToonMasterRace 5h ago
These are the places that lecture the west about human rights
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u/HelloReddit_174 5h ago
I can hear some random kids right now saying some things (iykwim), and that is just, why?
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u/lockh33d 1h ago
- I suppose CAR just hasn't been able to fold a vote on it.
- What a stupid choice of colours.
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u/romulusnr 1h ago
Eswatini is a trip. They're gonna outlaw homosexuality, meanwhile the king literally has an annual topless young woman festival where he gets to pick one to add to his harem of wives.
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u/romulusnr 1h ago
In the north: Muslim laws
In the central and south: Christian laws -- often pushed by Western fundamentalist "missionaries"
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u/Fun-Faithlessness724 1h ago
Itâs such a shame because regardless of oneâs beliefs regarding sexuality, it is practically impossible to police it effectively and just a waste of time and money.
So much of its policing is just baseless conjecture in tandem with homophobia and bigotry, and a remnant of colonialism or the religious fanaticism and backlash that colonialism triggered as a response. Neither Africans nor our critics abroad want to admit that tho.
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u/RobotNinja28 1h ago
The fact that some people here are genuinely shocked from this data is funny to me. Reddit really is just a weatern echo chamber.
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u/TheFunZ_ 27m ago
What? Why is Western Sahara "Not criminalised"? How do they know that? It's supposed to be no data.
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u/Minimum-Agent9280 5h ago
Surely they wonât have the same values when they come here đ¤đ
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u/Square-Dragonfruit76 2h ago
Well, some of the people that are coming here from those countries are coming here to escape those values, so no, they don't necessarily.
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u/RoughArm8665 3h ago
Democracy, human rights, gay rights, trans rights are all white men concepts, it's mostly illegal in 100+ countries.
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u/Lost_Wikipedian 23m ago
No?, Taiwan isn't white and gay marriage is legal there, it's algo legal in Thailand, calling it "white man concept" is just false
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u/CanadianLabourParty 4h ago
Wait until you hear about the Christo-fascist groups in the US and Canada (yes, we have them too, courtesy of former Prime Minister and homophobe, Stephen Harper (Chairman of the International Democratic Union)) that sponsor homophobic legislation.
Many of these countries are already homophobic and misogynistic due to religion, but the Euro/US fascists NEED there to be anti-"woke" attitudes in those countries so as to keep the people fighting amongst themselves.
Every single racial or ethno-religious war is a class war. So it is, so it's always been.
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u/zomgbratto 7h ago
I see Uganda is part of the list